What can stop a train driver?

[Gathursty]

Say a train driver sets off from Wigan North Western (or wherever you prefer) with some grievance and decides to go on a bit of a 'joyride' to let steam off:
a) What systems can stop the train?
b) How far could they realistically travel?
c) Do the answers to a) and b) change depending on the class of train the driver is using?

 

[Dave1987]

Say a train driver sets off from Wigan North Western (or wherever you prefer) with some grievance and decides to go on a bit of a 'joyride' to let steam off:
a) What systems can stop the train?
b) How far could they realistically travel?
c) Do the answers to a) and b) change depending on the class of train the driver is using?

If he or she isolates TPWS then technically nothing except buffer stops or trap points.

 

[Lampshade]

I imagine he/she could get as far as the next red signal; TPWS would kick in after that.

 

[Silv1983]

Essentially, if the driver isolates the AWS/TPWS system and utilises the Emergency Bypass Switch to rule out a worried guard or passenger - he or she could keep going until something either physically blocks their path - such as another train / set of buffers; or they're derailed at one of the various sets of catch points used around the network.

I hope you're not planning to pinch a train

 

[Domh245]

Bit of an odd question! To be honest, I would hope that the driver would get picked up as "not being themselves" when they book on, or at least if they want on a joyride missing out stops, the guard (where present) would get in touch with control. Certainly I doubt many drivers would choose to go "joyriding" seeing as it would see them out of a job instantly, and probably liable for prosecution!

 

[alex17595]

I watched a film where there was maniac driver and the only way they could stop it was to set it on fire!

Realistically trap points will do the job. If its electric turn the juice of. Trains are not very good for joyriding because you cant choose which way to go.

 

[dcsprior]

Regarding (c) - as a layman I'd assume it'd be very easy to stop an electric train - but in reality can the current be cut without either:
* a large chunk of the network also losing power
* someone to do something at a location that doesn't have staff on-site

 

[GB]

If he or she isolates TPWS then technically nothing except buffer stops or trap points.

Trouble is trap points are not generally found on the mainline so the train will more than likely derail or collide before it encounters any....or derail after its declared a runaway and the signaller treats it as such.

 

[alex17595]

Regarding (c) - as a layman I'd assume it'd be very easy to stop an electric train - but in reality can the current be cut without either:
* a large chunk of the network also losing power
* someone to do something at a location that doesn't have staff on-site

Can the ECO not turn it all off in his/her area woth the press of a button?

Its worth loosing a chunk of network to stop a nutter driving a train. Has it ever happened before?

 

[najaB]

Trouble is trap points are not generally found on the mainline so the train will more than likely derail or collide before it encounters any....or derail after its declared a runaway and the signaller treats it as such.

My tuppence is on it derailing when it's routed into a siding or loop.

 

[GB]

That would be my thought also.

 

[colchesterken]

Interesting thought. It was suggested the missing airliner MH 239 could have been pilot suicide

on the same point there was a report of a pilots false hand falling off as he was landing, I would have thought the co pilot would have been at the controls at the landing and could take over but they said on the tellie he had no chance to hand over, so he landed one handed. when I was learning to drive the instructor could take over on the dual controls

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Regarding (c) - as a layman I'd assume it'd be very easy to stop an electric train -

Not necessarily so. Some years back due to engineering work at Queens Park South Sheds a 59 stock (electric) train had to be stabled in the Queens Park Southbound platform. All four handbrakes in the cabs (two each end and the two intermediate cabs) should have been applied but as often happened the guard applied the one on the rear and driver the handbrake in the front cab so only two were applied. There was a fault reported concerning the handbrake in the rear cab on the 'Trouble Card'. The fitter who checked the train soon after stabling just signed off the fault on the rear handbrake as NDF (No Defect Found). About 2 or 3 hours later the train went for a roll from Queens Park heading South and made it as far as Oxford Circus before rolling back down to Regents Park. There were supposed to be staff working on the track who cut away early - had they not they would have been killed by the runaway. Doesn't really matter what powers the train but more how the braking systems work. Would imagine today they are far more failsafe but not necessarily so.

 

[najaB]

...on the same point there was a report of a pilots false hand falling off as he was landing, I would have thought the co pilot would have been at the controls at the landing and could take over but they said on the tellie he had no chance to hand over, so he landed one handed.

It's not the case that the Captain always flies - the flight crew operate on a PF (pilot flying) / PNF (pilot not flying) basis and typically they will swap roles on alternate take offs and landings.

The PF has his or her hands on the controls, and the PNF monitors the systems and handles communications. The PNF is prepared to take control if the PF calls it, but otherwise will keep their hands off the controls. In the event you are referring to, the PF's prosthetic arm came off mere seconds before they touched down so there wasn't enough time to call a change of control as it would take a while for the PNF to get 'hands on'.

 

[185]

Say a train driver sets off from Wigan North Western (or wherever you prefer) with some grievance and decides to go on a bit of a 'joyride' to let steam off: ....what would stop him?

1) Appropriate psychological evaluation during interview.

Question. So, outside work, what is your favourite hobby?

Candidate. Disembowelling the milkman and eating the neighbours pets.

*bing*

May be an issue with this candidate.

 

[jon0844]

What can stop a train driver?

Christmas Day?

 

[Bertie the bus]

Its worth loosing a chunk of network to stop a nutter driving a train. Has it ever happened before?

