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West Lothian buses

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FlybeDash8Q400

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I'm slighty confused about the numbering of the buses. Lothian 1-99, Airlink and Skylink have the x00 East Coast seem to have 101-199 (apart from X5, X7, X24) and LCB have 201-299... so why do we have X18, X27, X28? Why not X218, X227, X228? By keeping their numbers within their own "family" I think it might have been neater.
All of the ECB and LC numbers are based on the old Eastern Scottish/SMT ones. 18, 28 and 43 aren't used by Lothian anyway and you'd struggle to get 27 and X27 mixed up. People know the differences between them, eg 5 and X5, 7 and X7
 
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TheEastCoaster

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I'm slighty confused about the numbering of the buses. Lothian 1-99, Airlink and Skylink have the x00 East Coast seem to have 101-199 (apart from X5, X7, X24) and LCB have 201-299... so why do we have X18, X27, X28? Why not X218, X227, X228? By keeping their numbers within their own "family" I think it might have been neater.

I see what you mean though I think they want to try keep things similar as they are all part of one big expansive family. Like the new N28 isn’t called the N228 (despite the 228 not being a registered service) even though east coast managed to squeeze the N106/N124 in the blinds no problem. because otherwise folk will think there’s now a N6 or N24.

There’s also the 43 which is under LCB. the numbering is all screwy but I’m lead to understand the X services are only for the links to the city while the 200’s are for within West Lothian or to Edinburgh Park. I think that’s the only way to tell them apart
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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I see what you mean though I think they want to try keep things similar as they are all part of one big expansive family. Like the new N28 isn’t called the N228 (despite the 228 not being a registered service) even though east coast managed to squeeze the N106/N124 in the blinds no problem. because otherwise folk will think there’s now a N6 or N24.

There’s also the 43 which is under LCB. the numbering is all screwy but I’m lead to understand the X services are only for the links to the city while the 200’s are for within West Lothian or to Edinburgh Park. I think that’s the only way to tell them apart
A N6 would certainly be interesting, the day service is empty, I wonder what a night one would be like. Yea N28 is because Lothian don't use 28, whereas with ECB lothian do use 6 and 24
 

Darklord8899

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I'm slighty confused about the numbering of the buses. Lothian 1-99, Airlink and Skylink have the x00 East Coast seem to have 101-199 (apart from X5, X7, X24) and LCB have 201-299... so why do we have X18, X27, X28? Why not X218, X227, X228? By keeping their numbers within their own "family" I think it might have been neater.

Is it even possible to squeeze 4 digits or X### into the designated number space? (And still make it legible)
Also 27/28 was the service number First used for Edinburgh- Calders- Livingston- Bathgate route before it changed to the 23
16,17,18 and 19 have all been used in the past by Eastern Scottish, IIRC Armadale to Edinburgh was 16, incorporating the Blackridge journeys as service 19
I'm sure someoe will have all the info on what routes have had which numbers through the life of SMT/Eastern Scottish/SMT again/ First
I'm aware there has been several changes made due to marketing (the D Diamond services for example) and the WL express services got renumbered at a point in time as well:
X21 Edinburgh Bellsquarry
X22 Edinburgh Livingston Centre
X23 Edinburgh Livingston Deans
X24 (can't remember)
X25 (can't remember)
X26 Edinburgh Fauldhouse
X27/28 Edinburgh Bathgate via Sighthill and Calders
 
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overthewater

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16 was Glasgow - Airdrie - Blackridge - Bathgate - Broxburn - Edinburgh, so I have no ide where this 18 comes from, since the 18 when down to Whitburn.
 

Darklord8899

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16 was Glasgow - Airdrie - Blackridge - Bathgate - Broxburn - Edinburgh, so I have no ide where this 18 comes from, since the 18 when down to Whitburn.
Yes, the 16 was originally Glasgow-Edinburgh latterly only to Armadale
I thought the 18 was Whitburn, couldn't quite remember
 

In Focus

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16 was Glasgow - Airdrie - Blackridge - Bathgate - Broxburn - Edinburgh, so I have no ide where this 18 comes from, since the 18 when down to Whitburn.
The 18 im sure was an old SMT service that covered Edinburgh to Harthill / Eastfield ,ran similar route to 16 service but left Blackridge up Westcraigs Road to Harthill then along to Eastfield .
 

