What do Americans call railcars and railbuses?

[Ray Culp]

Hi everyone,

I'm helping a friend translate some text from German to English, and we were wondering what Americans call the vehicles referred to by Europeans, Australians, Indians and so forth as railcars and railbuses. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Ray

 

[rebmcr]

I don't know if they have ever even existed over there, they might not have a name for them.

 

[Mojo]

We often have confused Americans trying to use their Bus and Tram Pass on the Underground, so could one of these be similar? Cannot find anything on a brief Google search though, aside from the Tram systems in Las Vegas which appear to be Monorails/automated people mover systems.

 

[eastwestdivide]

They never had all that many, but a starting point would be the Budd RDC railcars (Rail Diesel Car). See http://budd-rdc.org/ for example.
Pretty sure railcar or railbus would be perfectly well understood.
Any American members on here?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't know if they have ever even existed over there, they might not have a name for them.

There was the Budd Rail Diesel Car (RDC) which is/was (there are still some about) a single vehicle DMU, a bit like a Class 153 but more American-looking.

I think the term "railcar" would work, I don't know if "DMU" is a well known term.

 

[Ray Culp]

Big thanks to everyone for the helpful suggestions!

 

[Busaholic]

We often have confused Americans trying to use their Bus and Tram Pass on the Underground, so could one of these be similar? Cannot find anything on a brief Google search though, aside from the Tram systems in Las Vegas which appear to be Monorails/automated people mover systems.

Tram systems in the USA postwar were often referred to as trolleys, so probably just as well London has no trolleybuses left!

 

[theageofthetra]

Tram systems in the USA postwar were often referred to as trolleys, so probably just as well London has no trolleybuses left!

There were plenty of interurban systems that used single tramway style vehicles. They were sadly destroyed in the 50's & 60's. There was also the famous Denver & Rio Grande 'Galoping Goose'railcars.

 

[AM9]

There were plenty of interurban systems that used single tramway style vehicles. They were sadly destroyed in the 50's & 60's. There was also the famous Denver & Rio Grande 'Galoping Goose'railcars.

The standard tramcar in the US swince the '30s was the PCC (President's Conference Committee) streetcar, named after the design committee that introduced it. The design has also been adopted outside the US, not only in Canada, but across Europe in the Tatra manufactured trams common in eastern- bloc countries.

Her is a video of the Mattapan High Speed line in Boston that still uses them today as a light railway extension of their subway system:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvRhi72zyeQ

 

[edwin_m]

"Dayliner" rings a bell for an American DMU.

The whole question of terminology for transport modes is fraught if you're trying to have a conversation with someone across the pond, or someone from a third country who learned their technical English there. For example:

US=UK
Streetcar=Tram
Tram=some kind of shuttle bus
Cable Car=Cable Tram
Gondola=Cable Car
Gondola=Open Wagon
A boat in Venice=Gondola
Heavy Rail=Metro
Metro=City area

The PCCs in Europe adopted the same control gear but looked very different externally - much smaller and lacking the distinctive rounded ends. Brussels had them too.

 

[randyrippley]

As far as I'm aware, the Budd inter urban vehicles were the original type to be called "railcars"

 

[Busaholic]

"Dayliner" rings a bell for an American DMU.

The whole question of terminology for transport modes is fraught if you're trying to have a conversation with someone across the pond, or someone from a third country who learned their technical English there. For example:

US=UK
Streetcar=Tram
Tram=some kind of shuttle bus
Cable Car=Cable Tram
Gondola=Cable Car
Gondola=Open Wagon
A boat in Venice=Gondola
Heavy Rail=Metro
Metro=City area

The PCCs in Europe adopted the same control gear but looked very different externally - much smaller and lacking the distinctive rounded ends. Brussels had them too.

Let's not forget that a cable car operator never sits on his fanny.

 

[Mojo]

Tram systems in the USA postwar were often referred to as trolleys, so probably just as well London has no trolleybuses left!

And indeed I think still are. I went to Philadelphia last year and their network of Trams was referred to on signage and official publicity as the "Trolley" service, with the Trams that run Underground in the city centre as the "Subway-Surface Trolley." In Washington however the single Tram line (only opened recently) was referred to as a "Streetcar," and in San Francisco the Muni Metro service which is like some sort of Premetro system seemed to be referred to as simply "Muni," but local news publications called the vehicles themselves "LRVs" (Light Rail Vehicles), but the above-ground heritage F and E routes as a "Streetcar."

 

[edwin_m]

The light rail in San Diego is officially referred to as the trolley, despite it being a largely segregated system like Manchester Metrolink which even runs overnight freight on some routes. According to Wikipedia they are planning to build some less segregated routes that they refer to as streetcars, rather like Portland Oregon.

 

[Busaholic]

And indeed I think still are. I went to Philadelphia last year and their network of Trams was referred to on signage and official publicity as the "Trolley" service, with the Trams that run Underground in the city centre as the "Subway-Surface Trolley." In Washington however the single Tram line (only opened recently) was referred to as a "Streetcar," and in San Francisco the Muni Metro service which is like some sort of Premetro system seemed to be referred to as simply "Muni," but local news publications called the vehicles themselves "LRVs" (Light Rail Vehicles), but the above-ground heritage F and E routes as a "Streetcar."

