West Country Independents

[TheGrandWazoo]

Didn't Wessex also win the tender for the 379 once upon a time until First commercialised that as well?

I've heard that said but I can't recall (though that doesn't mean it didn't happen )

 

[matt_splat]

yes it did happen the plan was for a service to run every 2 hours Bristol - Farrington Gurney and Norton the idea was for a fast service from Norton Radstock - Bristol and a Farrington service to link Norton Radstock First then decided that the masses of Shepton Mallett wanted to travel to Bristol so decided to do the 379 commercially

 

[Great_Western]

They were competing healthily for quite a while. However, Wessex were as complacent as First ever were. They could have secured the business but didn't and have been outmanoeuvred by First.

With the loss of the 16, and the other tendered work, I think there is a real possibility of Wessex exiting the stage.

Personally, I think First deserve a lot of credit in the demise of Wessex. Over the last few years the Bristol operation seems (albeit from a relative outsider) to be growing in to a tidy professional outfit. This seems to be much to the detrement of Wessex who just look a bit incompetant. A good example of this was the Yate service (X43?) That Wessex ran with MCV Evolutions, it was axed at the first sign of competition.

 

[g4mby]

This seems to be much to the detrement of Wessex who just look a bit incompetant. A good example of this was the Yate service (X43?) That Wessex ran with MCV Evolutions, it was axed at the first sign of competition.

It was actually the X27 and the MCV Evolutions didn't last long as they were replaced by B7RLE/Plaxton Centros due to passenger numbers increasing. I understand that Wessex considered operating double deckers on the route but the drivers didn't want them.

Wessex planned to continue to operate the X27 longer than they did as they circulated an improved timetable to better compete with First but instead withdrew the service a few weeks later which came as a surprise to many of the X27's regular users. From memory, Wessex's X27 ran alongside (literally) First's X46 for about four(?) months.

I think the main reasons for the X27's demise were:

1. Better departure times from Bristol on First's X46.
2. Very regular failures in service of Wessex's 30005 & 30006 which were branded for the X27.
3. First also had the 46, 47 and X49 which could be used to complete journeys whereas Wessex had nothing else.
4. First operated an hourly service on Saturday, Wessex operated two-hourly.
5. Wessex lost what little subsidy they had from South Gloucestershire Council when First started their service.

Before First competed with the X46 some passengers had to stand between Bristol and Winterbourne on the X27, double deckers were really needed. Once the X46 became established, the X27 at peak times was less than half full.

Yes, Wessex made some mistakes which led to the very early withdrawal of the X27 but had they not made those mistakes I think it was only a matter of time before they had to concede that First offered the better option for regular passengers and withdrew from the route.

There's no way two operators could ever survive on this route. Just look at daytime loadings on the X46 now. Many services operate with very few passengers at the Yate end of the journey.

 

[THarris123]

It was actually the X27 and the MCV Evolutions didn't last long as they were replaced by B7RLE/Plaxton Centros due to passenger numbers increasing. I understand that Wessex considered operating double deckers on the route but the drivers didn't want them.

Wessex planned to continue to operate the X27 longer than they did as they circulated an improved timetable to better compete with First but instead withdrew the service a few weeks later which came as a surprise to many of the X27's regular users. From memory, Wessex's X27 ran alongside (literally) First's X46 for about four(?) months.

I think the main reasons for the X27's demise were:

1. Better departure times from Bristol on First's X46.
2. Very regular failures in service of Wessex's 30005 & 30006 which were branded for the X27.
3. First also had the 46, 47 and X49 which could be used to complete journeys whereas Wessex had nothing else.
4. First operated an hourly service on Saturday, Wessex operated two-hourly.
5. Wessex lost what little subsidy they had from South Gloucestershire Council when First started their service.

Before First competed with the X46 some passengers had to stand between Bristol and Winterbourne on the X27, double deckers were really needed. Once the X46 became established, the X27 at peak times was less than half full.

Yes, Wessex made some mistakes which led to the very early withdrawal of the X27 but had they not made those mistakes I think it was only a matter of time before they had to concede that First offered the better option for regular passengers and withdrew from the route.

There's no way two operators could ever survive on this route. Just look at daytime loadings on the X46 now. Many services operate with very few passengers at the Yate end of the journey.

I thought Wessex also ran a 327 service?

 

[g4mby]

I thought Wessex also ran a 327 service?

