What current train services would look different if certain railways hadn’t been closed?

[PTR 444]

An interesting exercise is to consider the railway services that exist today and take a rather convoluted route. Are there any that might look different had more direct lines axed by Beeching (and before) been retained?

Some possibilities in my neck of the woods:

Weymouth - Bristol: As normal to Yeovil Pen Mill, then reversing to YVJ and again towards Sherborne, continuing to Bristol via Templecombe West Curve, S&DJR and the Midland route from Bath Green Park to Bristol Temple Meads.

Cardiff Central - Portsmouth: As normal to Romsey, then running to Eastleigh where the train splits into separate Southampton and Portsmouth portions. Former runs to Southampton Terminus to avoid the tunnel bottleneck, while latter runs via Botley. Relieves capacity through Southampton and on the Netley Line.

London Waterloo - Portsmouth via Eastleigh: Since this service is primarily to give Fareham a direct service to London, this would have most likely taken the more direct route via Alton and the Meon Valley (most likely in place of one of the existing Alton trains). Potentially could have continued to Gosport rather than Portsmouth.

London Waterloo - Weymouth. Could make use of portions detached at Bournemouth by continuing them as services to Wimborne (via Broadstone) or Swanage. Might allow more skipping of local stations west of Bournemouth on the Weymouth portions.

Cross Country South Coast services: A few trains per day could have taken the more direct GWR railway route between Winchester and Oxford via Newbury, although with that bypassing Basingstoke and Reading, this could have had a major impact on revenue.

What other services that exist today might look different had Beeching not welded his axe?

 

[Gloster]

Cross-country trains running north from Gloucester via Honeybourne and Stratford? Paddington-Hereford via Gloucester and Ross-on-Wye? Central Wales trains missing Llanelli, either on the old route or by a connection at Gowerton? Settle & Carlisle trains diverting at Appleby via Clifton Moor to serve Penrith?

 

[Uncle Buck]

What an interesting question!

I wonder whether there might be twice as many trains from Glasgow to Aberdeen; an express running Stirling-Perth-Montrose via the Strathmore line, and another travelling the modern route via Dundee.

If the Callander and Oban route had not closed perhaps trains to Oban would originate at Edinburgh, and trains to
Fort William and Mallaig at Glasgow.

If the line under the West End of Glasgow (Kelvinbridge-Botanic Gardens-Kirklee) hadn’t closed I’m sure it would be an important part of the North Clyde/Argyle network, as might the Kilmacolm branch.

Princes Street Station in Edinburgh, now a hotel, might well be a busy terminal again.

If Birkenhead Woodside had remained open I can see it being used as a terminus for longer-distance services again.

The Derby to Manchester line through Matlock would, I’m pretty certain, be used by EMR for some Intercity services, and perhaps a Birmingham to Norwich service would use the Great Northern and Midland Joint Line.

The Cheltenham to Stratford, Cheltenham to Banbury, Penrith to Cockermouth and Bodmin to Padstow lines would be busy with tourist traffic.

I continue to fail to see much use for the Great Central!

 

[brad465]

If the full Dartmoor line hadn't been shut, it's possible that Waterloo-Exeter services would be running through to Plymouth via Okehampton as a well established service.

Furthermore, if the West Somerset railway hadn't shut properly, then I can see an alternative reality where Cardiff-Taunton services would run through to Minehead, with potentially the handful of London-Taunton via Bristol services doing the same.

 

[Halish Railway]

I think it’d be likely that if the Tyldesley loop line (Parkside to Eccles via Leigh) remained open it’d be used by secondary services such as the all stations Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Airport service, with the direct route across Chat Moss used only by limited stop services.

For me it’s a bit of a toss up as to whether London Kings Cross to Harrogate services would continue to go via Horsforth or via Cross Gates and Wetherby.

 

[A S Leib]

As tempting as it is to imagine a cross-Hertfordshire service had the Watford and Rickmansworth, and Hatfield and St. Albans Railways remained open, I suspect the lack of flying junctions at Watford Junction and lack of electrification east of St. Albans Abbey would have meant it would have stayed as three separate services.

With Aylesbury to Cheddington and (Welwyn Garden City –) Luton – Leighton Buzzard being open, I wonder if Milton Keynes would have a better suburban service; that would probably be at least 8 tph between Bletchley and Milton Keynes Central including East West Rail, unless some were already being sent towards Bedford in this scenario. I'd guess that the current Euston to Milton Keynes Central services would continue to Newport Pagnell.

I don't know how much of a population there is on the North Wylam branch; I'd guess it would have similar services to the Tyne Valley line now, although I wonder if there'd be any Carlisle to Newcastle (or even longer) services going that way nonstop rather than calling at MetroCentre.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

I continue to fail to see much use for the Great Central!

