West Lothian buses

[goldisgood]

I’ve not seen the letter gold is good , I trust you are a fellow employee? That’s just what I’ve heard on the jungle drums my comments are just my opinion not based on hard facts

It was posted earlier in the thread, I've posted it below again. Comment 212.

View attachment 50704

 

[Driver362]

Ahh I see , was this a public statement I.e ment for the public,or a internal memo for depot staff , either way it kinda backs up what I’ve heard and posted , thanks for re posting

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Ahh I see , was this a public statement I.e ment for the public,or a internal memo for depot staff , either way it kinda backs up what I’ve heard and posted , thanks for re posting

From what I heard this was an internal email sent to all staff

 

[Driver362]

I mustn’t have been on the list

 

[herb21]

Living in South Queensferry since the end of April I have to say the usage on the 43 has from my observations really increased in the last few months and it competes well with the train. If you need to get to anywhere in the west end of the city, unless you live right by Dalmeny Station you often don't lose much more than 10 minutes vs the train, but you save close to GBP 40 per a month for a season ticket and get the rest of the lothian buses thrown in. I do think there is definetly scope though to offer a night bus service combining the 43 and 41 as Queensferry Road is probably the only trunk out of the city without one and on weekend nights the last buses and trains are normally really busy, so demand is probably there.

Regarding the new West Lothian routes they really need to sort out contactless and monthly ridercards as the more complex pricing will be a serious put off and the lack of proper monthly option takes away one of great advantages Lothian haves, which is that they offer 1 price option for both your commute and leisure travel.

 

[Driver362]

Total agree Fair structure needs tweaked and contactless is a must

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

Balerno to Wallyford is around 22 miles and on the 44 you can do that for £1.70. For LCB to charge £4.70 from Boghall to Ricarton (around 15 miles) is a joke. If Lothian want to blow First out of the water, they do need to sort the fare structure, not just a tweak. I'm not suggesting they charge £1.70 for all journeys, but if they want to show First who is boss, and poach pax, they need to do something and fast.

Contactless should have been put on all LCB from day 1, but more so sorted some sort of ridacard out. I expected the ridacard with LCB premiem.

 

[oldman]

The 20 and 63 are council contracts, so they may not be able to move them to the LCB fare zones - I assume the contract is for standard Lothian fares. They could get round the problem with overlapping boundaries, which would stop the Tranent problem as well, but they don't seem to want to do that.

 

[TheEastCoaster]

Balerno to Wallyford is around 22 miles and on the 44 you can do that for £1.70. For LCB to charge £4.70 from Boghall to Ricarton (around 15 miles) is a joke. If Lothian want to blow First out of the water, they do need to sort the fare structure, not just a tweak. I'm not suggesting they charge £1.70 for all journeys, but if they want to show First who is boss, and poach pax, they need to do something and fast.

Contactless should have been put on all LCB from day 1, but more so sorted some sort of ridacard out. I expected the ridacard with LCB premiem.

If I was Lothian, instead of boasting the M Ticket bundle i’d offer discounted dayticket’s sepratly from launch, £5 instead of £7.50 would be a good discount bargain for city travel.

It’s not so much the fare structure because I understand why they wanted to mirror East Coast for consistency, it’s so much more the zones, I know most folk think differently

Like said above I think if they altered the CityWest zone it would be perfect, it wouldn’t mean the 43 would change to a Lothian route, heck when the 39/40 went to ECB they remained unaltered in terms of fares, wouldn’t see why the 43 would be an exception, though i doubt it will happen.

Still, Lothian may have yet to reveal their trump card

 

[Darklord8899]

One of the councils paid for those journeys.

Ahh ok, I couldn't remember if those journeys were commercially run or not. Thank you for the information

 

[Driver362]

Hi guys , I was recently flicking through some pics of eastern Scottish on Flickr, which leads me to ask , are all new LCB route numbers ex eastern Scottish/SMT one’s ?

 

[tbtc]

Hi guys , I was recently flicking through some pics of eastern Scottish on Flickr, which leads me to ask , are all new LCB route numbers ex eastern Scottish/SMT one’s ?

