West Lothian buses

[GaryMcEwan]

Not for ENTCS passengers. And maybe some West Lothian residents are happy to pay high fares for a perceived or actual improvement in service. (I can't believe Lothian aren't offering weekly or monthly tickets though). Lothian don't necessarily need to carry that many passengers - First Group in their current state might give up once Lothian have peeled off enough custom to put First in the red, even if Lothian are losing more.

Do you mean NEC? We don't have ENTCS in Scotland.

 

[overthewater]

Do you mean NEC? We don't have ENTCS in Scotland.

Spot on..

Not for ENTCS passengers. And maybe some West Lothian residents are happy to pay high fares for a perceived or actual improvement in service. (I can't believe Lothian aren't offering weekly or monthly tickets though). Lothian don't necessarily need to carry that many passengers - First Group in their current state might give up once Lothian have peeled off enough custom to put First in the red, even if Lothian are losing more.

Well I saw a few 275 coming in from Whitburn and I can tell those NEC preferred Blue bus. If first still has the commonter money pouring in why would you leave?

I can see the 27 getting cut to every 30mins and service 24 going back into Craigshill.

 

[GusB]

Deleted - post already replied to

 

[158756]

Do you mean NEC? We don't have ENTCS in Scotland.

Yes, same idea. If West Lothian is really marginal First might make a loss even if only pensioners, unaffected by fares, switch to Lothian Country - and in the current climate they're unlikely to want a costly bus war over the grand metropolis of Livingston.

 

[livi man]

they will get caught in traffic to

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Yes, same idea. If West Lothian is really marginal First might make a loss even if only pensioners, unaffected by fares, switch to Lothian Country - and in the current climate they're unlikely to want a costly bus war over the grand metropolis of Livingston.

Sort of, but NEC has less stringent rules as opposed to ENTCS.

 

[oldman]

I see that Traveline has stopped displaying FSE fares, which they were a few days ago.

 

[overthewater]

I see that Traveline has stopped displaying FSE fares, which they were a few days ago.

Could there fare changes on the way?

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Been on the X27/X28 a couple times within the city zone and it seemed very quiet. Mind you I’ve mostly been on in the middle of the afternoon/late at night so hard to comment on peak time. Still only been under a week so hopefully that’ll change soon

One thing I noticed yesterday was at the bus stop across from Sighthill Post Office (before saughton mains) the first bus numbers on the stop have been taking off the sign and a Lothian Country sticker has been placed over the Blue Bus sticker.

Must of been an error unless there’s plans to add another stop to maybe pick up more passengers along the Calder road route? though the amount of stops they use on that route already is good enough to be considered the fastest way to town

 

[livi man]

Lothian want to run the hole of lothians

 

[Observer]

Could there fare changes on the way?

No, they just showed the old prices until the new ones came in force. Probably just a mistake.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

How busy are the new services if anyone knows?

 

[overthewater]

Swings and roundabouts.. X27/X28 are busier but partly because there provide some of the only direct routes for passengers, and the 23 run late so it can hoover up the passengers to mid calder, again no40 can do that. 275 isn't that busy. people seem to be staying with Blue bus and the faster buses to broxden. Ive heard AM peaks are dead? Can anyone else confirm. LCB are far from doing a clean sweep, which alot of people believed would happen because well its lothian. Its all down to that price.. AND STILL go read the social media your see daily post about people wishing to switch but cant before of the price..

 

[livi man]

yes first are getting there share

 

[livi man]

seen a few lcb running into Bathgate not in service this afternoon

 

[David 90825]

Well the event Today at Livingston seem to have gone done well. The company was handing out Free tickets to try the service over the next two weeks, there have also flooded the area with timetables, and Lothian Country shopping bags. Also the reason the Ridacard was not introduced is there are plans to replace it with something more high tech, It will be interesting to see what comes next.

The company has made it clear it's here to stay, and only started the services because of the recent First changes which I'm not buying because some things dont add up... especal the no600. Maybe it was a bit from both sides. It was also highlighted more routes are coming with something being announced shortly with more coming in the months ahead.

The only clues are: Its within West lothian and it follows the old service numbers:

300/301: Town Circular
280: Livingston - Hospital - Deans - Bathgate - Armadale. ( ie the old 800 or current first 25)
284: Broxburn - craigshill - Livingston - West Calder
Of course the old 281 is current X28, while 27 was always Edinburgh - livingston then whitburn.

I know where my money is going.

The cynical ones among us, including me, will claim that discussions have taken place between Lothian & First Group about services in West Lothian. Given the lack of effective competition between the two over recent years I cannot believe that Lothian is expanding into Livingston & Bathgate without the approval and or tacit agreement of First Group. Perhaps First is wanting to withdraw from that area but cannot sell to Lothian due to competition concerns. However, West Lothian District Council's website item concerning the First alterations stated: "We will also be speaking to other local bus operators, to see if any are looking to take the opportunity to run additional commercial services as a result of First's changes." Perhaps Lothian has been approached by the council....
A few years ago First operated the South Queensferry to Edinburgh service. Stagecoach registered the service and First Group withdrew immediately. We may see the same in West Lothian.