To Yate? I only remember a Sundays only 329 which ceased when First renumbered its 327/328 or whatever to 46.

The 329 was interesting in that it used Marlborough Street bus station and served both North and South Yate, which very few other services have ever done, by doing a one way loop from Yate Shopping Centre via Chipping Sodbury and Shire Way and back to the Shopping Centre before returning to Bristol via North Yate.

I only ever travelled to South Yate twice on that service. On one journey the driver forgot to stop and on the other the driver forgot the route!.

 

[Martin2012]

I'm sure First were the ones to withdraw the X27 commercially which resulted in it becoming council supported in the first place. Didn't they say it was because of the recession?

Wessex won the tender about 15 months after it became supported and also took over the sunday 329 at the same time.

My memories of that 329 on a sunday were that you could not buy X27 tickets on it nor did they seem to use the X27 branded vehicles.

 

[g4mby]

I'm sure First were the ones to withdraw the X27 commercially which resulted in it becoming council supported in the first place. Didn't they say it was because of the recession?

Over the years First or Badgerline have operated an X8, X69, X29, X27, 327, 328, 329 and 629 on what is now or similar to what is now the 46 and X46.

I seem to recall that the X69 back in the 1980/90s had just three stops between Bristol and Yate, i.e. Hambrook, Winterbourne and North Corner - a true limited stop service. Each time the service was revised the journey time got longer with more stops added as it was routed via the back roads of Winterbourne and Framton Cotterell as is today's 46. I don't think the later versions of the service used the M32 which further increased journey times. By the time First withdrew their X27 it was hardly used past Frampton Cotterell due to the extended travelling time. Some journeys would take an hour just to get to the first stop in Yate which was Halifax Road/Oak Close. Today's X46 does that in around 35 minutes. I think that's the real reason the First's X27 was withdrawn.

Wessex did well with their X27 and the growth in passenger numbers was obvious hence the standing on peak time services and it was no doubt popular as it restored journey times to something that passengers had experienced several years earlier. I'm not surprised First wanted the X27 back but it took Wessex to show them how that route should be operated. In three years of operation I don't think First have made one change to the route between Bristol and Yate.

All recalled from memory so I can't guarantee accuracy.

 

[swifty]

Wessex rare workings today have seen a 51 branded DAF/Wright decker on the One and similar LJ04 LFA on the 505!!

 

[THarris123]

A revised 51 timetable has been submitted to VOSA today from Wessex

 

[Martin2012]

I was always under the impression that other than the terminus in Bristol, the route of the commercial X27 was the same as that of the supported one between Bristol and Yate.

Got a feeling the X27 and 327 between them replaced parts of X30, X40 and 328.

 

[Citistar]

I've heard that said but I can't recall (though that doesn't mean it didn't happen )

Both Wessex and Bath Bus Company were lowest bidders on the 379 contract in various tendering exercises. The Greater Good made sure that it never went to them, much in the same was as B&NES have made sure that nobody else gets the £60,000 a year which props the 177 up.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Both Wessex and Bath Bus Company were lowest bidders on the 379 contract in various tendering exercises. The Greater Good made sure that it never went to them, much in the same was as B&NES have made sure that nobody else gets the £60,000 a year which props the 177 up.

As I said, it was something that escaped me Other trusted posters as well as yourself have confirmed so good enough for me

As for the vagaries of the tender award system, you can say that; I couldn't possibly comment.

 

[ooo]

Wessex are changing fares on the 51

Following the withdrawal of bus subsidy on the 51 Service we will be introducing a new fare structure.

Our £1 Single will be increased to £1.50, whilst our £2 single will remain the same, as a incentive to travel in both directions we have introduced a new flat fare return ticket at £2.50 which is available at any point of the route. Our £3 day ticket has also seen an increase to £3.50 standardising this across the Wessex Star Network.

To encourage multiple day travel our Week (£10) and Month (£35) tickets have remained the same price and we have kept our child fare the same.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

[carlberry]

Wessex are changing fares on the 51

Our £3 day ticket has also seen an increase to £3.50 standardising this across the Wessex Star Network.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

Given the ever reducing size of the 'network' it would make more sense to reduce the £3.50 one to £3!

 

[swifty]

Noted a One One2 branded Volvo out on the 90 this morning, has this transferred to Burnett or could it have been on the Avonmouth board?