Yes - same as in East Lothian (104, 106, 113, 124, 139, 140 were all long running Eastern Scottish/ SMT services, though not all are direct replicas - e.g. the 124 went via Willowbrae, the 106 was the traditional route from Haddington into Edinburgh with the 104 number reserved for journeys through to Berwick, the Haddington/ Dunbar express had the wonderful number X06 since in the days of roller blinds it was easier for drivers to change from 106 to X06 than to have to wind them round to show just X6!).

I was slightly surprised by the X27 number being used, since Lothian have an existing 27 (Silverknowes - Oxgangs) that has nothing to do with the former Eastern Scottish 271/ 27/ D27/ 27 (AFAICR X27 was only ever the peak version of those services but I may be wrong). Normally Lothian are careful to use only "X" numbers that parallel stopping services - hence using bigger numbers for some X-routes that don't directly follow regular routes. Would have made more sense to me if they'd introduced a half hourly X28 anyway - I'm not convinced that the hourly sections will be frequent enough to attract passengers - seems to make the new services more complicated than necessary IMHO.

The "traditional" 27 (Edinburgh - Sighthill - Livingston) was to Whitburn/ Harthill rather than Deans/ Bathgate, but First changed that to follow the 281 route through Deans.

As someone who was around in the Central Belt in the 1990s, the green buses and the services starting with two hundred are a nice touch, but I'm not sure how many fare paying passengers will remember them - Eastern/ SMT/ First mucked around with the West Lothian service numbers many times over the years - even when they ran parallel to well established Lothian routes (the 12 from Princes Street along the A8 to St Johns) - maybe Lothian decided that the service numbers from thirty years ago would resonate more than ones from just ten years ago.

 

[Driver362]

Well that’s what I was thinking, also thought it was kinda like green and cream buses your old route no’s , we’ll show you how to run them sort of thing , a two finger salute if you like ,a rubbing of salt into the wounds as it were ? When I did a stint at livi x27/8 were peak only the rest of the day all stops ,the current lcb stopping plan needs tweaking on the X section of the route in my humble opinion the stops are so far apart after saughton mains ,

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Well that’s what I was thinking, also thought it was kinda like green and cream buses your old route no’s , we’ll show you how to run them sort of thing , a two finger salute if you like ,a rubbing of salt into the wounds as it were ? When I did a stint at livi x27/8 were peak only the rest of the day all stops ,the current lcb stopping plan needs tweaking on the X section of the route in my humble opinion the stops are so far apart after saughton mains ,

Failure to serve the main stop at Sighthill eastbound is the biggest one that still baffles me as there would be some students who'd use it as a quicker alternative. The X27/X28's stopping pattern should just match the X25 between Burton's and Waverley (keeping the stops at Longstone and at Westfield House). Even in the town it doesn't match the X25 although I believe it's so it matches the first 23/X23 etc

 

[Driver362]

The explanation I was given was that it provides a quick alternative into town , there maybe an element of matching 23/x23 , but from experience and like your post points out , we’re running bye loads of pax at the stops we don’t serve , and stopping at ones where there are none/next to none , like you said you could lift 10/20 students at a time at the stop we don’t serve

 

[livi man]

that's if you turn at the park and ride to get back on time

 

[overthewater]

Maybe there expected more west lothian passengers?

 

[route101]

Used the x27 from Livingston last week , £3.70 single . Was not busy , first were only a wee bit busier

 

[livi man]

if they can't complete the route what is the point of messing people about

 

[In Focus]

Lothian have taken on a white Elephant with the 27/28 Routes in taking near double the time of First in getting to Livingston from Bathgate and Deans it makes no sense ,the 275 is lifting next to nothing Edinburgh Park and the Gyle hold no interest for people from West Lothian compared to Centre it's very poor!! Their new ventures with 280 / 287 are bizarre in the extreme, Wester Inch at times is more an obstacle course than a bus route and I seriously think they have underestimated these villages loyalty to Smaller operators SD Travel, Blue Bus etc do very well in places such as Blackridge ,Whitburn, Falside etc. Fast becoming a case of too many buses , too few passengers and the cost of LCB setting this up means it will be many years before they even break even if indeed ever at all and it may just end up like a rerun of 1993/94 for them.