In Focus

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Is it even possible to squeeze 4 digits or X### into the designated number space? (And still make it legible)
Also 27/28 was the service number First used for Edinburgh- Calders- Livingston- Bathgate route before it changed to the 23
16,17,18 and 19 have all been used in the past by Eastern Scottish, IIRC Armadale to Edinburgh was 16, incorporating the Blackridge journeys as service 19
I'm sure someoe will have all the info on what routes have had which numbers through the life of SMT/Eastern Scottish/SMT again/ First
I'm aware there has been several changes made due to marketing (the D Diamond services for example) and the WL express services got renumbered at a point in time as well:
X21 Edinburgh Bellsquarry
X22 Edinburgh Livingston Centre
X23 Edinburgh Livingston Deans
X24 (can't remember)
X25 (can't remember)
X26 Edinburgh Fauldhouse
X27/28 Edinburgh Bathgate via Sighthill and Calders
Pretty sure the x24 was Uphall to Edinburgh express
X1 was Blackridge to Edinburgh
X2 was Whitburn to Edinburgh
Also had 12 /X12 service
X14 + X15 were Glasgow express buses
X33 was used at one point Fauldhouse to Edinburgh
All possible future LCB numbers by the look of it
Probably expect a 284 once West Calder phase appears as well .
 

In Focus

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The 18 im sure was an old SMT service that covered Edinburgh to Harthill / Eastfield ,ran similar route to 16 service but left Blackridge up Westcraigs Road to Harthill then along to Eastfield .
Or maybe it was 17 that service Eastfield and 18 went Whitburn !! Long time ago !!
 

tbtc

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I think they'd have been better starting off with the X18 (which fills a gaps that First don't provide) rather than the circuitous/infrequent X27/X28 ... or the (too long IMHO) 275... or the relatively short 280/287... it'll not compete with the train on time but a good spec of double decker should attract a slice of the market.

No idea why they went for X18 rather than X16 (even if we aren't worrying about the Armadale/ Harthill/ Whitburn extension), since 16 was the most used service number from Edinburgh to Bathgate (there was even a short lived extension to Lochend IIRC). But maybe the idea is that there's no Lothian 18 (now there's the 400 instead) whilst there may one day be an express to Oxgangs numbered X16? Seems unlikely though!

I guess the question is that, now they've ticked various boxes (Edinburgh - Livi, Edinburgh - Bathgate, Livi- Bathgate, Gyle - Livi, extensions to Whitburn/ Armadale/ Blackridge etc, Night bus) is there anything left to expand into? Is that it for the expansion? Three phases into it and they've not bothered with commercial services to Kirkliston or Loganlea, so will there now be a period of stability without any additional Lothian services? Or will First eventually reorganise and fight back? Or is it not worth fighting back against?
 

SpeedbirdA350

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tbtc, I think there is alot left untouched which they could go for (although I don't have a huge amount of knowledge about the area). IMO I think phase 4 will be the 275 extending to Harthill (it's about 1.5 miles to the service station and has a lot of houses from where the 275 terminates atm), X27/X28 getting a better frequency of every 20 minutes (depends on numbers though I guess) with a slightly changed route and a maybe new service via Fauldhouse. I do wonder about Bo'ness and Linlithgow, and I also wonder about rules regarding entering North Lanarkshire council area ie Shotts and what it would need to happen etc..

I guess LB will go where they think they can make money but at the same time, they do need to make sure it's competitive prices and this is one reason I think before we hear about phase 4, will we hear about the ridacard, pre-pay, or some weekly/monthly travel pass and most importantly, contactless payment options.
 

overthewater

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Its like there throwing more money down the drain... Its a joke, the whole network is a complete an utter joke, What is the end goal? I could do a better job but this is dogs dinner... N28 is madness when First already had N1/N2, 109 isnt charging so why isnt it not interlinked???
 