 

[Martin2012]

Service registrations have appeared today for the cancellation of Severnside Transport services 202, 615, 622, 623 and 626 from 4th September. Wonder what will happen to these services after this time and whether Severnside will acquire any other routes to replace them?

In addition registrations have also appeared from Stagecoach for the 62 from Bristol to Berkeley and the 77 from Bristol to Thornbury which they are taking over from First.

 

[DaveHarries]

Service registrations have appeared today for the cancellation of Severnside Transport services 202, 615, 622, 623 and 626 from 4th September. Wonder what will happen to these services after this time and whether Severnside will acquire any other routes to replace them?

In addition registrations have also appeared from Stagecoach for the 62 from Bristol to Berkeley and the 77 from Bristol to Thornbury which they are taking over from First.

All interesting. For anyone not in the know as to these routes:

- 202: Chipping Sodbury - Yate - Winterbourne
- 615: Thornbury Town Service
- 622: Cribbs Causeway - Thornbury - Chipping Sodbury
- 623: Severn Beach - Cribbs Causeway - Hallen - Westbury - Cribbs Causeway
- 626: Wotton-under-Edge - Charfield - Winterbourne - Bristol

I wonder why these have been given notice. I also wonder if Stagecoach will step in for at least the 622, 623 & 626 seeing as they already operate through Wotton-under-Edge and Chipping Sodbury.

Dave

 

[carlberry]

All interesting. For anyone not in the know as to these routes:

- 202: Chipping Sodbury - Yate - Winterbourne
- 615: Thornbury Town Service
- 622: Cribbs Causeway - Thornbury - Chipping Sodbury
- 623: Severn Beach - Cribbs Causeway - Hallen - Westbury - Cribbs Causeway
- 626: Wotton-under-Edge - Charfield - Winterbourne - Bristol

I wonder why these have been given notice. I also wonder if Stagecoach will step in for at least the 622, 623 & 626 seeing as they already operate through Wotton-under-Edge and Chipping Sodbury.

Dave

They're all SGCC tendered routes so either they've been retendered or withdrawn (or the company has got a new O licence number). I cant see Stagecoach wanting any commercially.

 

[freetoview33]

All interesting. For anyone not in the know as to these routes:

- 202: Chipping Sodbury - Yate - Winterbourne
- 615: Thornbury Town Service
- 622: Cribbs Causeway - Thornbury - Chipping Sodbury
- 623: Severn Beach - Cribbs Causeway - Hallen - Westbury - Cribbs Causeway
- 626: Wotton-under-Edge - Charfield - Winterbourne - Bristol

I wonder why these have been given notice. I also wonder if Stagecoach will step in for at least the 622, 623 & 626 seeing as they already operate through Wotton-under-Edge and Chipping Sodbury.

Dave

In theory the 202 could be replaced with a slight change to the 46.
623 only really needs to be a service from Henbury to Cribbs via Hallen.
622 could interest Stagecoach as well as the 626

 

[carlberry]

623 only really needs to be a service from Henbury to Cribbs via Hallen.

Do the people in Severn Beach who use it have to move to Hallen then?

 

[DaveHarries]

In theory the 202 could be replaced with a slight change to the 46.
623 only really needs to be a service from Henbury to Cribbs via Hallen.
622 could interest Stagecoach as well as the 626

I would have thought that the 622 wouldn't be too dificult for Stagecoach to do. Depending on how the TT is constructed any driver changes could be done by buses arriving at Cribbs Causeway going empty to Patchway (which, AFAWK, is where they are going to be operating the 77, etc. from) and being replaced with another vehicle for the next run to Chipping Sodbury.

Dave

 

[Rothy]

Do the people in Severn Beach who use it have to move to Hallen then?

I don't use it often but when I have done everyone else has been going to Windmill Lane or Hallen.

It doesn't even follow the advertised route - towards Severn Beach it stops on the opposite side of the road in Westbury to where it is supposed to, it loops around Henbury in the opposite direction and last time he went back through Henbury inbetween Hallen and Cribbs rather than along Berwick Lane.

 

[Lynford1976]

Being fairly new to buses in the 'Greater Bristol' area, what operators are there, other than First, Wessex and Stagecoach?

- Abus
- Buglers
- CT Plus
- Eurotaxis
- Severnside

Any others?

D.

 

[THarris123]

Being fairly new to buses in the 'Greater Bristol' area, what operators are there, other than First, Wessex and Stagecoach?

