West Lothian buses

[gingerheid]

It's brave to start trying to run competing bus services to West Lothian when the train is so excellent at the park and ride provisions more... in existence. I don't see any realistic way a bus can try to complete with 4 trains an hour that take under 30m to get to Edinburgh in rush hour, and if you live in a place that doesn't have access to the 4 tph then park and ride etc is always going to be tempting.

Obviously competition rules would prevent an attempt to link tram services and the 275, which is a shame. I have a feeling that in the absence of that what West Lothian needs from buses is services that take you to both your nearest station with 4tph and places that the train doesn't take you to (which is not central Edinburgh). It would be far easier to operate such a service than it would be with a normal rail link because the trains being so frequent means you can turn up at any time and nobody will worry about "what if the bus is late"?

 

[overthewater]

Actually this already happens No26 is every 15mins into Livingston north Train station. while the Bathgate local buses also go into Bathgate train station. Lothian need to try and go after new markets.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Eastbound they could go via roundabout then down Ric mains rd and in, so they are facing the correct way. That would add 2 minutes to the journey plus give pax a place to park for free and connect with buses such as 45.

I just can't see how there's a market for it. I don't recall first ever trying it and if they did it must have been a good 10+ year ago now. As I've said westbound it's a straightforward process. Unless they change the road layout to like they did at Ferrymuir then it won't happen

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

The Horseborugh 40 and X40 do it from the P&R towards St Johns via shopping centre. The road layout is not needing changed as it's simple to go around the roundabout just like the 40 and X40 do.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

The Horseborugh 40 and X40 do it from the P&R towards St Johns via shopping centre. The road layout is not needing changed as it's simple to go around the roundabout just like the 40 and X40 do.

I don't think you're getting my point, In order for the X27/X28 to properly serve Hermiston a change in the road layout is required. Going the long way round towards Edinburgh just isn't practical. Westbound could be implemented now, but why though? Is there seriously a market for it? The 40/X40 is partly subsidised (7k I believe), It doesn't compete with anything either whereas the X27/X28 is in direct competition with the 23/X23. First haven't served the P&R for a very long time/if ever because it's impractical. Faster bus for cheaper wins every time. For those reasons it won't happen

 

[overthewater]

Maybe if Lothian country might won the 40 one day? Anyways, If I was LCB with Phrase three I would go after Edinburgh - Maybury - Kirkliston - Whinchburgh - Broxburn - Livingston route.

 

[livi man]

It's brave to start trying to run competing bus services to West Lothian when the train is so excellent at the park and ride provisions more... in existence. I don't see any realistic way a bus can try to complete with 4 trains an hour that take under 30m to get to Edinburgh in rush hour, and if you live in a place that doesn't have access to the 4 tph then park and ride etc is always going to be tempting.

Obviously competition rules would prevent an attempt to link tram services and the 275, which is a shame. I have a feeling that in the absence of that what West Lothian needs from buses is services that take you to both your nearest station with 4tph and places that the train doesn't take you to (which is not central Edinburgh). It would be far easier to operate such a service than it would be with a normal rail link because the trains being so frequent means you can turn up at any time and nobody will worry about "what if the bus is late"?

what if the train doesn't run

 

[livi man]

Heard they are reviewing west Lothian services two months early

 

[tbtc]

A lot of the suggestions on here seem to be about Lothian competing with tendered services (following the 63 to Kirkliston, the 63 from Gyle/ Edinburgh Park to Hermiston P&R, the 40/40X from Hermiston P&R to the RIE/ERI).

Does this suggest that the remaining First services in West Lothian aren't really worth attacking? Or that there's nothing "different" that can really be done?

Given that the 275 already connects with a lot of buses/trams at the Gyle, I can't see anyone using it to Hermiston to connect with the X27/X28 (even if they did stop there).

Anything to be said for a beefed up 280 to provide a fifteen minute service from Livi South - Centre - St John's - Livi North - Deans?

 

[overthewater]

Heard they are reviewing west Lothian services two months early

First or Lothian?

