West Country Independents

[TheGrandWazoo]

Nor did cheaper fares work on the 14 versus 4 in Bath. I guess customers in the West of England are less price sensitive and would rather have the flexibility or late night journeys and a decent Sunday service.

Maybe, if Wessex provided a service during all the hours that First does, price could become a differentiator.

Wessex have gone for routes that (IMHO) are better for cash fares rather than ENCTS. It does mean you've a chance of making decent money on fares but you have to break the loyalty to the incumbent (as opposed to ENCTS for whom the first bus that arrives is fine). First have done a decent job with roping people in with m-tickets and other "bundling" plus the better service provision on Eve/Sun.

The 90 is a very strange service to go for. I recognise the possible synergy with the 51. However, it's against a fairly frequent service with modern vehicles and through an area with higher levels of ENCTS and some real social challenges, plus it will likely be massively affected by Metrobus. I'd only have been more surprised if Wessex had registered the 36!!!

 

[winston270twm]

Wessex have gone for routes that (IMHO) are better for cash fares rather than ENCTS. It does mean you've a chance of making decent money on fares but you have to break the loyalty to the incumbent (as opposed to ENCTS for whom the first bus that arrives is fine). First have done a decent job with roping people in with m-tickets and other "bundling" plus the better service provision on Eve/Sun.

The 90 is a very strange service to go for. I recognise the possible synergy with the 51. However, it's against a fairly frequent service with modern vehicles and through an area with higher levels of ENCTS and some real social challenges, plus it will likely be massively affected by Metrobus. I'd only have been more surprised if Wessex had registered the 36!!!

I can't comment on the choice of route as I don't know the area, at the end of the day, Wessex need to find alternative work for the buses at Avonmouth. First have been intent on pushing them out of Bristol by taking tendered routes commercial & getting back in with the Universities. Had they left Wessex to the tendered & Unviersity contracts, Wessex wouldn't have been interested in starting new commercial routes against First. First are dishing it out, so they need expect to also be on the receiving end.

 

[THarris123]

I can't comment on the choice of route as I don't know the area, at the end of the day, Wessex need to find alternative work for the buses at Avonmouth. First have been intent on pushing them out of Bristol by taking tendered routes commercial & getting back in with the Universities. Had they left Wessex to the tendered & Unviersity contracts, Wessex wouldn't have been interested in starting new commercial routes against First. First are dishing it out, so they need expect to also be on the receiving end.

Yes well apparently the alternative work for Avonmouth will be all of the Bath work, well apart from certain services that are being dropped.

Of course the other alternative is to give up, which if I was Wessex I really would consider doing at the rate they are going. Webberbus proved that competing against First on many services doesn't work. They've lost a lot of work and if they are to keep going they a) need to change direction, b) change their management and c) start running on routes that First have given up on (e.g. 16, 17, 18, etc). Why not run an express service competing against X7 running from Bristol to Cribbs Causeway, then run a service from Cribbs to Bath, which runs along the current X5 route to Parkway, then 16 to Kingswood, then 17 to Keynsham, then 38 to Bath. There are endless choices and opportunities that they could go for, but they seem keen to focus on competing against First on routes that just don't make money. There was a very good reason why First could use single decks on 90 before they got the new Streetdecks. There's also a very good reason why First reduced the frequency at certain times of the day. It makes money, yes, but it certainly doesn't make anywhere near the sort of money that 1/2 make for First which Wessex have failed at competing against.

 

[freetoview33]

Yes well apparently the alternative work for Avonmouth will be all of the Bath work, well apart from certain services that are being dropped.