Jordan Adam

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I can't see the X27/X28 getting a frequency increase unless they plan to loose even more money, the only thing either route are good at is carrying fresh air.

It is interesting that Lothians Finance Director has departed, perhaps they don't have one just now and that's the reason they're wasting so much money? Ahh well us the innocent tax payer will bail them out...
 

TheEastCoaster

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I think they'd have been better starting off with the X18 (which fills a gaps that First don't provide) rather than the circuitous/infrequent X27/X28 ... or the (too long IMHO) 275... or the relatively short 280/287... it'll not compete with the train on time but a good spec of double decker should attract a slice of the market.

No idea why they went for X18 rather than X16 (even if we aren't worrying about the Armadale/ Harthill/ Whitburn extension), since 16 was the most used service number from Edinburgh to Bathgate (there was even a short lived extension to Lochend IIRC). But maybe the idea is that there's no Lothian 18 (now there's the 400 instead) whilst there may one day be an express to Oxgangs numbered X16? Seems unlikely though!

I guess the question is that, now they've ticked various boxes (Edinburgh - Livi, Edinburgh - Bathgate, Livi- Bathgate, Gyle - Livi, extensions to Whitburn/ Armadale/ Blackridge etc, Night bus) is there anything left to expand into? Is that it for the expansion? Three phases into it and they've not bothered with commercial services to Kirkliston or Loganlea, so will there now be a period of stability without any additional Lothian services? Or will First eventually reorganise and fight back? Or is it not worth fighting back against?

Yeah seems that they missed an oppertunity there, better later than never though and the X18’s announcement seems to be peaking folks interest, one thing they should of done was extend it to Whitburn to completely link it with Bathgate and Armadale. (Perhaps a future service change though). I can imagine they’ll use double deckers for this service and put the new single deckers on the 287

I think they are reserving the X16 number for that reason, (though an express through to Silverknowes seems more likely since the X15 covers most of Morningside), East Coast already took the X5 number so no chance we’ll see an express to Hunters Tryst in the future har har

I think in terms of Central services it’s pretty solid, four services to Edinburgh and two services within West Lothian, the network is expanding and I doubt they’ll give up now, I’ve noticed more people using the X27/X28 the past week so that’s a good sign, unfortunately all but two major areas are covered by LCB, I’m more baffled by Kirkliston than Fauldhouse. (I know First still have the 38 and that’s the reason they won’t venture to Kirkliston/Linlithgow) but right from the beginning all I saw were folk in Kirkliston begging for a direct Lothian service, Hoping they’ll save this for next year.

tbtc, I think there is alot left untouched which they could go for (although I don't have a huge amount of knowledge about the area). IMO I think phase 4 will be the 275 extending to Harthill (it's about 1.5 miles to the service station and has a lot of houses from where the 275 terminates atm), X27/X28 getting a better frequency of every 20 minutes (depends on numbers though I guess) with a slightly changed route and a maybe new service via Fauldhouse. I do wonder about Bo'ness and Linlithgow, and I also wonder about rules regarding entering North Lanarkshire council area ie Shotts and what it would need to happen etc..

I guess LB will go where they think they can make money but at the same time, they do need to make sure it's competitive prices and this is one reason I think before we hear about phase 4, will we hear about the ridacard, pre-pay, or some weekly/monthly travel pass and most importantly, contactless payment options.

If Phase 4 doesn’t introduce new services it would be better if they modify the existing ones, like you said extend the 275 to Harthill and the X18 to Whitburn. I could see the X27/X28 getting a frequency increase by 30 minutes, as I said above the services are getting busier so they are clearly being used.

I guess if Lothian was to extend into Harthill they could extend to Bo’Ness be unusual for them since they are technically not in the Lothian region, but then again Borders Buses run the 253 to England so stranger things have happened.