I'm not sure whether San Francisco still has trolleybuses as well: if they do, then I think they are the only non-museum or non-heritage ones left in USA? Canada still has thriving trolleybuses, though.

 

[philden]

There are trolleybuses in Boston, including some hybrid CNG/electric vehicles than use trolleys and wires through a tunnel from the airport, the Silver line.

Phil.

 

[Taunton]

For the original question, Budd was the only significant manufacturer, in the 1950s, of railcars (most were single double-cab units although often assembled into sets). Generically they were more often than not called "Budd Cars", despite Budd having produced a large number of hauled coaches as well. Various railways devised their own names for them - Dayliner was the Canadian Pacific expression.

They were of course diesels. There had been a previous generation of gasoline-electric cars from the 1920s-30s, Brill being the principal manufacturer, which were often generically known as "Doodlebugs".

Budd used to have part ownership of Pressed Steel in the UK, who followed a surprisingly similar path, in mostly mass-producing bodywork for major car manufacturers but branching out into rail vehicles as something of a sideline. Budd had devised and patented a particular type of welding for bodywork manufacture that gave them a head-up into these areas.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The whole question of terminology for transport modes is fraught if you're trying to have a conversation with someone across the pond, or someone from a third country who learned their technical English there. For example:

Plus:
US Subway = EU Metro/Underground/Tube/U-Bahn
UK Subway = pedestrian underpass

The BBC kept on referring to Tokyo's "Subway" during the gas attacks, but I've no idea if that's what the Japanese call their metro system.

Toronto calls its metro system the Subway.
Washington's is called the Metro.
There's a tendency to call metro systems by their brand name rather than the various technologies (so MARTA in Atlanta, BART in San Francisco, TRAX in Salt Lake).

 

[Taunton]

There's a tendency to call metro systems by their brand name

Toronto's subway has long been referred to locally as "The TTC" (Toronto Transit Commission). They also run the streetcars, but these are universally known as "Red Rockets". The newest cars are officially called this, but for generations of vehicles they have had that nickname.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Toronto's subway has long been referred to locally as "The TTC" (Toronto Transit Commission). They also run the streetcars, but these are universally known as "Red Rockets". The newest cars are officially called this, but for generations of vehicles they have had that nickname.

The TTC is curiously and interestingly old-fashioned in just about every way. A timewarp right back to the 1970s.

 

[Ray Culp]

Thank you all once again for the helpful information!

 

[341o2]

I'm not sure whether San Francisco still has trolleybuses as well: if they do, then I think they are the only non-museum or non-heritage ones left in USA? Canada still has thriving trolleybuses, though.

Only in Vancouver, although there have been proposals to reintroduce them such as Edmonton and Monrtreal. USA has Seattle, Dayton, Philadephia and Boston as well as San Fransisco

 

[341o2]

Tram systems in the USA postwar were often referred to as trolleys, so probably just as well London has no trolleybuses left!

Not so much of a problem as neither trams or subsequentially trolleybuses operated in the city or west end, rather the suburbs They terminated rather awkwardly geographically rather than passenger flows, such as Manor House or Warren st. Perhaps the only exception was Westminster and the Kingsway subway which remained tram operated until replaced by buses. Trolleybuses were very much a stop gap,apart from the former LUT routes, only a single generation. The war brought a stop to further conversions, in 1944 it was decided no more tram to trolleybus conversions, 1952 saw the first trolleybus to bus conversion, 1954 announced withdrawal of all trolleybuses, 1962 London's last trolleybus

 

[Calthrop]

There was also the famous Denver & Rio Grande 'Galoping Goose'railcars.

Being a bit pedantic -- these most-celebrated "galloping geese" were owned and operated not by the D&RG, but by the connecting, independent 3ft. gauge Rio Grande Southern Railroad.

There had been a previous generation of gasoline-electric cars from the 1920s-30s, Brill being the principal manufacturer, which were often generically known as "Doodlebugs".

Numerous such "gas-electric" railcars ran on rural lines in the US and Canada from about the 1920s to the 1950s -- in an attempt by the beleaguered railroads to maintain passenger services in country areas, while reducing costs. These vehicles -- known popularly as "galloping geese", "doodlebugs", or "jitneys" -- were frequently designed and constructed to carry mail / parcels / light freight as well as passengers; and were often quaintly crude and "home-made" in appearance.

A delightful article on the subject from a 1961 edition of Trains magazine, to which I am unfortunately unable to link direct: can be reached by Googling "doodlebug railcar" --it's a "hit" a little way down the sixth page, titled "Yet There Isn't A Train I Wouldn't Take: Railway Journeys -- It was always called the 'doodlebug'...".

 

[Taunton]

Being a bit pedantic -- these most-celebrated "galloping geese" were owned and operated not by the D&RG, but by the connecting, independent 3ft. gauge Rio Grande Southern Railroad.