 

[David 90825]

View attachment 50704




Email about company

Lothian County's operating licence is for 50 vehicles. No doubt they will want to have all 50 discs allocated as soon as possible. The new depot at Newbridge and the possible acquisition of premises in West Lothian will see the number of vehicles on the Operator's Licence increased substantially. In the Lothian Buses and ECB Discussion thread there is an item about PCV Driver Opportunities for Falkirk and Grangemouth residents, #378. I am cynical enough to believe that this is an area into where Lothian will expand.

 

[Journeyman]

A few years ago First operated the South Queensferry to Edinburgh service. Stagecoach registered the service and First Group withdrew immediately. We may see the same in West Lothian.

I suspect Lothian have been thinking about this for a long time, and have waited until they can make the maximum impact with the fewest resources. I reckon a few more well-placed routes would drive First off the road.

 

[overthewater]

Then you watch the storm of bad press when first pulls out and the commuter have to pay big increase in weekly and monthly tickets... This could all go sore...

 

[Megafuss]

Edit: I meant this post in the context of Lothian expanding out West

I recently spent a few days in Edinburgh and I am left with the impression they have a lot going on, almost too much to concentrate on.

Non of the City buses have contactless payments. The ticketing is now getting pretty complicated that it's not clear where I can use a £4 day ticket. Most of the buses don't have next stop announcements and the amount of Roadworks they are having to deal with is ludicrous.

On a positive note, I really like what they have done to give life to some of the old orbital routes like the 18 to make them Airport buses.

They are still better than most operators in the UK (the one I work for included). But as someone that has worked in the industry for many years it's the first time I have left Edinburgh thinking "yep, they have the same problems as the rest of us"

Did I just experience a bad few days?

 

[livi man]

Yes west Lothian weekly £18 that's under£2.60 for seven day travel. Edinburgh and Lothian £27 that's under £3.90 for seven days.

 

[livi man]

Maybe first are to cheap for passangers

 

[overthewater]

Did I just experience a bad few days?

No, the city buses haven't been great for a while, I have seen too many dity buses, and too many running late especially on the 26..

Yes west Lothian weekly £18 that's under£2.60 for seven day travel. Edinburgh and Lothian £27 that's under £3.90 for seven days.

Let compare;...
#####################################
West Lothian DAY ticket IE Just travelling around West Lothian:

* FIRST: Before 9am: £4.30 on Mobile and £4.50 on the bus. OR After 9am mTickets App £4.00
* LCB: £5

West Lothian Weekly ticket IE Just travelling around West Lothian:

* First: £18 on the bus or £17.50 on Mobile
* LCB: NONE...................................

Monthly ticket?
* First: £58- £60 for whole month...
* LCB: you can have Bundle of 20 Day tickets for £50... but its only for 20 days so your snookered if you want to travel at the weekend to the shops... But wait that a speical price and by the end of this month it shots up to £65...... more than first by at least £7 and you cant use it all month long...

###############################
West lothian and Edinburgh?

Day ticket:
First: £7 on the mobile or £7.50 on the bus
LCB: £7.50

Weekly
* First: £27
LCB: NONE...

Monthly:
First: £90 on the mobile phone, you get the whole month all days,,,
LCB: Special £95 soon to be £120.. you still cant use it all month long.


LCB you pay more and get less days...

 

[smtglasgow]

At the end of the day it’ll come down to whether or not First want to fight. Lothian are an unstoppable juggernaught at the moment, willing to take the hit from the start-up costs of this and their other new ventures. In the short term, LCB is going to rack up a huge loss, but they must think that a few years down the line it’ll all work out.

Obviously they see a weak Firstgroup and think they’re pushing at an open door, but I’d guess that First run a tight ship in Livingston, so if they choose to stay First might stand a chance. Incumbency can be useful, if only because passengers are creatures of habit. If Lothian can’t tempt the season ticket holders, it could all end in stalemate. In fact, you can imagine a scenario where Lothian scale back their West Lothian network but keep Newbridge for expanded services on the edge Edinburgh – thousands of new houses being built in the next decade around West Craigs and Gogarburn.

 

[Lothian_Bus]

Edit. Wrong Thread.

 

[overthewater]

Well it's a rea mix bag. First now have timetables in the shopping centre, unlike lcb who have failed to restock. First has also teamed up with Livingston football club becoming their offical transport plus given all fans 20% of all fares on match days.

275 just seems like a dead duck route, carrying handful of passengers. It's the 27/28 where lcb are making the effort, but again it depends on what bus appears first.

To me it looks like first are going to put up a fight... Hooray.

 

[Bluebirdscot66]

It's like a game of chess , who's move is it next

 

[atlantean]

I had a reply from LCB and about my dismay of no Ridacards on LCB for West Lothian and that First & One ticket offer best value. The reply from LCB was my comments will passed to the commercial team. But LCB believe they offer value.Are they deluded?

 

[overthewater]

Either there are deluded, and believe the OAP passes will win them day OR there going to treat West Lothian like a cash cow...

 

[livi man]

heard first west Lothian day ticket is going down in prize maybe the £2.00 ticket is coming back