A lot of the suggestions on here seem to be about Lothian competing with tendered services (following the 63 to Kirkliston, the 63 from Gyle/ Edinburgh Park to Hermiston P&R, the 40/40X from Hermiston P&R to the RIE/ERI).

Does this suggest that the remaining First services in West Lothian aren't really worth attacking? Or that there's nothing "different" that can really be done?

Given that the 275 already connects with a lot of buses/trams at the Gyle, I can't see anyone using it to Hermiston to connect with the X27/X28 (even if they did stop there).

Anything to be said for a beefed up 280 to provide a fifteen minute service from Livi South - Centre - St John's - Livi North - Deans?

Simple truth is Lothian hasn't walked in the door and taking all the customers, its having to really work at it. Plus its fare options are poor compared to First. The best way for Lothian to build up a customer base would be to strength its current network, and the tender service 40 would fit perfectly within the current lothian network. and provide extra competition over the 27/28 route. There must be students living in Livingston that travel to the uni? Also running a service to Kirkliston from Edinburgh city centre would not compete with 63 different markets. Beefing up the 280 to every 15min might not work either, Its take slower route and cost more that first.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

First or Lothian?



Simple truth is Lothian hasn't walked in the door and taking all the customers, its having to really work at it. Plus its fare options are poor compared to First. The best way for Lothian to build up a customer base would be to strength its current network, and the tender service 40 would fit perfectly within the current lothian network. and provide extra competition over the 27/28 route. There must be students living in Livingston that travel to the uni? Also running a service to Kirkliston from Edinburgh city centre would not compete with 63 different markets. Beefing up the 280 to every 15min might not work either, Its take slower route and cost more that first.

I have noticed more and more passangers passing on the X27/X28 I’m not sure if that’s saying much though but there’s that, I think all the ticket comments must of sinked in by now, Lothian seriously need to get the West Lothian ridacard, I’m sure folk wouldn’t mind paying for that if it covers a week/months worth of travels, I’m interested to see how it goes with the new routes, hopefully it’ll draw in more passangers and maybe help build up the network further for phase 3, I’m going to the door open day later this month and hopefully Lothian Country might tease us with something there, though I doubt it.

I think the 40 would be a good idea, however I’m not sure how it would handle the Bypass during peak times? im not sure how horseburgh deal with it tbh, but it would be good considering how it also links Ratho with Hermiston and Livingston, we can only see

 

[Darklord8899]

From yesterday's, sorry, today's (NP2194 18th Sep) N&P:
Section 3.4 – Applications to Vary Existing Services Granted Under Short Notice
PM0000923/335 FIRST SCOTLAND EAST LTD, CARMUIRS HOUSE, 300 STIRLING ROAD, LARBERT, FK5 3NJ Operating between Livingston North Station and Bathgate, South Bridge Street given service number 26 effective from 17 September 2018. To amend Route and Stopping Places.

Not that long since WL changes came into effect....
Anyone know the reason behind this change?

 

[livi man]

Lothian should leave the wee company's that get the council contacts ie the 40 peoples jobs at risk

 

[livi man]

But the way the council works who knows they will be country's ass we will see how they ask for the Christmas work time frist drivers get a break

 

[overthewater]

Lothian should leave the wee company's that get the council contacts ie the 40 peoples jobs at risk

The passenger dont like them, or the 31, Break down. Surly the driver could go to Lothian?

 

[livi man]

Lothian has got all the drivers they are going to get from first the rest are loyal to first

 

[In Focus]

From yesterday's, sorry, today's (NP2194 18th Sep) N&P:
Section 3.4 – Applications to Vary Existing Services Granted Under Short Notice
PM0000923/335 FIRST SCOTLAND EAST LTD, CARMUIRS HOUSE, 300 STIRLING ROAD, LARBERT, FK5 3NJ Operating between Livingston North Station and Bathgate, South Bridge Street given service number 26 effective from 17 September 2018. To amend Route and Stopping Places.