 

[overthewater]

Lothian have taken on a white Elephant with the 27/28 Routes in taking near double the time of First in getting to Livingston from Bathgate and Deans it makes no sense ,the 275 is lifting next to nothing Edinburgh Park and the Gyle hold no interest for people from West Lothian compared to Centre it's very poor!! Their new ventures with 280 / 287 are bizarre in the extreme, Wester Inch at times is more an obstacle course than a bus route and I seriously think they have underestimated these villages loyalty to Smaller operators SD Travel, Blue Bus etc do very well in places such as Blackridge ,Whitburn, Falside etc. Fast becoming a case of too many buses , too few passengers and the cost of LCB setting this up means it will be many years before they even break even if indeed ever at all and it may just end up like a rerun of 1993/94 for them.

I have to agree with you on most of your points. 27/28 take far to long but does fill certain gaps left by First but again Is there a high amount of demand from Craigshill to Deans or Bathgate? or even Knightsridge to Bathgate? but 27/28 is carrying passengers, something the 275 is not. The main point of that was to provide a service to workers but does it go to South gyle or slight hill? No it goes to Edinburgh park a train station.. Blue bus has kept most if not all its loyal passengers on the Whitburn - livingston section. Mind you the 287 might be an interesting one as it will go via Wester Inch and give people new links instead of the crap 31 or 5. Lets not forget the bad fare options thus a good number of the passengers are just oap passes.... I wonder if we're ever see Phrase 3? or better still cut back with 275 getting shot gun with 287? Ie Bathgate -Blackburn - Sky - Centre - St john's - Ladywell - Broxburn - Gyle?

If Lothian wants to waste money then why doesn't it go after those peak time travellers from West lothian going into outer parks of Edinburgh?

 

[In Focus]

I have to agree with you on most of your points. 27/28 take far to long but does fill certain gaps left by First but again Is there a high amount of demand from Craigshill to Deans or Bathgate? or even Knightsridge to Bathgate? but 27/28 is carrying passengers, something the 275 is not. The main point of that was to provide a service to workers but does it go to South gyle or slight hill? No it goes to Edinburgh park a train station.. Blue bus has kept most if not all its loyal passengers on the Whitburn - livingston section. Mind you the 287 might be an interesting one as it will go via Wester Inch and give people new links instead of the crap 31 or 5. Lets not forget the bad fare options thus a good number of the passengers are just oap passes.... I wonder if we're ever see Phrase 3? or better still cut back with 275 getting shot gun with 287? Ie Bathgate -Blackburn - Sky - Centre - St john's - Ladywell - Broxburn - Gyle?

If Lothian wants to waste money then why doesn't it go after those peak time travellers from West lothian going into outer parks of Edinburgh?

I would say long term more people will go towards Livingston than to Bathgate form these districts, and Tesco is the only real employer of any note heading West towards Bathgate.
Again the 275 is no quicker than either First or Blue Bus to Livingston and considerably longer than firsts 25 or 24 heading East to Broxburn so no idea what benefit it has added.
The main issue in Wester Inch won't be competition it will be parked cars(almost a no go at School times) and the direction they are heading to Blackburn will require the public to be retrained with it completely missing railway station and Kaim Park ! The timing of these also leads to questions and surely just putting them 5 minutes ahead of First will only lead to First moving their times and so on , surely a 15 minute gap but I guess I'm being unrealistic to LCB real aim .
Phase 3 can only be West Calder area and again they will run into Blue Bus who have a loyal passenger base on their 71 service .
First new network is riddled with poor mistakes which LCB have obviously identified but I'd be amazed if First don't listen and rectify these in next few months and I'd imagine those changes will incorporate a movement in times .
Ultimate though is public shall decide !!

 

[tbtc]

The main point of that was to provide a service to workers but does it go to South gyle or slight hill? No it goes to Edinburgh park a train station..

If Lothian wants to waste money then why doesn't it go after those peak time travellers from West lothian going into outer parks of Edinburgh?

