Pretty much everyone, from the top to the bottom.
And frankly if you are comparing the railways to a second hand car dealer, you have accepted there is a problem.
UK example: Annual ticket Brighton to London: GBP 4096 (80km)
Belgium example: Annual ticket Liege to Brussels: EUR 2229 = GBP 1722 (95km)
Netherlands example: Annual ticket Nijmegen to the Hague: EUR 3984 = GBP 3078 (137km)
Does anyone still think UK fares are good value?
(Sources: nationalrail.co.uk, sncb.be, ns.nl - routes chosen at random)
Well, CrossCountry did isolate the tilt on the 221's, which was a stupid idea, and the only unelectrified line Virgin Voyagers actually go on is the North Wales Coast line. Virgin used to run a Pendolino to Crewe, then have a class 57 tug it along the North Wales Coast line. Not anymore, wasting the Voyagers. I totally agree with you on these.Poor quality trains such as Voyagers. Cross Country are stuck with narrow bodied trains that don't have the advantage of tilting on bends in order to keep up speed. Who ever was the idiot who thought these would be good for long distance travel?
Diesel trains (Virgin Voyagers) making entire journeys under wires on the WCML whilst their is a chronic shortage of such trains on non electrified routes.
Well, CrossCountry did isolate the tilt on the 221's, which was a stupid idea, and the only unelectrified line Virgin Voyagers actually go on is the North Wales Coast line. Virgin used to run a Pendolino to Crewe, then have a class 57 tug it along the North Wales Coast line. Not anymore, wasting the Voyagers. I totally agree with you on these.
The bit in bold that you put is why I put 'a stupid idea'.Poor quality trains such as Voyagers. Cross Country are stuck with narrow bodied trains that don't have the advantage of tilting on bends in order to keep up speed. Who ever was the idiot who thought these would be good for long distance travel? Seats not aligned with windows and seat backs reflecting on the windows.
Expensive one way fares with returns sometimes only £1 more. This discourages people from using the railway to tour the country.
Some return fares are dearer if you stay away for a longer period. Why should that be? You are taking a seat on the a train & doing the same miles.
Having to purchase split tickets because they often screw you for long distance tickets. This is often occurs where you have to change company en-route but sometimes can occur when you change trains with the same company. When someone buys a through ticket, it should be the cheapest available and the computer systems of the different TOC's should 'talk to each other' to give the passenger the cheapest deal. Between Scotland & the south - it is often cheaper to fly than use the train.
Whilst I appreciate the peaks & troughs of demand, it is a real pain having to book specific trains yonks ahead in order to get a lower fare. For leisure travel, I would rather travel by car as then I can decline to make the journey should the weather be bad or I am ill without incurring loss. I would like to see the railways have a 3 colour system for fares with train schedules marked in green on timetables as offering the lowest fares and orange being the highest. Where a journey crosses two such zones, we could have mid priced fares with schedules marked in yellow. Using such a system for turn up and go fares would be much more user friendly and induce more people to travel by train. Unfortunately, the rail industry does not want more people travelling as they don't have enough rolling stock - hence the high fares.
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Well, CrossCountry did isolate the tilt on the 221's, which was a stupid idea, and the only unelectrified line Virgin Voyagers actually go on is the North Wales Coast line. Virgin used to run a Pendolino to Crewe, then have a class 57 tug it along the North Wales Coast line. Not anymore, wasting the Voyagers. I totally agree with you on these.
The bit in bold that you put is why I put 'a stupid idea'.
Couldn't they just keep the tilt isolated EXCEPT between Birmingham-Manchester
Idea:No. It's not just a switch to flick. They have physical bars fitted to stop the ability to tilt
Idea:
Run a Birmingham-Manchester service with a train with tilt ON.
Now about my Virgin Voyager postBut why? The time saved would be minimal and probably would need a lot of timetable alterations to make everything fit.
Tilting trains are not the be all and end all. I would rather have a more reliable train than a tilting one
Yes but they were added AFTER the Pendolino drags dissapearedEver heard of Shrewsbury or Blackpool ?
Not sure how relevant train fares in other countries with higher subsidies is.
Can you find a better value way to do this journey? i.e. under 15p a mile? If so, why does everyone get the train?
I preferred New Southgate because it was relatively less packed than the Piccadilly Line, and I was very likely to get a seat at Finsbury Park (the peak trains ran fast to Finsbury Park, rather conveniently). So, GN to Moorgate then the H&C Line became my route of choice to university in the third year. Sure, they're both less frequent but the time difference is negligible and I get a seat for most of my journey, even in peak times.
Comparing this to my route via Arnos Grove and King's X - uncomfortable tube ride with no chance of a seat and stops at 9 stations. Then, it's the luck of a draw that I get on a H&C line train, never mind getting a seat. I missed a few 9am classes this way, so NR saved my hide for the 9am lectures.
Not sure how relevant train fares in other countries with higher subsidies is.
Can you find a better value way to do this journey? i.e. under 15p a mile? If so, why does everyone get the train?
Not sure how relevant train fares in other countries with higher subsidies is.
Can you find a better value way to do this journey? i.e. under 15p a mile? If so, why does everyone get the train?
Not everyone does get the train, as is demonstrated by daily congestion on parts of the UK motorway network.
For optimal value, drive and find three other people who wish to do the same journey, then divide the mileage costs amongst all four people. That would be cheaper per individual, I expect, than all those four people each paying to travel by train. The driving option also negates the possibility of having to pay for a bus or taxi from origin to station, then from station to destination, but on the other hand there is the possible added expense of parking at the destination.
[*]Lack of overnight trains. Granted, there may not be as much demand as on the continent, but you can get to pretty much anywhere in Europe on a sleeper from Germany. Here, we have only two sleeper routes and very limited night trains.
It's very relevant to a discussion on likes and dislikes about train travel in the UK, if one of the 'dislikes' is the reason for these higher fares. Not so much lack of state support; subsidies are massive but largely go into the pockets of shareholders, or funding an inefficient bureaucracy to allocate funds between companies, rather than a nationally owned and funded network run as a public service. But we won't see any change as long as British people keep voting for Tory governments.
[*]How pretty much everything, except for St Pancras, some airport services and TVMs, is in English only. European countries generally have information in the native language and English, so I think we should make more of an effort to make it easier for those visiting us.[/list]