Of course the other alternative is to give up, which if I was Wessex I really would consider doing at the rate they are going. Webberbus proved that competing against First on many services doesn't work. They've lost a lot of work and if they are to keep going they a) need to change direction, b) change their management and c) start running on routes that First have given up on (e.g. 16, 17, 18, etc). Why not run an express service competing against X7 running from Bristol to Cribbs Causeway, then run a service from Cribbs to Bath, which runs along the current X5 route to Parkway, then 16 to Kingswood, then 17 to Keynsham, then 38 to Bath. There are endless choices and opportunities that they could go for, but they seem keen to focus on competing against First on routes that just don't make money. There was a very good reason why First could use single decks on 90 before they got the new Streetdecks. There's also a very good reason why First reduced the frequency at certain times of the day. It makes money, yes, but it certainly doesn't make anywhere near the sort of money that 1/2 make for First which Wessex have failed at competing against.

If I was Rotala, I'd try selling out to Stagecoach or Ratp Dev, to try and get as much money as possible.

 

[robertclark125]

If I was Rotala, I'd try selling out to Stagecoach or Ratp Dev, to try and get as much money as possible.

Can you clarify, do you mean Rotala selling Wessex to Stagecoach, or Rotala selling out as a whole (Preston Bus, Diamond, Wessex) to Stagecoach?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Can you clarify, do you mean Rotala selling Wessex to Stagecoach, or Rotala selling out as a whole (Preston Bus, Diamond, Wessex) to Stagecoach?

Selling Preston to Stagecoach may be tricky

 

[robertclark125]

You might think that, but Stagecoach had to sell Huntingdon depot in 1996 after buying Cambus, and bought it back in 2008, and the deal was cleared this time, so never say never.

With regards to Stagecoach, I do believe that they have a small number of routes which serve Bristol, but what exactly are these services, and are any of them commercial?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

You might think that, but Stagecoach had to sell Huntingdon depot in 1996 after buying Cambus, and bought it back in 2008, and the deal was cleared this time, so never say never.

With regards to Stagecoach, I do believe that they have a small number of routes which serve Bristol, but what exactly are these services, and are any of them commercial?

Yes but Huntingdon is a lot smaller and they were told to divest Preston because of their behaviour. Can't see authorities going back on that!

The services are all tendered from South Glos Council (84/85/86/620/627/628), Bristol City Council (77) and Gloucestershire CC (60/62)

 

[robertclark125]

How much vehicles are needed for the services that Stagecoach operate, that you listed?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

How much vehicles are needed for the services that Stagecoach operate, that you listed?

I think

84/85/86 = 3
77 = 3
620 = 1 plus the odd extra
60 = 1
62 = 2 but interworked with other stuff



627/8 are Sunday extras when others don't work

 

[g4mby]

84/85/86 = 3
77 = 3
620 = 1 plus the odd extra
60 = 1
62 = 2 but interworked with other stuff

Looks good to me. The 620 is definitely two vehicles Monday to Friday but only one on Saturday.

627/8 are Sunday extras when others don't work

A long day for one driver and one bus with a break of an hour early afternoon.

 

[swifty]

getting back in with the Universities. Had they left Wessex to the tendered & Unviersity contracts, Wessex wouldn't have been interested in starting new commercial routes against First.

You do realise how bad the services to UWE were right? The fact that Wessex got to the point of attending regular meetings, one that was even live streamed, to explain why services were so bad and buses not turning up.

Services to Bower Ashton were particularly bad with coaches having to be hired in by the Uni to get students onto campus in the morning peak.

At least First now provide a cheap, comprehensive network that provides the capacity and reliability that meets the majority of students needs that Wessex couldn't offer.

 

[swifty]

Nor did cheaper fares work on the 14 versus 4 in Bath. I guess customers in the West of England are less price sensitive and would rather have the flexibility or late night journeys and a decent Sunday service.

Maybe, if Wessex provided a service during all the hours that First does, price could become a differentiator.

Or the X40, the 3 and the Exp from Portishead to UWE services that were very lightly loaded.

 

[swifty]

Yes well apparently the alternative work for Avonmouth will be all of the Bath work, well apart from certain services that are being dropped.