A revamp as a high speed longer distance railway between London and Yorkshire perhaps. HS2 is after all more or less following the same route before it diverges towards Birmingham.

 

[The Ham]

London Waterloo - Portsmouth via Eastleigh: Since this service is primarily to give Fareham a direct service to London, this would have most likely taken the more direct route via Alton and the Meon Valley (most likely in place of one of the existing Alton trains). Potentially could have continued to Gosport rather than Portsmouth.

Alton services would have carried on to Winchester.

As to serving the Melon Valley, I wonder if they would have split/joined services (as SWT/SWR has a history of doing so), although

If the Meon Valley was heading to Gosport then there could be a case that the Via Eastleigh service could have still run (assuming that the line into Portsmouth is likely to be the constraint rather than elsewhere).

Cross Country South Coast services: A few trains per day could have taken the more direct GWR railway route between Winchester and Oxford via Newbury, although with that bypassing Basingstoke and Reading, this could have had a major impact on revenue.

XC at the very least could see 2tph south of Reading due to freight being able to bypass Basingstoke and Reading.

 

[daodao]

Edinburgh to Inverness used to run via Kinross, but this line was closed over 50 years ago and trains were diverted via Stirling. The extant Ladybank to Perth line was reopened for passenger traffic a few years later to provide a more direct route via Fife. However, through services from Edinburgh to Inverness have reverted again to the slower and more roundabout route via Stirling for reasons that are unclear to me.

 

[Zomboid]

However, through services from Edinburgh to Inverness have reverted again to the slower and more roundabout route via Stirling for reasons that are unclear to me.

Probably to serve Stirling and the various other places they call between Edinburgh and Perth.

 

[PTR 444]

Alton services would have carried on to Winchester.

As to serving the Melon Valley, I wonder if they would have split/joined services (as SWT/SWR has a history of doing so), although

If the Meon Valley was heading to Gosport then there could be a case that the Via Eastleigh service could have still run (assuming that the line into Portsmouth is likely to be the constraint rather than elsewhere).

Perhaps another option could have been to run from Alton to Winchester then on to Fareham via Hedge End. Not sure if that routing would have been quicker than direct via the Meon Valley.

In a scenario where Alton - Winchester was still open, you could also run a Southampton terminator that way, allowing the existing Waterloo - Southampton/Portsmouth via Eastleigh paths to become additional services to Bournemouth.

I could see far fewer passenger services through Southampton Tunnel, as you would have the option to terminate services from the east at Southampton Terminus. St Denys might increase in importance as an interchange to provide connections between trains heading to two separate Southampton stations.

XC at the very least could see 2tph south of Reading due to freight being able to bypass Basingstoke and Reading.

That’s a good point. Freight would be the key flow along that route, although it would also be useful for diversions whenever via Reading is blocked.

 

[JGurney]

I suspect quite a lot of freight between Felixstowe and Doncaster would be going via March and Spalding rather than Peterborough.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

If it had stayed open, Caernarfon might have been preferred as a terminus for North Wales Coast services rather than Holyhead.

 

[BranstonJnc]

What an interesting question!

I wonder whether there might be twice as many trains from Glasgow to Aberdeen; an express running Stirling-Perth-Montrose via the Strathmore line, and another travelling the modern route via Dundee.

If the Callander and Oban route had not closed perhaps trains to Oban would originate at Edinburgh, and trains to
Fort William and Mallaig at Glasgow.

If the line under the West End of Glasgow (Kelvinbridge-Botanic Gardens-Kirklee) hadn’t closed I’m sure it would be an important part of the North Clyde/Argyle network, as might the Kilmacolm branch.

Princes Street Station in Edinburgh, now a hotel, might well be a busy terminal again.

If Birkenhead Woodside had remained open I can see it being used as a terminus for longer-distance services again.

The Derby to Manchester line through Matlock would, I’m pretty certain, be used by EMR for some Intercity services, and perhaps a Birmingham to Norwich service would use the Great Northern and Midland Joint Line.

The Cheltenham to Stratford, Cheltenham to Banbury, Penrith to Cockermouth and Bodmin to Padstow lines would be busy with tourist traffic.

I continue to fail to see much use for the Great Central!

If you look now at the way there's a "growth arc" from Oxford to Milton Keynes and Cambridge, the GC would at least have been able to function as an excellent 'outer suburban' line. Look at the development of warehousing as well at Daventry and Rugby, and Hinckley.

A four-track route from South Ruislip (because you would be able to have services to/from bay platforms at Old Oak Common or even Crossrail services extended up to somewhere like Gerrards Cross) to outside High Wycombe, then four-track again north of West Wycombe. The route from Ashendon to Calvert staying open, and the capacity out of Marylebone reduced in need as a result of the Met line being extended to Aylesbury.

