What are your thoughts on wearing pollution masks when commuting?

[Bletchleyite]

It's absolutely both.

Then why do they only wear them when they have a cold?

 

[Uni_student]

But once aircon trains are introduced then won't the risk diminish to the same as those in air conditioned cars ? Yes you still have the getting to/from station and waiting for trains. But the same could be said about getting to/from your car/waiting for a taxi.

Just cannot see how masks are going to help. Especially as others have pointed out that unless worn absolutely correctly they are not effective. Cannot see commuters taking a couple of minutes to don their masks at the start and end of their day. (Especially seeing how annoyed many get at just missing their tube train even though the next one is normally less than 2 minutes away)

Yes all valid points, tubes with air conditioning and windows that don't open show significantly less pollution - the problem then comes from the doors opening every 5 minutes re-introducing pollution to the carriages in a car you can keep your windows and doors closed for the duration of the journey.

The study may prove that masks are not going to help due to the myriad of problems associated with correct use and therefore other methods of reducing the amount of pollution inhaled will have to be looked into.

 

[Bayum]

Then why do they only wear them when they have a cold?

They don't.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They don't.

My experience is that they mostly do.

 

[choochoochoo]

Yes all valid points, tubes with air conditioning and windows that don't open show significantly less pollution - the problem then comes from the doors opening every 5 minutes re-introducing pollution to the carriages in a car you can keep your windows and doors closed for the duration of the journey.

The study may prove that masks are not going to help due to the myriad of problems associated with correct use and therefore other methods of reducing the amount of pollution inhaled will have to be looked into.

Wouldn't the problem of re-introducing pollutants on opening doors be solved by a small positive pressure gradient causing air to flow out of the carriage ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wouldn't the problem of re-introducing pollutants on opening doors be solved by a small positive pressure gradient causing air to flow out of the carriage ?

They do work like that, don't they? All Tube trains I've been on recently use pressure ventilation, i.e. blow in, naturally flows out.

 

[Lrd]

They do work like that, don't they? All Tube trains I've been on recently use pressure ventilation, i.e. blow in, naturally flows out.

Bakerloo Line trains suck air out from the carriage through the circular fan in the ceiling, drawing in air from the vents above the windows.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Bakerloo Line trains suck air out from the carriage through the circular fan in the ceiling, drawing in air from the vents above the windows.

Oh OK, cheers. Downside of that is I guess it gives the "wrong" pressure differential to keep the cack out.

 

[najaB]

My experience is that they mostly do.

I can't speak to Japanese but Chinese people definitely do wear them all the time, not just when they have a cold.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can't speak to Japanese but Chinese people definitely do wear them all the time, not just when they have a cold.

I guess pollution in China is a much greater issue than Japan.

 

[Bayum]

There are superstitious concerns as well as personal concerns in the orient, particularly eastern Asia. 'Bad air' and 'moving air', particularly cold moving air is seen as being hugely important to avoid. In Korea particularly, there is a huge thing of sleeping with fans in the bedroom, even more so when they are on. There is a belief that this movement of air can cause death within people. Therefore, sleeping with fans on in Korean culture almost never happens. After the 'germ theory' hypothesis, then the influenza outbreak, followed by huge industrialisation across most of Asia, the use of masks has become almost prevalent and seen as a necessity since 1918. That's before we even begin to think about the frequent movement of smog into these countries via prevailing winds, Ebola, H5N1 etc.

 

[jopsuk]

for air conditioning on trains to be effective at reducing exposure to pollutants (especially PM 2.5) the filters would have to be substantially better than eg those fitted to cars, which are pretty hopeless- of all modes of transport, those exposed to the most directly harmful pollution are drivers and passengers in congestion.

(re the surgical mask thing- saw someone, of east asian ethnicity, the other day that was wearing one. But only covering her mouth, her nose was exposed)

 

[choochoochoo]

for air conditioning on trains to be effective at reducing exposure to pollutants (especially PM 2.5) the filters would have to be substantially better than eg those fitted to cars, which are pretty hopeless- of all modes of transport, those exposed to the most directly harmful pollution are drivers and passengers in congestion.

(re the surgical mask thing- saw someone, of east asian ethnicity, the other day that was wearing one. But only covering her mouth, her nose was exposed)

Even if the filters needed to be improved from those currently used, it still has to be a more practical solution than trying to implement masks for commuters.

 

[jopsuk]

Oh indeed- I'm just pointing out that air con isn't magic. Better filters means that you need more powerful fans, as air flow will be reduced. Further to the longish post earlier- I genuinely believe that "pollution masks" for the general public as they stand are borderline a scam. I don't think that they work- some designs are fundamentally hopeless, whilst others require training and testing to use correctly.

 

[Busaholic]

When it comes to the Japanese, don't discount the psychological effects on the population of the sarin nerve gas attack on the Tokyo metro back in 1995. 13 people were killed but 6,000 more suffered from it and many of those continue to suffer, just as the few survivors of the hydrogen bombs dropped on Japan in WW2 hardly got off scot-free. I know gas masks are not the same as general anti-pollution masks, but nevertheless it will get people used to the whole idea of wearing them.

 

[choochoochoo]

Without wanting to take this thread off-topic, do any other underground metro systems have emergency gas masks located at stations ? I noticed them when I was in Seoul.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Yes all valid points, tubes with air conditioning and windows that don't open show significantly less pollution - the problem then comes from the doors opening every 5 minutes re-introducing pollution to the carriages in a car you can keep your windows and doors closed for the duration of the journey.

The study may prove that masks are not going to help due to the myriad of problems associated with correct use and therefore other methods of reducing the amount of pollution inhaled will have to be looked into.

Would I be correct in guessing that, since the pollution mainly consists of particulates, and perhaps some molecules that are heavier than oxygen and nitrogen, they tend to sink? And therefore underground tunnels are naturally going to have much higher concentrations of pollutants than you'll find at street level.

If I'm right, any ideas what can be done to avoid that problem?

I do recall a few weeks ago being on the Tottenham Court Road central line platforms in the evening, and noticing that from one end of the platform, the other end was visibly slightly hazy - despite it being a pretty clear night outside.

 

[Domh245]

And therefore underground tunnels are naturally going to have much higher concentrations of pollutants than you'll find at street level.

If I'm right, any ideas what can be done to avoid that problem?

From what I've read, one of the major problems with the tube was all the brake dust that it kicked out and then kept confined in a narrow tunnel. Introduction of stock with regenerative braking capabilities helped reduce this somewhat