What could replace 465 and 466 networkers?

[py_megapixel]

Is the loss of space due to cabs with an order entirely of 4-car units run in multiple as needed really outweigh the huge loss in flexibility from having fixed formations over such a huge and diverse network? Especially considering you could have gangways to allow walking through?

If it were me, I'd order a fleet of 4-car Desiro Cities with gangways. I've certainly seen artist impressions of the Desiro City body with a gangway (in fact - isn't that actually what the 380 bodyshell effectively is?) and the fact that they managed to fit the emergency exit door into the 717 suggests that they could probably put a gangway there instead.

 

[221101 Voyager]

Is the loss of space due to cabs with an order entirely of 4-car units run in multiple as needed really outweigh the huge loss in flexibility from having fixed formations over such a huge and diverse network? Especially considering you could have gangways to allow walking through?

If it were me, I'd order a fleet of 4-car Desiro Cities with gangways. I've certainly seen artist impressions of the Desiro City body with a gangway (in fact - isn't that actually what the 380 bodyshell effectively is?) and the fact that they managed to fit the emergency exit door into the 717 suggests that they could probably put a gangway there instead.

Good points there I agree shorter lengths with gangways is a overall good idea. Bit like the 350s on the WCML in a way.

Desiro city can be specified with a gangway so it could be a workable solution.

If all 10 car services were downgraded to 8 car, not at all ideal but there is not a 1 or 2 size formation fits all on this network it would seem!

 

[Aictos]

You can split them for maintenance I believe.

You can't though as they are fixed 8 or 12 car formation trains as according to the DfT, Siemens, South Eastern, Thameslink, Southern and Network Rail and as proven in the fact sheet below:

https://uhoun19qey9384ovv24t33c1-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Siemens-Class-700-Thameslink-Trains-Factsheet.pdf

What they should do is order enough Class 700s in both 8 and 12 car formations to make the most of the infrastructure both current and also future potential platform extensions where possible.

In the mean while, they can use SDO at stations unable to fully platform the train such as Class 700/1s (12 cars) being able to call at Woolwich Dockyard and just using SDO there which would deliver a increase of seating to South Eastern passengers using those trains.

 

[221101 Voyager]

You can't though as they are fixed 8 or 12 car formation trains as according to the DfT, Siemens, South Eastern, Thameslink, Southern and Network Rail and as proven in the fact sheet below:

https://uhoun19qey9384ovv24t33c1-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Siemens-Class-700-Thameslink-Trains-Factsheet.pdf

What they should do is order enough Class 700s in both 8 and 12 car formations to make the most of the infrastructure both current and also future potential platform extensions where possible.

In the mean while, they can use SDO at stations unable to fully platform the train such as Class 700/1s (12 cars) being able to call at Woolwich Dockyard and just using SDO there which would deliver a increase of seating to South Eastern passengers using those trains.

Unfortuantely it's not as simple as 8 or 12 car. Some services that are 10 car would have to be downgraded to 8 car if that was the case as places such as Victoria can't fit 12 cars in P3, 4 or 8. Charing Cross can't fit 12 car in P4, 5 & 6 either.

If there were 12 car units they'd be limited to services out of Charing Cross P1, 2 or 3 and All Platforms at Cannon Street or terminating services at Blackfriars or London Bridge (except P15 as it's too short).


10 car is overall better as they can run pretty much anywhere with the exception of Brixton and Victoria P3 & 4.


This is the suggestion I made few posts back to try and best use available platform lengths.

20 x 8-car (160 coaches) for use out of Victoria P3 & 4 in addition to Brixton where 8-car maximum is the limit.

40 x 12 car (480 coaches) to make best use of 12 car platforms at terminus stops like Cannon Street and Charing Cross And other non-terminus stations with 12 car platforms.

45x 10 car (450 coaches) (to use on platforms that can‘t fit a 12 car unit ie; P4, 5 & 6 at Charing Cross) Also could be used on services from Victoria that don't stop at Brixton.

All coaches are 20m.

As mentioned previously any non-terminus station with the exception of Brixton can use SDO if the train is too long for the platform.

 

[Aictos]

Unfortuantely it's not as simple as 8 or 12 car. Some services that are 10 car would have to be downgraded to 8 car if that was the case as places such as Victoria can't fit 12 cars in P3, 4 or 8. Charing Cross can't fit 12 car in P4, 5 & 6 either.

If there were 12 car units they'd be limited to services out of Charing Cross P1, 2 or 3 and All Platforms at Cannon Street or terminating services at Blackfriars or London Bridge (except P15 as it's too short).


10 car is overall better as they can run pretty much anywhere with the exception of Brixton and Victoria P3 & 4.


This is the suggestion I made few posts back to try and best use available platform lengths.

20 x 8-car (160 coaches) for use out of Victoria P3 & 4 in addition to Brixton where 8-car maximum is the limit.

40 x 12 car (480 coaches) to make best use of 12 car platforms at terminus stops like Cannon Street and Charing Cross And other non-terminus stations with 12 car platforms.

45x 10 car (450 coaches) (to use on platforms that can‘t fit a 12 car unit ie; P4, 5 & 6 at Charing Cross) Also could be used on services from Victoria that don't stop at Brixton.

All coaches are 20m.

As mentioned previously any non-terminus station with the exception of Brixton can use SDO if the train is too long for the platform.

Which is why I said order enough of 8 and 12 cars fixed formation sets that would make best use of infrastructure with SDO used where the train cannot be fully platformed.

If this isn't viable then a mix of 10 and 12 car fixed formation Class 700s with the existing Class 375s used to operate the 8 car services.

 

[Fincra5]

Probably 707s, a Unified Metro Fleet and leave the Electrostars to the Kent Coast services.