Western Greyhound Fire and subsequent WG general discussion.

[richw]

Had a couple of customers asking when First were taking over as local rumours were suggesting closure is imminent (Monday was suggested). We've had nothing official

Some Western Greyhound drivers are getting very irate with these rumours on Facebook that I've seen.
On a plus side, every WG bus I saw last week had a working blind.
Several First bus drivers I speak with have the impression it may happen within a week from an internal notice.

 

[matt_splat]

lots of comments on facebook this morning suggest that there are issues with western greyhound services reports of non running this is on the wheres my bus page

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

lots of comments on facebook this morning suggest that there are issues with western greyhound services reports of non running this is on the wheres my bus page

Certainly looking like a good few issues, caused by being short of more drivers than they envisaged? You do wonder whether they might be better to pull out of Truro area and leave it to First? Concentrate on the St Austell, Newquay and North/East Cornwall areas

 

[richw]

I was in Truro for 2 hours this morning and not a Western Greyhound bus in sight. A colleague was late for work at 12 due to the bus detouring to Summercourt depot to change driver.

First had a bit of everything on the new routes. I noticed an Olympian on the 87, which will be interesting to see getting through in places on the route. I've been on a Solo that struggled to get through some of the villages!
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Have heard today from several different sources, 1 of whom is a driver, that WG were having staff consultations regarding redundancy today. Rather interesting for a company cancelling services due to staff shortages.

 

[LateThanNever]

I was in Truro for 2 hours this morning and not a Western Greyhound bus in sight. A colleague was late for work at 12 due to the bus detouring to Summercourt depot to change driver.

First had a bit of everything on the new routes. I noticed an Olympian on the 87, which will be interesting to see getting through in places on the route. I've been on a Solo that struggled to get through some of the villages!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Have heard today from several different sources, 1 of whom is a driver, that WG were having staff consultations regarding redundancy today. Rather interesting for a company cancelling services due to staff shortages.

Oh dear, how sad. Let's hope the keys are, in due course, handed to anyone other than Worst!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Oh dear, how sad. Let's hope the keys are, in due course, handed to anyone other than Worst!

I doubt keys would be handed anywhere were WG to fail, it's up to whatever other commercial organisation that wishes to register routes if they wish, or Councils to tender them if nobody does.

Neil

 

[swifty]

I've heard the DVSA did a swoop on Liskeard depot earlier this week and issued a few PG9s, resulting in a Carmel coach being used on services.

Anyone able to confirm?

 

[Rich McLean]

I've heard the DVSA did a swoop on Liskeard depot earlier this week and issued a few PG9s, resulting in a Carmel coach being used on services.

Anyone able to confirm?

Confirmed on Plymothain Transit

 

[robertclark125]

Just to clarify, this is WG's Liskeard depot?

Also, what are PG9s?

 

[lightning76]

PG9s are notices issued by "the Ministry" prohibiting a vehicle from being used in service until defects are rectified. They may be Immediate, ie the vehicle must decant any passengers and not be used until the fault is rectified, or Delayed, where the vehicle can continue for the time being but if the fault is found to be unrectified in the future then there will be consequences for the operator. Whilst the Ministry are of course entirely unbiased, it may be noted that operators who are generally rubbish will receive immediate PG9s, whilst operators who are ok but have made a lapse will receive Delayed ones.

 

[richw]

I've heard the DVSA did a swoop on Liskeard depot earlier this week and issued a few PG9s, resulting in a Carmel coach being used on services.

Anyone able to confirm?

I saw a Carmel Coaches bus operating the 594 yesterday. I just assumed that WG had obtained it from the closure of Carmel.

 

[trentside]

I remember that the "Ministry" used to be fond of turning up at school bus parks round us to catch out some of the local cowboys in action - I think on one memorable day, all of the vehicles that turned up at one school got PG9s!

 

[lightning76]

St Pauls Cathedral coach park is a regular favourite. As a rule they tend only to descend on bus operators "on suspicion", or information received, which doesn't look good for WG.

 

[LateThanNever]

I saw a Carmel Coaches bus operating the 594 yesterday. I just assumed that WG had obtained it from the closure of Carmel.

But as Carmel lost their operators licence for terrible maintenance it must have been 'operated' by WG. It is to hoped they inspected before they took it on!

 

[richw]

On the plymouthiantransit page, a number of comments are discussing that WG has been touted for sale at £1 with no interest. Of course at that price the buyer inherits the debt, but does this say something if it can't even be sold for £1?
I'm guessing First got wind of this and may be behind the launch of competing services to discourage potential buyers.

 

[swifty]

On the plymouthiantransit page, a number of comments are discussing that WG has been touted for sale at £1 with no interest. Of course at that price the buyer inherits the debt, but does this say something if it can't even be sold for £1?
I'm guessing First got wind of this and may be behind the launch of competing services to discourage potential buyers.

I'd heard that a few weeks back before First had announced their expansion, so that makes sense. Apparently they've been trying to flog their 50% shares separately for £1 each since the beginning of the summer.

 

[Goldfish62]

On the plymouthiantransit page, a number of comments are discussing that WG has been touted for sale at £1 with no interest. Of course at that price the buyer inherits the debt, but does this say something if it can't even be sold for £1?
I'm guessing First got wind of this and may be behind the launch of competing services to discourage potential buyers.