By god hopefully once they introduce a new ridacard and contactless after years of badgering on by the public everyone can be happy. I’m willing to bet they’ll announce something new when the year is almost over.
 

jb66

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I dont see the point in the 275 going any further than broxburn when the x18 starts.

Nobody is going to pay silly lothian country prices when a regular lothian bus serves ratho and newbridge. The handful of people who really need to go to Edinburgh park via bus could change at RBS and hop on a tram two stops.

If the objective of the lothian plan is to price first out the area they could duplicate the service to follow the 600 route once it hits uphall
 
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Darklord8899

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I have been giving some thought to the fares......
As the 20 and 63 charge standard city fares and the 43 accepts Ridacards at no extra charge (which I assume the vast majority of 43 users will have) and it's only cash fares that are charged higher, why not remove CITY west zone? It's current western boundary would be the new boundary for the city zone, thus bringing 43 into line with 20 and 63 without any significant revenue loss and would make the rest of the WL more financially attractive to the paying passenger? No?

So:
Edinburgh - Livingston: 2 Zones £2.70 (£1.70 with Ridacard)
Edinburgh - Bathgate: 3 Zones £3.70 (£2.70 with Ridacard)

Obviously there needs to be some sort of Ridacard for WL as well, but until such times, that was my thought for the fares.....
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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I have been giving some thought to the fares......
As the 20 and 63 charge standard city fares and the 43 accepts Ridacards at no extra charge (which I assume the vast majority of 43 users will have) and it's only cash fares that are charged higher, why not remove CITY west zone? It's current western boundary would be the new boundary for the city zone, thus bringing 43 into line with 20 and 63 without any significant revenue loss and would make the rest of the WL more financially attractive to the paying passenger? No?

So:
Edinburgh - Livingston: 2 Zones £2.70 (£1.70 with Ridacard)
Edinburgh - Bathgate: 3 Zones £3.70 (£2.70 with Ridacard)

Obviously there needs to be some sort of Ridacard for WL as well, but until such times, that was my thought for the fares.....
I've said get rid of cityWEST zone since the 43 started. The icing on the cake is the inflated price between Newbridge and Gyle
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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Oh Sorry I missed you saying that :oops:
But yes, it seems to make sense to me too.
Well that is an option, or you do the 1or2 zone ticket like ECB have, but given the fact the 43 only serves 2 zones getting rid of cityWEST is probably a better idea in this case
 

Darklord8899

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Also the council controls route 20 and 63 and have made clear the £1.70 fare...

Yes, the 63 and 20 (or the Ratho part at least) are council tenders hence why IMO they will remain with LB til tenders are renewed and of course remain with the standard LB fares.
 

herb21

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Although a lot of 43 users use a ridercard or buy a daily, the 2.70 single must make a difference for concession fares.
 

In Focus

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This new X18 service , just a pause for thought on buses from Armadale/Bathgate to Edinburgh, pre train SMT / Forst operated 5 service X1 (along M8) on route every AM and PM and operated 16/17 /18 which went this X18 route this serviced workers for British Leyland, Bangour Hospital ,Halls of Borxburn ,Marshalls Chicken factory ,Uniroyal tyres , Gogarburn hospital which beteeen then employed 1000s of workers, anyone notice something in common with all these workplaces? Train killed any chance of these remaining viable and with stations now in Armadale , Bathgate , Blackridge it's not got any easier.
This service X18 will only benefit Uphall ,Broxburn and as they already have 275 going as far as Gyle it will be the few who go further to City will this be enough to make it viable ,that the question.
 

Darklord8899

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This new X18 service , just a pause for thought on buses from Armadale/Bathgate to Edinburgh, pre train SMT / Forst operated 5 service X1 (along M8) on route every AM and PM and operated 16/17 /18 which went this X18 route this serviced workers for British Leyland, Bangour Hospital ,Halls of Borxburn ,Marshalls Chicken factory ,Uniroyal tyres , Gogarburn hospital which beteeen then employed 1000s of workers, anyone notice something in common with all these workplaces? Train killed any chance of these remaining viable and with stations now in Armadale , Bathgate , Blackridge it's not got any easier.
This service X18 will only benefit Uphall ,Broxburn and as they already have 275 going as far as Gyle it will be the few who go further to City will this be enough to make it viable ,that the question.