Could always close Avonmouth and move the remaining work to Bath, it's not like the 3A/B/C/X and 51, 90 and the remains of the south Bristol services couldn't be worked from Burnett.

 

[winston270twm]

Could always close Avonmouth and move the remaining work to Bath, it's not like the 3A/B/C/X and 51, 90 and the remains of the south Bristol services couldn't be worked from Burnett.

Avonmouth is owned by Rotala, Burnett is leased as far as I am aware.

Rotala are also operating the Bicester shuttles from Avonmouth, that work is already some distance from the depot.

 

[winston270twm]

You do realise how bad the services to UWE were right? The fact that Wessex got to the point of attending regular meetings, one that was even live streamed, to explain why services were so bad and buses not turning up.

I'm not fully aware, as I'm based in the West Midlands. I can only go on what is posted on here and other online sources.

I'm aware Wessex were brought before the traffic commisioner for various failing / poor service & were fined.

 

[winston270twm]

Can you clarify, do you mean Rotala selling Wessex to Stagecoach, or Rotala selling out as a whole (Preston Bus, Diamond, Wessex) to Stagecoach?

Plus I doubt Stagecoach are very keen on Diamond Bus, they want the crown jewels i.e. NXWM which they unsuccessfully tried to get their hands on in early 1990's & again in 2009

 

[freetoview33]

I did mean Wessex which is if anything the Failing part of Rotala

 

[robertclark125]

I did mean Wessex which is if anything the Failing part of Rotala

Thanks for clearing that up freetoview.

 

[THarris123]

Looks good to me. The 620 is definitely two vehicles Monday to Friday but only one on Saturday.

A long day for one driver and one bus with a break of an hour early afternoon.

Welcome back. We haven't heard from you for a long time. Thanks for confirming this too.

 

[THarris123]

Could always close Avonmouth and move the remaining work to Bath, it's not like the 3A/B/C/X and 51, 90 and the remains of the south Bristol services couldn't be worked from Burnett.

That's what I thought they'd do, as clearly Bath work is doing better than Bristol, but as Winston states Burnett is leased. I believe they are looking to get rid of it.

 

[matt_splat]

That's what I thought they'd do, as clearly Bath work is doing better than Bristol, but as Winston states Burnett is leased. I believe they are looking to get rid of it.

if any one is a member of the west midlands forum could ask simon dunn what the situation is i know he use to always answer questions over there

 

[swifty]

SGBC had BX64FKV, a Levante 2, in full Megabus livery on the M25 this morning. Meanwhile Edwards has FJ11GLN in Edwards livery on the 040.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Not strictly in this realm but BaNES appear to have a new Playbus. Replacing the former Northern General Olympian (which was >30 years old) is former Arriva London VLW104 LG52DDL

 

[matt_splat]

Banes have got at least one 66 plate merc minibusses runnin about

Also i have been told by several people that the wessex 90 willl be ran by burnett depot and not avonmouth we will wait and see what happens if true it could be a successful route

 

[Marc]

Banes have got at least one 66 plate merc minibusses runnin about

df66aec? mellor/mercedes sprinter? saw it last week and didnt know whose it was.

 

[vicbury]

CityFox liveried dual door Scania currently parked on The Friary, Temple Quay. Parked next to a taxi however I cannot see if that is also CityFox branded.

 

[diffywood]

wessex star 90 timetable (from June 12th) now on traveline website basic daytime Monday to Friday every 12 minutes and Saturday every 15 minutes - first to alter timetable from 19th June

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

CityFox liveried dual door Scania currently parked on The Friary, Temple Quay. Parked next to a taxi however I cannot see if that is also CityFox branded.

Still advertised for sale on Nigel McCree's site - http://www.nigelmccree.com/index.ph...23-offers-invited-2003-scania-cn94ub-omnicity

 

[diffywood]

Crosville to face second inquiry hearing

http://www.thewestonmercury.co.uk/news/crosville-to-face-second-inquiry-hearing-1-5005574