Then you've got lots of nice, big, potentially even double-deck (!) EMUs or DMUs thrashing around with huge development, interchange stations (Calvert) and the like to serve bigger towns like Haddenham, Brackley, a sort of Daventry Parkway, Rugby, Lutterworth and an amended route to join in near Narborough to get into Leicester, which with grade separation and more platforms would handle the load as well as the freight.

That's where it would have been useful. Not for expresses or freight.

 

[The exile]

An interesting exercise is to consider the railway services that exist today and take a rather convoluted route. Are there any that might look different had more direct lines axed by Beeching (and before) been retained?

Some possibilities in my neck of the woods:

Weymouth - Bristol: As normal to Yeovil Pen Mill, then reversing to YVJ and again towards Sherborne, continuing to Bristol via Templecombe West Curve, S&DJR and the Midland route from Bath Green Park to Bristol Temple Meads.

Had post-war plans come to fruition, Green Park would have closed, with a LMS / GWR link near Newbridge and a new spur between the Camerton branch and the S&D at Midford…

 

[Bletchleyite]

With regard to Milton Keynes, if the Newport Pagnell branch hadn't closed I could potentially have envisaged a half hourly Milton Keynes U-shaped "metro" DMU service between the Marston Vale and Newport Pagnell via Milton Keynes Central, though I think that would have required two reversals, at Wolverton and Bletchley. It's interesting to think what effect that may have had on EWR plans, as it would probably have influenced the structural development of Milton Keynes (potentially higher density and higher prices around those stations, just as if you look at Merseyside it's all grown up as beads on a string around stations once you get out of the main built up area) and would potentially be carrying quite decent loadings rather than being a backwater.

Along similar lines, had Skelmersdale not lost its railway (or had it been built further south, centred on a station on the Kirkby-Wigan line) I think it would have done economically quite a lot better than it has, being a decent option for living in to commute to Liverpool as Kirkby can be.

 

[Mikey C]

If the line between Princes Risborough and Cowley still existed, Chiltern trains to Oxford would do that way instead if via the new curve to Bicester Village.

 

[PTR 444]

If the line between Princes Risborough and Cowley still existed, Chiltern trains to Oxford would do that way instead if via the new curve to Bicester Village.

But would they, considering Bicester Village is now a major tourist draw.

 

[Mikey C]

But would they, considering Bicester Village is now a major tourist draw.

Previously there was a shuttle bus from Bicester North, so Chiltern still effectively served the complex.

 

[The Planner]

If the line between Princes Risborough and Cowley still existed, Chiltern trains to Oxford would do that way instead if via the new curve to Bicester Village.

Doubt it, it was single. We have done this one before, as Chiltern did look at it. The chord at Bicester makes a lot more sense considering the line from Bicester to Oxford was there.

 

[Magdalia]

East Anglia-West Midlands via the ex LNWR route Peterborough-Rugby.

I hope that I live to see the day when Cambridge-Bedford can be added to the list!

 

[A S Leib]

Previously there was a shuttle bus from Bicester North, so Chiltern still effectively served the complex.

Would there be enough capacity for Banbury, Leamington Spa and Solihull passengers if Bicester passengers didn't have the Oxford services?

I think Northampton would have more intercity services, especially post-HS2, if the Bedford and Leicester lines were still open.

 

[30907]

A general question: when these various lines were open, what use was made of them? If they carried longer-distance traffic, they likely still would; if they were never more than cross-country secondary lines, would that have changed?

Weymouth - Bristol: As normal to Yeovil Pen Mill, then reversing to YVJ and again towards Sherborne, continuing to Bristol via Templecombe West Curve, S&DJR and the Midland route from Bath Green Park to Bristol Temple Meads.

How long would that have taken?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Previously there was a shuttle bus from Bicester North, so Chiltern still effectively served the complex.

Still exists, primarily to serve those coming from the Birmingham direction.

A general question: when these various lines were open, what use was made of them? If they carried longer-distance traffic, they likely still would

Not sure that's true. The S&C and Merseyrail Ormskirk Line both once carried long distance traffic but no longer do - it was diverted.

 

[A S Leib]

Would Navenby have been quicker than Newark for London to Lincoln services? I'd guess Newark would be preferable anyway, due to being a larger town and not needing a reversal at Lincoln when / if Cleethorpes services start.

 

[InTheEastMids]

As tempting as it is to imagine a cross-Hertfordshire service had the Watford and Rickmansworth, and Hatfield and St. Albans Railways remained open, I suspect the lack of flying junctions at Watford Junction and lack of electrification east of St. Albans Abbey would have meant it would have stayed as three separate services.