Not that long since WL changes came into effect....
Anyone know the reason behind this change?

It will turn the 26 service into basically a circular in both directions, if required, which would bring back the link between Livingston Howden St Johns ladywell and Knightsridge to Bathgate if I'm reading the new registration properly .

 

[In Focus]

First or Lothian?



Simple truth is Lothian hasn't walked in the door and taking all the customers, its having to really work at it. Plus its fare options are poor compared to First. The best way for Lothian to build up a customer base would be to strength its current network, and the tender service 40 would fit perfectly within the current lothian network. and provide extra competition over the 27/28 route. There must be students living in Livingston that travel to the uni? Also running a service to Kirkliston from Edinburgh city centre would not compete with 63 different markets. Beefing up the 280 to every 15min might not work either, Its take slower route and cost more that first.

Lothian are lifting very little and certainly no where near what they would have expected. The West Lothian public are sticking to the 25 route ,the 21 is popular , 22 not so but expect changes to return to St johns soon , 23 is holding up well against x27 and x28 ,24 ,25 are easily keeping the 275 at bay , 26 has issues that should be resolved with new registration, 27 is abject failure and will definitely need a serious rethink .
As for LCB 2 new services 280 will toil to take people for smaller operators never mind First,and 287 is a disaster and not sure even why someone would think that's going to ever work .

 

[overthewater]

It will turn the 26 service into basically a circular in both directions, if required, which would bring back the link between Livingston Howden St Johns ladywell and Knightsridge to Bathgate if I'm reading the new registration properly .

It doesn't seem to be like that? There is no new timetable or announcement on its website? must be staying the same but have a minor change? Maybe it been taken out of the car park?

Lothian are lifting very little and certainly no where near what they would have expected. The West Lothian public are sticking to the 25 route ,the 21 is popular , 22 not so but expect changes to return to St johns soon , 23 is holding up well against x27 and x28 ,24 ,25 are easily keeping the 275 at bay , 26 has issues that should be resolved with new registration, 27 is abject failure and will definitely need a serious rethink .
As for LCB 2 new services 280 will toil to take people for smaller operators never mind First,and 287 is a disaster and not sure even why someone would think that's going to ever work .

Simple fact is, its fare are just above what the public are wishing to pay. I do get the feeling Lothian wishes to treat West Lothian like a cash cow. £120 for only 20 days out of 30 days travel is crap. I would NOT rule out 287 just yet....

 

[In Focus]

It doesn't seem to be like that? There is no new timetable or announcement on its website? must be staying the same but have a minor change? Maybe it been taken out of the car park?

Possibly as it never actually went in due to the parking of cars.Not sure who ever thought that was a possibility in such a small car park !! It services the stops on Livingston North Road just outside Station .

It doesn't seem to be like that? There is no new timetable or announcement on its website? must be staying the same but have a minor change? Maybe it been taken out of the car park?



Simple fact is, its fare are just above what the public are wishing to pay. I do get the feeling Lothian wishes to treat West Lothian like a cash cow. £120 for only 20 days out of 30 days travel is crap. I would NOT rule out 287 just yet....

Simple fact is, its fare are just above what the public are wishing to pay. I do get the feeling Lothian wishes to treat West Lothian like a cash cow. £120 for only 20 days out of 30 days travel is crap. I would NOT rule out 287 just yet....

Wrong side of road for Blackburn , Tesco, Railway station , Wester Inch Impassable at school times ,seafield already serviced by so much including 275 , Kirkton almost a ghost site (sky apart ) ethicon and Lloyds gone . Can't see it working .

 

[overthewater]

Wrong side of road for Blackburn , Tesco, Railway station , Wester Inch Impassable at school times ,seafield already serviced by so much including 275 , Kirkton almost a ghost site (sky apart ) ethicon and Lloyds gone . Can't see it working .

Lothian are not going after the Tesco customers I also think there looking at a route to replace 275. If Kirkton a ghost site out side peak time then why is first going via it every 30mins?