If you mean has anybody ever been on a joyride on a train then the answer is yes. There is an article somewhere detailing how a 16 year old apprentice decided to have a go in the days of steam. It didn't end well, not for the loco anyway but I think he was OK. I seem to recall it was in the Derby area.

Interesting thought. It was suggested the missing airliner MH 239 could have been pilot suicide

I don't believe the Moorgate crash has ever been fully explained and probably never will.

 

[TheEdge]

1) Appropriate psychological evaluation during interview.

Question. So, outside work, what is your favourite hobby?

Candidate. Disembowelling the milkman and eating the neighbours pets.

*bing*

May be an issue with this candidate.

Sounds like the perfect management candidate!

 

[ninja-lewis]

Offer a below-inflation pay rise so the union calls a strike?

Instructional video from the Moscow Railway.

 

[Flamingo]

Christmas Day?

Nooooooo, it's only August, don't start the annual thread this early....

 

[AM9]

I've just finished watching the 2009 version of the Pelham 123 on Channel 4, - how topical!
Yes I know it's cheesy and as far as the visuals are concerned unprototypical, but it was interesting seeing how accurate all the locations were.

 

[sbt]

1) Appropriate psychological evaluation during interview.

Question. So, outside work, what is your favourite hobby?

Candidate. Disembowelling the milkman and eating the neighbours pets.

*bing*

May be an issue with this candidate.

A friend of mine was reported (by his Guard IIRC) for making, a typical for him, comment regarding taking his train for a jaunt. Train terminated at next stop and several months on Gardening Leave whilst they made sure he WAS joking. Still driving, still making bad taste jokes.

 

[90019]

What can stop a train driver?

Christmas Day?

Or for the rest of the year, just put some leaves onto the tracks in front of the train.

 

[Stigy]

Would a red signal not stop a train? Regardless of a safety feature being disabled?

 

[carriageline]

Would a red signal not stop a train? Regardless of a safety feature being disabled?

Nope, they are passed at danger every day (with authority) for a whole variety of reasons. There are signals out there with no safety systems (IE AWS OR TPWS) linked to them.

And as what railsigns was talking about, I wouldn't want to be the signaller who reroutes that train. One of our instructions with SPAD or trains proceeding without authority is to divert the train (IE into a siding or something), I haven't heard of that happening and would have to be one very brave signaller!!


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[Carlisle]

Nothing can stop a train with isolated TIS, EBS & TPWS except hitting the deck or the buffers.

If brakes etc are isolated surely an 08 ,other loco or modern electric equivalent is generally required for movements within depots

 

[Yabbadabba]

Nope, they are passed at danger every day (with authority) for a whole variety of reasons. There are signals out there with no safety systems (IE AWS OR TPWS) linked to them.

And as what railsigns was talking about, I wouldn't want to be the signaller who reroutes that train. One of our instructions with SPAD or trains proceeding without authority is to divert the train (IE into a siding or something), I haven't heard of that happening and would have to be one very brave signaller!!


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A signalman working in Carlisle Panel had to divert a runaway freight in 1984, where by the diverted runaway demolished a bridge over the River Caldew just passed the old junction of, bog junction and Rome street junction on the old freight avoildings lines in Carlisle.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/8417743.stm

http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/m...evented-major-rail-crash-in-carlisle-1.647845

 

[muz379]

if it is a diesel there is always running out of fuel as well if it gets that far .

 

[SPADTrap]

Interesting thought. It was suggested the missing airliner MH 239 could have been pilot suicide

on the same point there was a report of a pilots false hand falling off as he was landing, I would have thought the co pilot would have been at the controls at the landing and could take over but they said on the tellie he had no chance to hand over, so he landed one handed. when I was learning to drive the instructor could take over on the dual controls

MH 239? False hand?

 

[DownSouth]

And as what railsigns was talking about, I wouldn't want to be the signaller who reroutes that train. …

I'm sure that it would just be a case of the signallers putting their training into action, and that the appropriate counselling would be offered afterwards if it turns out to be a bad incident. If the appropriate screening is done to pick candidates who can handle pressurised situations and the training is good, there would be no hesitation to make the right calls at the time.

Controllers in Melbourne had a nasty one to deal with in 2003 (see the Australian Transport Safety Bureau report) which involved a runaway EMU (which may or may not have had passengers on board) coasting downhill at speeds of over 100km/h, almost catching up to the service in front and then the best (or more accurately, least-worst) option being to crash it into another train in a terminus platform.

The general conclusion was that it was handled relatively well despite it being close enough to the worst possible situation short of terrorist action and there being no specific plan for a runaway train back then. There was very high praise for the driver of the service in front, who combined his traction and route knowledge to make a perfect judgement as to the margin over the normal rated speed he could safely take a turnout to clear away from the path of the runaway coming behind him.

I would not be at all surprised if some of the modern train designs delivered in recent years (i.e. since 9/11) would have the facility for an emergency stop to be remotely activated over a secure radio link from a control room. I do know that our suburban rail controllers in Adelaide do take part in simulation exercises with emergency/defence personnel – including terrorism-related scenarios.

if it is a diesel there is always running out of fuel as well if it gets that far .

That sounds even less useful than turning off the electricity!

Is there some sort of niggling doubt in your head in regards to the brilliance, responsibility and god like status afforded to the dizzying heights of "Depot Driver" hence the necessity to remind everyone how important it is with every vaguely related post you make?

They obviously don't inspire a great level of faith if their management only let them drive around in depots that are kept safely isolated away from the big railway by trap/catch points