What does HC mean on a 450

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6Gman

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Noted a number of Class 450s (on a visit to the LSWR yesterday) with HC above the unit numbers.

The significance of this is ...... ?

[My guess was something to do with Hampton Court, but could be miles out! High capacity? Hugely comfortable?]
 
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Failed Unit

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Noted a number of Class 450s (on a visit to the LSWR yesterday) with HC above the unit numbers.

The significance of this is ...... ?

[My guess was something to do with Hampton Court, but could be miles out! High capacity? Hugely comfortable? ]

LoL,

No it is high capacity, they have taken the 1st class out if I remember correctly.
 

MCR247

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Also appear on Weybridge via Virginia Water services and I have seen them on Readings.

'Windsor line' workings don't just consist of Waterloo - Windsor & Eton Riverside, but generally services that go on the 'Windsor Line' at Clapham; including Hounslow Loops etc
 

Crossover

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Me and a friend had been wondering about the difference in these when we saw one the other week........

'Windsor line' workings don't just consist of Waterloo - Windsor & Eton Riverside, but generally services that go on the 'Windsor Line' at Clapham; including Hounslow Loops etc

...........at Portsmouth Harbour!
 

David10

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Have to get to Northam depot somehow, presumably SWT have a few Pompey/Southampton diagrams where no first class is advertised, cheaper than sending them as ECS.
 

TEW

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Have to get to Northam depot somehow, presumably SWT have a few Pompey/Southampton diagrams where no first class is advertised, cheaper than sending them as ECS.

They're all booked to have First Class but the HC units sometimes tag along in 12 or 8 car formations with standard units providing First Class somewhere in the train.
 

WVL14

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HC units are *supposed to be* restricted to Windsor line diagrams (Windsor, Hounslow, Weybridge work, some trips to Reading). No main line work although that does happen from time to time.

They move between Clapham Yard and Northam for maintenance on two Q trips, which are 5B97 09+52 Clapham Yard to Northam Depot, and 5Y96 10+55 Northam Depot to Claphm Yard.

Hope that helps.
 

Goldfish62

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They're due to revert once the 458 programme is complete, aren't they?

I assume they'll be converted back right at the start of the 458 lengthening programme, otherwise I would have thought the chances of getting an HC unit to Portsmouth or Weymouth will be quite high as they gradually get displaced from their current confines.:D
 

Coxster

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Also note the numbers are 450/5. Units 043-070 were the ones converted into the high-capacity (HC) specification and were subsequently renumbered 543-570 so still follow the original sequence This means the fleet is now: 001-042, 543-570, & 071-127.
 

WVL14

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All HC units 543-570 will have first class reinstated and revert to 043-070 when the 5 car 458s start to appear :)
 

swt_passenger

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Have to get to Northam depot somehow, presumably SWT have a few Pompey/Southampton diagrams where no first class is advertised, cheaper than sending them as ECS.

No - they always run to Northam as ECS, normally from Clapham Yard, as already mentioned ^^^ there are specific up and down class 5 'Q paths' (run as required) to move them between the depots, just like for the 455s and 458s when moving to/from Bournemouth.

If you think about it though there are already 450/0 and 444 ECS paths from Waterloo to Northam depot anyway formed off morning peak arrivals at Waterloo, so why would 450/5 ECS runs be any less likely? There are longish distance ECS runs going on all day every day, it's normal practice.

If you see one in service in Hampshire it's simply because using any unit is better than a cancellation.
 

Matt Taylor

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We see them from time to time in Portsmouth but if they appear on a mainline run it is most likely to be from Clapham depot, they often appear on peak time Woking-Waterloo trains (2Fxx).
 

387star

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I wouldn't pay for FC on class 450s anyway. The seats are basically what you find on Southern 377s with a 2+2 seating arrangement in standard class
 

fgwrich

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I wouldn't pay for FC on class 450s anyway. The seats are basically what you find on Southern 377s with a 2+2 seating arrangement in standard class

vs 2+3 in standard on SWT, so at least the difference is more than an anti-mascara.

And better width seats, Extra overhead Lights (that acutally seem to work), Curtains (More than a 377) and power sockets.
 

David Goddard

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All HC units 543-570 will have first class reinstated and revert to 043-070 when the 5 car 458s start to appear :)

Thank goodness for that- I was hoping that would be the case.
I never understood why they did not just convert the 458s to Standard only when they were refreshed prior to re-introduction to SWT. This was around about the same time as the 450s were converted and is the same number of sets bar 2.
Such a move would have:
-Provided the required HC units needed to provide more seating on the Windsor/Hounslow services.
-Saved a lot of money by removing the need to perform work on two fleets of trains (450s could have stayed as was)
-Avoided the creation of a mixed Desiro fleet that can not be sent anywhere.
-Kept Desiros on the Reading line!
 

swt_passenger

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I never understood why they did not just convert the 458s to Standard only when they were refreshed prior to re-introduction to SWT.

They were the wrong colour, obviously... :D

Seriously though, at the time it was done (and based on the agreed fleet intentions in the 2007 SWT franchise specification) they firmly expected to order additional trailer cars to extend the converted HCs up to 5 car.

Then what it said in the OJEU tender document was: "120 to 180 vehicles (20 metre) to operate in 5 car formation. (or approx. 100 m length equivalent)." I think that was generally considered to mean 24 to 36 x 5 car units. But it could equally have included a number of individual 5th cars for the 450/5s.

Also, at the time the HC conversions were being thought of, neither the 460s or 456s had become available, and of course the Desiro was still in series production for LM - so it made most sense to earmark 450s for extension.
 

TEW

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450s are more flexible than the 458s as well, they can run in 4 and 8 carriage formations, splitting and joining through out the day, as they do now. 458s are unable to split and join throughout the day because it takes to long. Dedicating them mainly to Waterloo-Reading services alleviates that problem. They all run in 8 carriage formations all day apart from the two 4 carriage units working Guildford-Ascot services.
 

455driver

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Have to get to Northam depot somehow, presumably SWT have a few Pompey/Southampton diagrams where no first class is advertised, cheaper than sending them as ECS.

Nope, they run in one of the daily ECS moves from Waterloo or Clapham jn to get to Northam.

They do sometimes escape during disruption though, quite often in fact.
Occasionally they can be coupled up to normal unit(s) on Pompy or Poole services with the normal unit(s) providing the first class.

They are normally used on Waterloo to Windsor, Weybridge, Hounslow, Shepperton (via Richmond) services.

Funnily enough they dont have many more (standard) seats than the ordinary 450s because, although they have had standard seats fitted in the former first class area, they have lost a seat off most of the 3 aside seats in the other coaches to create more standing room.
 
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