What could we have done differently ?

[30907]

Just for clarity, as I often buy tickets for my kids who then travel alone, how would they be expected to collect their tickets at the destination? Every time I’ve collected tickets I’ve required the payment card as well as the collection code, so the only way it’d work would be for me to give my lad my credit card and me have to manage without for a number of days

I presume you are referring to the notice on the machine in post #1.
Would handing over your card be a breach of its Ts and Cs?

 

[WesternLancer]

Just for clarity, as I often buy tickets for my kids who then travel alone, how would they be expected to collect their tickets at the destination? Every time I’ve collected tickets I’ve required the payment card as well as the collection code, so the only way it’d work would be for me to give my lad my credit card and me have to manage without for a number of days

Good point. I'm not sure what systems (if all?) work this way but when my work buy me a ticket they give me a numerical collection code and you go to a machine and insert ANY bank card - and then take it out again - place in the code and it issues the tickets. Thus circumvents the requirment to use the card that the tickets were bought with. But I assume this is some system that by passes that requirement? So do ticket collection machines genuinly require the purchasers card. or just say that they do?

 

[najaB]

So do ticket collection machines genuinly require the purchasers card. or just say that they do?

It depends on if the ticket collection code has been set to "any card" or "specific card".

 

[Haywain]

It depends on if the ticket collection code has been set to "any card" or "specific card".

Which is at the choice of the retailer.

 

[BC]

There has to be a mechanism for alternate ticket issuance, in the case of cards lost or stolen between purchase date and pickup.

Regardless in this case they were given permission to travel it would appear on the bald face of it.

 

[BC]

Just to clarify (now that you have confirmed your son is 21), your son must make the Subject Access Request.

I'd think father and son should make them to find out if anythings been flagged as a warning against either of them...

 

[WesternLancer]

It depends on if the ticket collection code has been set to "any card" or "specific card".

Thanks

 

[Fergus]

Many thanks for all the helpful comments. Here is the wording in the letter

"I have carefully read through your e-mail, alongside your evidence, and on this occasion, I am more than happy to close this case, without taking any further action and issue you with a warning only.
Making sure this doesn’t happen again
If you are reported to us again, we may not be able to resolve the matter in the same way. With that in mind, when you travel with us, please make sure you have the right ticket for your journey – and that you have read and understood the terms and conditions. You’ll find them all at www.nationalrail.co.uk."

So this is basically an accusation that he & I were attempting to dodge fares and that is totally unacceptable to both of us. The money was in GWR's (or at least with trainline.com) account 24 hours before he set foot on the train. We have been racking our brains to try to figure out how we could have avoided the situation but it really feels like we did nothing wrong. In fact we followed GWR's own instructions/notice and ended up in this situation.

So we will continue to pursue it at first with GWR and then with the Ombudsman. I really appreciate all the useful comments on here and will revert with our progress.

BTW he & I have agreed that in future if I pay for a train ticket for him I will txfer the money to him and he will buy the ticket. Although it did not have any bearing on this situation it might keep it cleaner if & when the situation arises again. This said, I have attached a picture of the trainline eticket and it clearly says "collect using any payment card"

 

[BC]

Others might have better or different ideas but when I see companies behaving like this I love to prod them and get them to pay attention... and make work for them...

Since they are quoting the NRCoT I'd be writing back to them.... Point out that there assertion that you must have the ticket for the journey is not always the case - point out the relevant section of the NRCoT, vis 6.1

Point out that you fall into two of these conditions....

6.1. You must have a valid Ticket to travel before you board a train where there was the opportunity to buy one unless one of the following circumstances applies:
6.1.1. At the station where you start your journey, there is no means of purchasing a Ticket, either because there is no Ticket office open or self-service Ticket machine in working order; and where notices indicate that you are in a Penalty Fares area you purchase a Permit to Travel if there is a working Permit to Travel issuing machine at the station where you start your journey – see Condition 10 for more information about Penalty Fares; or
6.1.2. Where you are specifically permitted to board a train service by an authorised member of staff or notice of the Train Company whose service you intend to board;

As such there is no case to answer. If there is a file on your names then you require to know why this is being held . Remind them of the GDPR and the processing requirements such that (Article 5(1) ) data is....

(b) collected for specified, explicit and legitimate purposes and not further processed in a manner that is incompatible with those purposes; further processing for archiving purposes in the public interest, scientific or historical research purposes or statistical purposes shall not be considered to be incompatible with the initial purposes (‘purpose limitation’);

(c) adequate, relevant and limited to what is necessary in relation to the purposes for which they are processed (‘data minimisation’);

(d) accurate and, where necessary, kept up to date; every reasonable step must be taken to ensure that personal data that are inaccurate, having regard to the purposes for which they are processed, are erased or rectified without delay (‘accuracy’);

I'd ask them that since you have done thing other than comply with the contracted terms, that you have not broken any bylaws, and are no different from any other passenger in that regard you data is being processed differently.

You also wish to make a full subject access request and expect that to be returned immediately (they have to do it promptly they cannot wait for the maximum time period - remind them of that).

Then suggest to them that if they remove the warning, confirm in writing it has been done and ask them to suggest a suitable recompense for your time....

 

[Hadders]

To be honest the letter GWR have sent you is simply a standard cut and paste job.

The person who sent it should have paid more attention and sent something more appropriate but I don’t think it constitutes a formal warning.

I would still complain, they could start by apologising for the inconvenience of their TVM being out of order for a start!