With Aylesbury to Chessington and (Welwyn Garden City –) Luton – Leighton Buzzard being open, I wonder if Milton Keynes would have a better suburban service; that would probably be at least 8 tph between Bletchley and Milton Keynes Central including East West Rail, unless some were already being sent towards Bedford in this scenario. I'd guess that the current Euston to Milton Keynes Central services would continue to Newport Pagnell.

I don't know how much of a population there is on the North Wylam branch; I'd guess it would have similar services to the Tyne Valley line now, although I wonder if there'd be any Carlisle to Newcastle (or even longer) services going that way nonstop rather than calling at MetroCentre.

[Pedant] Assume you mean Cheddington, rather than Chessington?
Then you have to wonder about slow line capacity if you've got MK-bound trains joining the WCML at Cheddington, LB and Bletchley.
Would WCRM have led to a need for lots more grade separation (e.g. at Cheddington), or would the services have been curtailed - it's a number of variations on what happened at Nuneaton.

East Anglia-West Midlands via the ex LNWR route Peterborough-Rugby.

I think Northampton would have more intercity services, especially post-HS2, if the Bedford and Leicester lines were still open.

Problem with Rugby is that getting further into the West Mids is via Coventry to New Street (congested), and a rural route from Peterborough to Rugby that misses Leicester... Well I think it would at least guarantee you a seat when a 2-car DMU shows up.
Not sure about Inter-city services at Northampton, but could dream of MKC-Nottingham via Harborough and Rugby-Cambridge via Bedford in this world where we haven't shut anything.
I think for this part of the world, any does have to probably be linking two of Cambridge, MK, West Mids and possibly Leicester/Nottingham to get the passenger numbers anywhere near acceptable.

It did make also me think about potential options for freight like Felixstowe-DIRFT/Northampton Gateway:
Nene Valley via Peterborough & Northampton
Existing route Peterborough to Wigston, but then head South then Rugby
Peterborough-Rugby (I think it would have offered the benefit of grade-separation with the ECML, MML & WCML)
Cambridge-Bedford St Johns - Midland - Northampton

 

[simonw]

If you look now at the way there's a "growth arc" from Oxford to Milton Keynes and Cambridge, the GC would at least have been able to function as an excellent 'outer suburban' line. Look at the development of warehousing as well at Daventry and Rugby, and Hinckley.

A four-track route from South Ruislip (because you would be able to have services to/from bay platforms at Old Oak Common or even Crossrail services extended up to somewhere like Gerrards Cross) to outside High Wycombe, then four-track again north of West Wycombe. The route from Ashendon to Calvert staying open, and the capacity out of Marylebone reduced in need as a result of the Met line being extended to Aylesbury.

Then you've got lots of nice, big, potentially even double-deck (!) EMUs or DMUs thrashing around with huge development, interchange stations (Calvert) and the like to serve bigger towns like Haddenham, Brackley, a sort of Daventry Parkway, Rugby, Lutterworth and an amended route to join in near Narborough to get into Leicester, which with grade separation and more platforms would handle the load as well as the freight.

That's where it would have been useful. Not for expresses or freight.

The great central loading gauge was hardly bigger than that used elsewhere on the network. It is a myth that it was built to a generous 'continental ' gauge.

 

[A S Leib]

Assume you mean Cheddington, rather than Chessington?

Yes; I don't think direct Aylesbury to Chessington services have ever happened or are particularly likely to.

 

[eldomtom2]

If it had stayed open, Caernarfon might have been preferred as a terminus for North Wales Coast services rather than Holyhead.

Personally I doubt that - Holyhead is larger and has the ferries.

 

[devon_belle]

A great concept for a thread. I often daydream about these alternate histories.

If the East Devon branches (Exmouth to Tipton St Johns, Sidmouth, Seaton, Lyme Regis) stayed open I suspect Exeter to Axminster, at least, would have stayed double track. Exeter Central would probably have retained its 4 platforms in regular use, with a small army of 150s trundling up and down from the various branch destinations. While the branches would probably have been operated as shuttles like in Cornwall, I like to think that facing connections would be installed (except possibly at Axminster, although this was in the cards in the 1930s for London trains) so trains could run into Exeter Central. If, as mentioned upthread, the North Devon main line from Okehampton to Plymouth stayed open and thriving, I think there would have been expresses from Waterloo to Plymouth and Barnstaple, possibly 1 tph to each. Breaking services at Exeter Central would make sense, as the people of North, East, and possibly South Devon would want to go to the city centre. No doubt something would have had to be done to sort out Exeter St Davids – which would have been far beyond capacity in its current form – if any extra trains were to travel across Exeter. I'm not sure an avoiding line would have survived to this day if it had been constructed, so the whole station would probably have been rebuilt or resited. If you consider the case where the former GWR branches were also retained, you end up with an extremely busy Devon S-bahn.