Ostensibly independent, but the RGS was owned by the D&RG. This sort of thing was not uncommon over time in the US, and generally traced back to the original legal documents of the line, or subsequent ICC decision, which gave something to the original company, rights which would be lost in any takeover. Most prominent of many was the Cotton Belt, alias the St Louis South Western, which had some rights to operate from St Louis, Missouri, down to Texas. The Southern Pacific bought it out during its depression bankruptcy in 1932, but to keep these rights maintained it as an "independent" fiction, although fully integrated, for 60 years, until the SP was in turn bought out by the UP in 1992. Each purchase of a batch of SP locos always seemed to comprise about 15% which were in Cotton Belt livery, numbered in its own completely different sequence but operated in general pool, so you were as likely to see them on a California local as on their theoretical home turf.

 

[Calthrop]

Ostensibly independent, but the RGS was owned by the D&RG. This sort of thing was not uncommon over time in the US, and generally traced back to the original legal documents of the line, or subsequent ICC decision, which gave something to the original company, rights which would be lost in any takeover. Most prominent of many was the Cotton Belt, alias the St Louis South Western, which had some rights to operate from St Louis, Missouri, down to Texas. The Southern Pacific bought it out during its depression bankruptcy in 1932, but to keep these rights maintained it as an "independent" fiction, although fully integrated, for 60 years, until the SP was in turn bought out by the UP in 1992. Each purchase of a batch of SP locos always seemed to comprise about 15% which were in Cotton Belt livery, numbered in its own completely different sequence but operated in general pool, so you were as likely to see them on a California local as on their theoretical home turf.

Ha ! That'll teach me to nitpick... I had no idea that the seemingly smaller concern was owned by the bigger one: you live and learn ! Always found it interesting how the RGS formed the western side of the "narrow gauge rectangle" (sometimes called "circle", but it was basically a four-sided figure) of mostly-D&RG "proper" 3ft gauge trackage in south-west Colorado and northern New Mexico -- running kind-of parallel to the (still in traffic under preservation) D&RG Durango -- Silverton branch.

 

[Taunton]

I once saw one of the original "Galloping Geese", quite by chance, in of all places the Knotts Berry Farm theme park, which faces Disneyland over the road in California. All a bit hometown-folksy compared to the Disney effort, but they have a number of rail themes, and riding round in a steam train on what was a representation of the Old West, and having been held up by gunmen on horses who leapt aboard the train, walked up and down the cars with six-shooters bristling, and insulted the clothing of the female passengers, to the delight of the Miss Taunton of the era ... until it was her turn ("Miss K-Mart", indeed).

Anyway, on we went, and suddenly there was a real authentic Galloping Goose pushed down a spur, too quick to get my camera ready. I believe they still run it on special occasions. A Goose was bits of a 1920s Buick car mechanicals, with home-built adaptations and a sort of half-hitch trailer. It apparently inspired Colonel Stephens in the UK to do the same sort of thing with old Ford Model Ts and some amateurish-looking bodywork. The one in California is actually very worthy of a proper rail museum, original RGS silver paint scheme and such like. There are videos of it running there on YouTube.

 

[Calthrop]

Those early, primitive railmotors of home-built aspect included some real oddities. Yes, Colonel S. and his back-to-back Fords and Shefflexes: which I've read were quite major-league uncomfortable and noisy to travel in. I understand that Australia, too, had some marvellous specimens of this sort of thing.

 

[Busaholic]

Not so much of a problem as neither trams or subsequentially trolleybuses operated in the city or west end, rather the suburbs They terminated rather awkwardly geographically rather than passenger flows, such as Manor House or Warren st. Perhaps the only exception was Westminster and the Kingsway subway which remained tram operated until replaced by buses. Trolleybuses were very much a stop gap,apart from the former LUT routes, only a single generation. The war brought a stop to further conversions, in 1944 it was decided no more tram to trolleybus conversions, 1952 saw the first trolleybus to bus conversion, 1954 announced withdrawal of all trolleybuses, 1962 London's last trolleybus

All correct, apart from one small thing. The withdrawal of trolleybuses was not meant to apply to the postwar B.U.T. trolleybuses operating out of Fulwell and Isleworth depots, at least not until they were time-expired in the 1970s or beyond, but in the end pragmatism won and conversion of those routes was announced about 1961 (?).

I would be lying if I said I remember trams on Westminster Bridge or Embankment but I'm pretty sure I saw them there. I certainly did travel on the tram route from Woolwich and Eltham that terminated on the south side of Southwark Bridge, on several occasions. My maternal grandmother lived adjacent to the Eltham Church stop and, as a 3 and 4 year old I was fascinated by these strange creatures which I viewed from her window.

Incidentally, the City of London was awash with trolleybuses. Aldgate and Moorgate (Finsbury Square) were the principal places but Liverpool Street Station in Bishopsgate saw a U-turn middle of the road terminus of the 649, which was perpetuated by its successor 149 bus route.