 

[In Focus]

Lothian are not going after the Tesco customers I also think there looking at a route to replace 275. If Kirkton a ghost site out side peak time then why is first going via it every 30mins?

Blackburn is the main point off the 287 they've totally missed that and Tesco shop/ Kaim Park/ train station are connection points for Blackburn and Seafield why would you miss them to tackle the obstacle course that is Wester Inch ?
Think First are just using Kirkton as quicker route to Centre , 10 years to late for any operators to think their is massive passenger loadings in that part of livingston just now ! Perhaps a big firm will take up the empty sites of Lloyds ,Ethicon or Centres , but I doubt it .

 

[In Focus]

Blackburn is the main point off the 287 they've totally missed that and Tesco shop/ Kaim Park/ train station are connection points for Blackburn and Seafield why would you miss them to tackle the obstacle course that is Wester Inch ?
Think First are just using Kirkton as quicker route to Centre , 10 years to late for any operators to think their is massive passenger loadings in that part of livingston just now ! Perhaps a big firm will take up the empty sites of Lloyds ,Ethicon or Centres , but I doubt it .

#Centrex not centres !!

 

[TheEastCoaster]

As for LCB 2 new services 280 will toil to take people for smaller operators never mind First,and 287 is a disaster and not sure even why someone would think that's going to ever work .

Let’s not jump to haste with the 287, it’s not a bad call linking Bathgate and Seafield to make changing over to a 275 easier than just taking a X27/28 to Livingston, it’s also faster, Plus Wester Inch itself is not served by First so one point to Lothian for serving a small local area, also more of Livingston is covered with these two routes. The North, Deans South, ASDA and West Lothian college, sure it’s not every corner but you got to start somewhere I suppose, the 280 seems like a much faster Livingston to Bathgate route compared to the X27/X28, glad they extended it to serve Armadale and Blackridge, bit cheeky how they added a new farezone to the last village I must admit but I guess it’s so folk would buy daytickets instead for better value. £5 for just West Lothian seems perfectly fine, it’s just like East Lothian on that regard.

Hopefully next time they’ll tackle the actually Livingston village with West Calder and Fauldhouse following it.

 

[In Focus]

Let’s not jump to haste with the 287, it’s not a bad call linking Bathgate and Seafield to make changing over to a 275 easier than just taking a X27/28 to Livingston, it’s also faster, Plus Wester Inch itself is not served by First so one point to Lothian for serving a small local area, also more of Livingston is covered with these two routes. The North, Deans South, ASDA and West Lothian college, sure it’s not every corner but you got to start somewhere I suppose, the 280 seems like a much faster Livingston to Bathgate route compared to the X27/X28, glad they extended it to serve Armadale and Blackridge, bit cheeky how they added a new farezone to the last village I must admit but I guess it’s so folk would buy daytickets instead for better value. £5 for just West Lothian seems perfectly fine, it’s just like East Lothian on that regard.

Hopefully next time they’ll tackle the actually Livingston village with West Calder and Fauldhouse following it.

Only time will tell I guess , but although First don't serve Wester Inch for the very reasons I added , EM Horsburgh run a WL council rendered service around it with a small bus!
Blackridge will reap next to nothing , Armadale has a host of buses already,Falside has a scheme bus so not sure these are the Golden egg LCB are seeking ,however as with all competitive markets the public shall determine if they are to be successful or not .

 

[overthewater]

First dont serve western inch because it requires new resources.

 

[In Focus]

First dont serve western inch because it requires new resources.

Safety and unsuitable fleet for that area (as LCB are about to find out ). Also EM horsburgh have a service in that area.

 

[overthewater]

There have 3 per hour via that route so there must be some demand?

 

[In Focus]

There have 3 per hour via that route so there must be some demand?

Would they have that if it wasn't Council Tendered, I highly doubt commercially that would be the case .

 

[herb21]

Odd question, And apologies if it has been discussed, but why are Lothian running some of their buses in White? Are they going to switch them or route brand them? White seems an odd choice otherwise.