What happens if you can't touch in with Oyster?

[Waddon]

Recently at St. Pancras late at night there was a fire alarm, so all the barriers were open and set to exit-only, as a result none of the touch-in points on the barriers were working (although security staff on duty advised that it was safe to continue to the platforms as it had been identified as an alarm fault).

Under those, or similar circumstances, would an Oyster holder be required to buy a paper ticket, or would it be justifiable for them to board without touching in and explain it at the other end?

 

[W230]

Under those, or similar circumstances, would an Oyster holder be required to buy a paper ticket, or would it be justifiable for them to board without touching in and explain it at the other end?

Guessing your not talking about LUL but a couple of weeks ago I had a similar situation where I couldn't touch in at Finsbury Park due to the Oyster readers all saying "closed" on them. When I got to my destination on the Victoria Line I went to the assistance/tickets window inside the barrier to explain that I hadn't touched in and to pay the fare but was approached by a member of staff who just let me through without charging me once I had said what had happened.

I wouldn't have even considered buying a paper ticket until you had suggested it here though i'm assuming you're referring to National Rail services as opposed to Underground? I can just imagine being stopped by an RPI and trying to explain this if i'd been, for example, heading south somehwere on NR by Oyster!

 

[maniacmartin]

If the oyster readers are broken, could it be argued that the full range of tickets was not available at the origin?
For LU, the oyster price is often cheaper than the paper price.

In any case, I would have sought authorisation from a member of station staff.

 

[wibble]

You shuold be OK to just touch out at your destination. You'll be charged the maximum fare for the journey (because you couldn't touch in) but you can claim a refund on the difference in fares from the Oyster help desk.

There will be a record of the gates/readers being in emergency mode which would support your refund request with the help desk.

 

[RJ]

First Great Western routinely switch their Oyster readers off at night and say it's ok to only touch in at one end, then have the charge corrected by the helpline.

 

[bb21]

The only problem is that it is expensive to call the helpline.

 

[bnm]

So, in these scenarios, the passenger, at additional cost to themselves (0843 numbers are rarely inclusive) has to go out of their way to chase up a refund. Not only is there a additional cost for the call but there's also the time involved.

With those not bothering to chase up a refund and the income TfL receive from the 0843 calls, its a nice little money spinner which is fleecing customers who have done nothing wrong.

 

[RJ]

That's more or less it. Then again, the FGW customer service rep I had the correspondence from appeared to be based in Plymouth. If they were a regular Oyster user or ever had to use the helpline themselves, I suspect they would be more sympathetic.

 

[Nym]

So, in these scenarios, the passenger, at additional cost to themselves (0843 numbers are rarely inclusive) has to go out of their way to chase up a refund. Not only is there a additional cost for the call but there's also the time involved.

With those not bothering to chase up a refund and the income TfL receive from the 0843 calls, its a nice little money spinner which is fleecing customers who have done nothing wrong.

Or you can get it settled at any staffed TfL ticket office with appropriately trained staff (Most are)...

 

[Be3G]

In my experience, tube station ticket offices are reluctant to sort out Oyster refunds concerning NR journeys/stations. Perhaps the situation is different at London Overground stations though.

Either way, a free alternative to the 0843 number is requesting a refund by e-mail, which I have done in the past. They can take weeks to respond though.

 

[RJ]

Far too long. FGW are lucky that I'm away from London most of the time and not using their overnight services any more, else I'd be making up a whole heap of noise about it.

 

[barrykas]

Note that it's generally only possible for a Ticket Office to resolve an incomplete journey where you've been unable to touch out the same day, and not at all if you've made another journey using PAYG (other than a bus journey) since.

 

[island]

So, in these scenarios, the passenger, at additional cost to themselves (0843 numbers are rarely inclusive) has to go out of their way to chase up a refund. Not only is there a additional cost for the call but there's also the time involved.

With those not bothering to chase up a refund and the income TfL receive from the 0843 calls, its a nice little money spinner which is fleecing customers who have done nothing wrong.

There is an 0845 number as well, which while not much cheaper, is at least not a revenue share.

 

[maniacmartin]

Saynoto0870.com also lists a few geographic numbers that may work

 

[MikeWh]

First Great Western routinely switch their Oyster readers off at night and say it's ok to only touch in at one end, then have the charge corrected by the helpline.

Take a look at this response to a FOI request about a similar incident at London Bridge last month. I'm pleased to see that TfL are taking action to refund unaware customers and it does appear that they are discussing the issue with TOCs. Perhaps someone having trouble with FGW now might want to write to TfL asking them to intervene in the same way.

 

[dzug2]

There is an 0845 number as well, which while not much cheaper, is at least not a revenue share.

Free with some tariffs with some companies - BT for a start, and I think some others have followed suit.

 

[howittpie]

There is always a fire alarm test in the middle of the morning on Wednesday at London Bridge which turns all the Southern platform gates to exit only I wonder how many unsuspecting passengers are charged the maxinum fare. Surely they could do the test when there are no scheduled departures during the night.

 

[Deerfold]

Free with some tariffs with some companies - BT for a start, and I think some others have followed suit.

EDITED - so long as your call is under an hour, which isn't dreadful but irritating if you've been on hold a long time...

 

[bicbasher]

The only problem is that it is expensive to call the helpline.

Which is why I visit the TfL website and use the 'Help & Contact' section instead of contacting their 0845 rip-off number which can cost as much and more than the refund.

 

[RJ]

Take a look at this response to a FOI request about a similar incident at London Bridge last month. I'm pleased to see that TfL are taking action to refund unaware customers and it does appear that they are discussing the issue with TOCs. Perhaps someone having trouble with FGW now might want to write to TfL asking them to intervene in the same way.

Interesting - TfL have always been quite good with their attempts to preempt issues with the system and subsequently compensate users. Oyster seems to be seen as a liability to some TOCs, but seeing as it's here now, they might as well make the effort to help passengers along rather than deflecting the responsibility elsewhere.

 

[Eagle]

The only problem is that it is expensive to call the helpline.

TfL switchboard: 020-7222 5600

(Note how they've sneakily changed their actual landline number from the old 7222 1234 so that people have to call the 084x numbers...)

 

[34D]

Take a look at this response to a FOI request about a similar incident at London Bridge last month. I'm pleased to see that TfL are taking action to refund unaware customers and it does appear that they are discussing the issue with TOCs. Perhaps someone having trouble with FGW now might want to write to TfL asking them to intervene in the same way.

Very well-written questions Mike. A couple of possible follow-up questions:

How many customers who exited London Bridge LU subsequently had an uncompleted journey with an exit at another NR station which is served by trains from London Bridge (so most of South London, and the Thameslink route to Elstree)? Can such customers be identified and auto-refunded?

How many customers have contacted the Oyster helpline as a result of issues at London Bridge on this evening, and what proportion were granted a refund?

 

[Deerfold]

TfL switchboard: 020-7222 5600

(Note how they've sneakily changed their actual landline number from the old 7222 1234 so that people have to call the 084x numbers...)

No, that's been the switchboard number for over 10 years. 7222 1234 was the travel enquiry line. I'd be surprised if the switchboard will put you through to the Oyster helpline rather than just giving you the number for it.

 

[RJ]

It's a loophole that works, although exposing it in public will probably see staff being briefed to provide the number to the helpline instead.