Many in the industry expect WG to close shortly and First are protecting their patch. The extremely worrying thing is that Cornwall Council has no money left to fund bus services, thus we should expect a massive pruning of the rural network.

 

[swifty]

I'd heard that a few weeks back before First had announced their expansion, so that makes sense. Apparently they've been trying to flog their 50% shares separately for £1 each since the beginning of the summer.

And here it is advertised for sale.

Independent Bus Company
Well established independent company
Operating routes within Cornwall and into Devon and Plymouth
New four-year Council contracts recently awarded
Extensive bus fleet operating from a freehold and 3 leasehold depots and workshops
Turnover year ended 30th September 2014 c.£7.9m

Expressions of interest for the business and assets are required by 5pm on Friday 14 November 2014.

http://www.es-group.com/business-sales?task=getitem&sale_id=208

 

[Busaholic]

On the plymouthiantransit page, a number of comments are discussing that WG has been touted for sale at £1 with no interest. Of course at that price the buyer inherits the debt, but does this say something if it can't even be sold for £1?
I'm guessing First got wind of this and may be behind the launch of competing services to discourage potential buyers.

Also inherited would be an insurance claim which, if paid in full or in part, might well cover most most or all of those debts, if such do indeed exist. Although no small firm would be likely to be interested, one of the groups might think it worth having a punt, particularly if given some assurances from Cornwall Council re tendered services. In any case, I'd expect Citybus to be interested in East and South East Cornwall, but maybe not North Cornwall. First would not want to get involved again east of Padstow, Bodmin and Par/Lostwithiel would they? North Cornwall with its lean pickings would surely be left to some motley indies or community bus services, with perhaps one or two incursions from rightfield by you-know-who.

 

[matt_splat]

what about stagecoach for the North the 510 could be chopped about and work well with the X9 a few routes linking Bude and other areas using a solo or two might work

who knows what will happen at one time there was a rumour I had heard about RATP being interested this was before the fire though

 

[Busaholic]

what about stagecoach for the North the 510 could be chopped about and work well with the X9 a few routes linking Bude and other areas using a solo or two might work

who knows what will happen at one time there was a rumour I had heard about RATP being interested this was before the fire though

I was hinting at Stagecoach dipping a toe in the Cornish water, not forgetting its always colder on the Northern coast.
Hadn't heard the one about RATP - after Yellow Buses it could have been Green Buses or Grey Buses, they don't seem to mind operating companies with some physical isolation from each other.
For a real leftfield selection, I'd have suggested East Yorkshire until recent retrenchment indicated perhaps they're going back to their core.

 

[South Westerly]

I was hinting at Stagecoach dipping a toe in the Cornish water, not forgetting its always colder on the Northern coast.
Hadn't heard the one about RATP - after Yellow Buses it could have been Green Buses or Grey Buses, they don't seem to mind operating companies with some physical isolation from each other.
For a real leftfield selection, I'd have suggested East Yorkshire until recent retrenchment indicated perhaps they're going back to their core.

RATP had an option to buy WG. It was before the reduction in concessionary payment levels. If anyone was going to buy it they would already have done so. It has been for sale for ages.

The overdue accounts have now been filed at companies house and tell a very interesting story. It says that the company can't carry on past the New Year unless it has a source of cash funding.

The company made a huge loss in that year and that has continued it says. Now First has now registered the majority of their key routes run from the Summercourt base, then those losses will only grow. There is nothing to buy. The company advertising the sale is one that specialises in valuing and selling assets for business that have closed down. It's obvious what is coming next.

 

[richw]

The short time frame for the offers to be made on that site-7 days, suggest a urgent sale needed to save the company

 

[matt_splat]

would the big boys really want to spend money on this when they can pick off the bits they want, I wonder if the depot would interest first?

Citybus might show intrest in the south east of the area but as I think has been said before what about first a chance to link things together and create new links for them selves into Plymouth?

 

[freetoview33]

First do seem to be moving that way with services venturing further north & east from cornwall

 

[richw]

A little research has found ES-group are receivers amongst other things. They advertise NatWest amongst their clients.
The most recent Western Greyhound accounts show 5 outstanding mortgage charges to NatWest.
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RATP had an option to buy WG.

This was not the case. No such option has ever existed.

 

[Busaholic]

This was not the case. No such option has ever existed.

Thanks for clarifying that.

 

[LateThanNever]

A little research has found ES-group are receivers amongst other things. They advertise NatWest amongst their clients.
The most recent Western Greyhound accounts show 5 outstanding mortgage charges to NatWest.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Mortgages on what I wonder? Hope it's not the directors' houses....

If, as speculated on here, these problems are caused by the insurance co not paying out. I'm amazed, that, as so far as I'm aware, no criminal charges have been brought the insurance co is not obliged to pay up. It is as if WG are being required to prove that they did not burn down their own garage before they get any payment...

 

[455driver]

I thought some people from Bristol were charged with the arson attack?

 

[richw]

I thought some people from Bristol were charged with the arson attack?

Charges were dropped I believe.
One of the alleged arsonists posted a comment on the Where's my bus Western Greyhound Facebook page a month or so ago. Made interesting reading but I'm not prepared to quote it here due to the potential slanderous nature of the comment.

I noticed Vario no 599 has reverted from private plate to original registration today.