- Abus
- Buglers
- CT Plus
- Eurotaxis
- Severnside

Any others?

D.

Buglers operate all of 1 672 journey a day, so I wouldn't call them an operator anymore.

Citistar, Somerbus, Bakers Dolphin, Crosville, Bath Bus Company (RATP), an independent who runs the Bristol open top tour, Centurion (route 100), CT Coaches, Libra, plus a few others.

That's operators into Weston, Bath and Wells (the Greater Bristol area).

 

[freetoview33]

Being fairly new to buses in the 'Greater Bristol' area, what operators are there, other than First, Wessex and Stagecoach?

- Abus
- Buglers
- CT Plus
- Eurotaxis
- Severnside

Any others?

D.

Citistar, Faresaver (Bath/Wiltshire, but they used to operate into Bristol), Somerbus (Although they are cutting back), South Gloucestershire Bus & Coach still run school buses and 462.

 

[Martin2012]

Was 623 originally interworked with the 624/625 or has it always been run as a standalone service?

 

[freetoview33]

Was 623 originally interworked with the 624/625 or has it always been run as a standalone service?

Always standalone, it was previously the 5 and an additional trip on the 624, between Westbury and Severn Beach

 

[carlberry]

Buglers operate all of 1 672 journey a day, so I wouldn't call them an operator anymore.

Citistar, Somerbus, Bakers Dolphin, Crosville, Bath Bus Company (RATP), an independent who runs the Bristol open top tour, Centurion (route 100), CT Coaches, Libra, plus a few others.

That's operators into Weston, Bath and Wells (the Greater Bristol area).

I'm not sure what the criteria is if Buglers isnt an operator (daily public bus service) but Centurion is (school bus service). Also Bath Bus dont operate the Bristol tour, Rubicon sometimes hire in vehicles from Bath Bus.

My list for Banes, Bristol, North Somerset and South Gloucestershire is (Operators on Traveline or VOSA so some services may not be open to the public and it's always open to correction)
Abus Bristol
Acorn Taxis Rudgeway
AD Rains Brinkworth
Andrews Coaches Marshfield
Applegates Coaches Parkend, Lydney
Bakers Weston super Mare
Bath and North East Somerset County Keynsham
Bath Bus Company Bath
Bristol Airport Lulsgate
Buglers Bath
Carmel Nailsea
Centurion Welford
Cheltenham and Gloucester Cheltenham
Citistar Paulton
Coachstyle Chippenham
Community Connexions Cheltenham
Coombs Coaches Weston super Mare
Crosville Motor Services Weston super Mare
CT Coaches Radstock
Eagle Coaches Bristol
Eurotaxis Harry Stoke
Faresaver Chippenham
Filer Stanton Wick
First Somerset and Avon
First South West
Four Towns Vale Link/Severnside Transport Yate
Frome Minibuses Frome
Isle of Wedmore Transport Association Blackford
Libra Travel Buckland Dinham, Frome
Mikes Thornbury
Norman Keynsham
North Somerset Council Weston super Mare
R and R coaches Warminster
Real Coach Hire Codford, Warminster
Rubicon Classic Travel Yatton
Somerbus Paulton
South Gloucestershire Council Yate
South Gloucestershire Patchway
Stagecoach Devon Exeter
Turners Coachways Bristol
United Bristol Health Trust Bristol
Urchfont Community Bus Devizes
Wessex Connect Bristol
Weston and District Community Transport
Westward Travel Kingswood

 

[winston270twm]

Cancelled (Short notice)
WESSEX BUS LTD
Route: Avonmouth Station to Avonmouth Station via Avonmouth Industrial Area
Service number: SNF
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 31 Jul 2017

PH1066711/136 Cancelled
WESSEX BUS LTD
Route: University of Bath, Bus Station to University of Bath, Bus Station via city centre and Lower Oldfield Park
Service number: UoB
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 22 Sep 2017

PH1066711/138 Registered
WESSEX BUS LTD
Route: Southmead Hospital to Avonmouth, Mclaren Road via westbury on Trym
Service number: 11 (11A)
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 03 Sep 2017

PH1066711/137 Registered
WESSEX BUS LTD
Route: Southmead Hospital to Emersons Green, Sainsburys via Frenchay Hospital
Service number: 10
Service type: Normal Stopping
Effective date: 03 Sep 2017