British Leyland - closed
Bangour Hospital - closed
Halls of Broxburn - closed
Marshalls - closed
Gogarburn Hospital - now RBS HQ
I'm guessing uniroyal tyres has closed too :p
 

overthewater

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Lets not forget Motorola. the only thing that is still on the route is Tesco but is that enough. Odd thing is X1 lasted even when there was 30min train service, and I remember seeing the 09am bus coming into edinburgh and it was full.

First pulled the old 16/ 20 for a reason people were not using it for the full route, how may people are really going between Broxburn/Uphall to Bathgate? I've seen the 29 and it's like 10 people? other times its hee haw...

Lothian are just not even trying now, its like here is a crap route and get on with it, It would make more sense if it went Via Ingliston park n ride, and allowing connection to the 200, especial if that was boosted to every 15mins. That would really help...
 

CM

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Lets not forget Motorola. the only thing that is still on the route is Tesco but is that enough. Odd thing is X1 lasted even when there was 30min train service, and I remember seeing the 09am bus coming into edinburgh and it was full.

First pulled the old 16/ 20 for a reason people were not using it for the full route, how may people are really going between Broxburn/Uphall to Bathgate? I've seen the 29 and it's like 10 people? other times its hee haw...

Lothian are just not even trying now, its like here is a crap route and get on with it, It would make more sense if it went Via Ingliston park n ride, and allowing connection to the 200, especial if that was boosted to every 15mins. That would really help...

Pretty sure Lothian, a company with YEARS of experience know what they are doing because if they didn't, then they wouldn't be here today. When Lothian started operating in West Lothian they had the sensible approach to heavily promote the new services via social media etc etc and even at local shopping centres. When was the last time First ever took that approach to promoting a new service? Probably never! If people know it's there, they will come and if they don't, they wont!
 

overthewater

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There clearly not in West Lothian. The routes are nothing special, its fares in relation to Full time usage ie the ones that buy Weekly and Monthly are being short changed big time., I dread to think what would happen if First pulled out tomorrow all hell would break out, and no one would look good, while Lothian will look like money grabbing gits. The buses are nothing special and keep on breaking down, with journeys being missed.

Lothian keeps on begging to share stuff on SM, but alot of people don't use it, First has also promote stuff on SM, A team even went to the shopping central to promote its service one weekend a while back which was clearly highlighted on this forum.. plus its timetables were put in the shopping centre.

Which bit of my post is silly? and Contributes nothing, the reply did NOTHING to evolute what I wrote, and then went off about its SM team, Actually that what Lothian has done, it made a post and told people to share, ie getting on with it.

Lothian are just not even trying now, its like here is a crap route and get on with it, It would make more sense if it went Via Ingliston park n ride, and allowing connection to the 200, especial if that was boosted to every 15mins. That would really help...
That explains why doing something different would be more helpful.

Lothian routes just dont seem like good ideas.
 
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CM

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Which bit of my post is silly? and Contributes nothing, the reply did NOTHING to evolute what I wrote, and then went off about its SM team, Actually that what Lothian has done, it made a post and told people to share, ie getting on with it.

I never said your post was silly, that was in reply to someone else who's post has since been deleted. Try reading things properly before accusing people of stuff...
 

overthewater

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I'm sorry for that, tip my hat. However that would now mean three posts + have been deleted from this thread over the past two hours.. Can someone explain this as this has caused confusion and issues.
 

Stef434

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Pretty sure the x24 was Uphall to Edinburgh express
X1 was Blackridge to Edinburgh
X2 was Whitburn to Edinburgh
Also had 12 /X12 service
X14 + X15 were Glasgow express buses
X33 was used at one point Fauldhouse to Edinburgh
All possible future LCB numbers by the look of it
Probably expect a 284 once West Calder phase appears as well .
your correct
 
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