Doesn't the 275 serve The Gyle and various offices along Lochside Crescent on it's way to Edinburgh Park?

Isn't that giving a link from West Lothina into "the outer parks of Edinburgh"?

 

[overthewater]

it given some sort of a link to certain parts of Out edinburgh, but there plenty of scoupe to grab alot more, and people are still driving to the Ingilston P&R as it cheaper..

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I would say long term more people will go towards Livingston than to Bathgate form these districts, and Tesco is the only real employer of any note heading West towards Bathgate.
Again the 275 is no quicker than either First or Blue Bus to Livingston and considerably longer than firsts 25 or 24 heading East to Broxburn so no idea what benefit it has added.
The main issue in Wester Inch won't be competition it will be parked cars(almost a no go at School times) and the direction they are heading to Blackburn will require the public to be retrained with it completely missing railway station and Kaim Park ! The timing of these also leads to questions and surely just putting them 5 minutes ahead of First will only lead to First moving their times and so on , surely a 15 minute gap but I guess I'm being unrealistic to LCB real aim .
Phase 3 can only be West Calder area and again they will run into Blue Bus who have a loyal passenger base on their 71 service .
First new network is riddled with poor mistakes which LCB have obviously identified but I'd be amazed if First don't listen and rectify these in next few months and I'd imagine those changes will incorporate a movement in times .
Ultimate though is public shall decide !!

It would be a sad day if Lothian back out despite everything, it’s clear that after so long they were fed up of being pestered to come to West Lothian, but I hope they fix up a few things. The new services sound good, and phase 3 sounds like it could be open to other ideas like West Calder or Linlithgow, though giving it thought, would the 275 carry more passengers if it was extended to Edinburgh? keeping the same route for the Gyle/Edinburgh Park commuters but extended via Hermiston Gait, Broomhouse and West Approach Road? not the expected route mind you but would be easier than switching over to a tram. plus it would provide new links and more passangers on its routes, probably a little farfetched but just a penny for a thought

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

would the 275 carry more passengers if it was extended to Edinburgh? keeping the same route for the Gyle/Edinburgh Park commuters but extended via Hermiston Gait, Broomhouse and West Approach Road? not the expected route mind you but would be easier than switching over to a tram. plus it would provide new links and more passangers on its routes, probably a little farfetched but just a penny for a thought

It might do, however what I would do instead is extend the 275 to the Hermiston park & ride, and put the X27/X28 through there too, every 15 minutes, so they have a fast express bus going every 15 min in to city centre, but means you don't have duplicate running of another bus.

 

[Darklord8899]

Funny, i was thinking this morning, that there might be a possibility of extending the 275 to connect with the X27/X28's to provide link to city centre

I was thinking it could run from Edinburgh Park via 63 route to Bankhead, turning left to Big Yellow (connecting with X27/X28 there) terminating at the Fire Station. Return journies starting from Sighthill Gardens stop, then connecting with X27/X28 opposite Big Yellow and back to West Lothian....

 

[TheEastCoaster]

I’m actually surprised Lothian never brought the X27/X28 via the Park and Ride in the first place, seemed like a missed opportunity and I doubt it would of missed a minute off the timetable, maybe in a future service change perhaps

I could get connecting the X27/X28 with the 275 in Edinburgh though I think some serious timetable tweaking is needed for the express buses, and the stops, like at Sighthill eastbound which was already brought up, maybe an additional stop between Longstone and Westfield, perhaps Chesser? seems they might bring in more passangers that way

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I’m actually surprised Lothian never brought the X27/X28 via the Park and Ride in the first place, seemed like a missed opportunity and I doubt it would of missed a minute off the timetable, maybe in a future service change perhaps

It doesn't serve the park and ride as there is no logistical way of serving it. No right turn off the A71 from WL and that road is one way anyway. So Westbound it works perfectly fine, Eastbound it couldn't happen without a change in the road layout or unless you wanted to go the long way round

 

[SpeedbirdA350]

Eastbound they could go via roundabout then down Ric mains rd and in, so they are facing the correct way. That would add 2 minutes to the journey plus give pax a place to park for free and connect with buses such as 45.