(What if) TFL money saving ideas

[Trainfan344]

I did search through the last few pages of this sub forum looking for a similar thread but couldn't find anything .

With TFL seemingly running out of money fast and still struggling to make a deal with the government, what if they had to shut stations/lines.

A few suggestions I would make include:

West India Quay

The Benefit here is that if it's not open then TFL save money on having to maintain it. It wouldn't be a big saving but with Canary Wharf being a 5 minute walk away it seems like a quick saving.

Covent Garden

This might seem controversial but with Leicester Square a few minutes away which is more accessible. I'm not sure on the state of the lifts but they seemed to be suffering from age the last time I was there a couple of years ago. If the lifts are due for replacement soon then it could be cheaper to close the station.

Shut the Bakerloo

Without doubt the most extreme measure I am proposing.

The line has the oldest stock on the network, There are 6 stations on the entire line that aren't served by other lines, half of which are in zone 1. These can be served by either replacement bus or abandoned depending on how extreme cost savings have to be.

The main issue is that this would leave Marylebone without an underground service but this could possibly be resolved by signposting Baker Street and Edgware Road stations from the main station exit.

I wonder what other people's opinions on these ideas would be. Are there other cost saving measures you would propose?

 

[Lewlew]

So with passengers just starting to come back and trains getting busy you want to close everything?

If there were any genuine savings to be had then they would have been acted upon ages ago.

 

[matt_world2004]

What about instead of service reductions they work on licensing out their ibus technology and their oyster cpay technology to other bus operators around the world . Tfl could also use their expertise to run rail and bus franchises around the world with the commercial revenue from these activities feeding into subsidising their main network. Like MTR corporation in Hong Kong or Deutsch Bahn with Arriva.

Being able to directly operate some bus and rail services that they currently franchise. May even allow them to save money if they can run it cheaper than the operator bids.

Renegotiating the travel card agreement so that lower mileage services like buses and tubes get a fairer deal would also bring in more income

And refusing to serve Heathrow until they reduce their track access charges could save money without providing a reduction in service in the long term

 

[Nym]

For one. Oyster isn't a TfL product. It's majority owned by Cubic Transportation.
For another TfL can't even run their own services properly, let alone anyone elses.
Finally. Heathrow's infractucture is their own to do what they wish with. If TfL / Government wanted lower track charges they could have chosen to fund it in the first place.

 

[matt_world2004]

For one. Oyster isn't a TfL product. It's majority owned by Cubic Transportation.

Incorrect.

Finally. Heathrow's infractucture is their own to do what they wish with. If TfL / Government wanted lower track charges they could have chosen to fund it in the first place.

Good . Then terminate the trains at Hayes until Heathrow decides to lower the track infrastructure charges

 

[Meglos]

Good . Then terminate the trains at Hayes until Heathrow decides to lower the track infrastructure charges

All that would do is overload the Piccadilly line

 

[matt_world2004]

All that would do is overload the Piccadilly line

What with the less than 10 passengers that's is on the average tfl rail train from Heathrow to Hayes

 

[JonathanH]

All that would do is overload the Piccadilly line

...on which they suggested they would also start to charge premium fares to raise extra revenue.

 

[Paul Jones 88]

Charge half fares for children again, I had to pay when I was a child. That should raise a decent amount of money

 

[JonathanH]

Charge half fares for children again, I had to pay when I was a child. That should raise a decent amount of money

There is an argument for it to be parental means tested, not withdrawn from all.

 

[Edsmith]

Closing Covent Garden and West India Quay temporarily doesn't seem unreasonable. Closing the entire Bakerloo Line seems a bit severe, maybe just suspend the Piccadilly Circus to Elephant & Castle section?

 

[Horizon22]

Incorrect.



Good . Then terminate the trains at Hayes until Heathrow decides to lower the track infrastructure charges

Nowhere near enough capacity for Hayes considering the Crossrail service planned to run. There's no other suitable place to terminate with the exception of maybe West Drayton P5 - although lots of drivers don't sign past Heathrow Junction.

Whilst you might not want to service Heathrow due to the high track charges, trains still have to terminate somewhere. Or do you want to shaft all the users between Hayes and Paddington with a lower frequency?

 

[Bald Rick]

The Benefit here is that if it's not open then TFL save money on having to maintain it. It wouldn't be a big saving but with Canary Wharf being a 5 minute walk away it seems like a quick saving.

how much does the station cost to run? And how much maintenance would be needed even if no passengers?

it’s perhaps thousand, when we’re trying to save billions.

 

[deltic]

Depends on how much money you are looking to save. To save serious amounts of money you would close the network down after 11pm Monday-Wednesday, and not open it till around 7am on Saturday and mid-day on Sunday. Close more stations in the evening and weekends in the City which remains far quieter than pre-covid. Make the Waterloo & City line Monday-Friday peaks only. Mothball the Chesham branch and Hainault to Woodford on the Central Line. Withdraw Piccadilly line services between Rayners Lane and Uxbridge, withdraw Hammersmith & City line between Barking and Aldgate, terminate all Met Line services at Baker Street. Generally, reduce frequencies outside busy times and maybe stop running services at the end of most lines outside peaks and daytimes on Saturday and Sundays.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Bus fares up to a flat rate £2.

Sell or scrap the borris masters


Extend both the congestion charge and low emission zones out to the M25 boundaries so that basically anything driving into a London borough anywhere gets stung


Find a technological solution to associate railcards and other discounts with contactless payment cards or devices so that the existing Oyster card system could be scaled back with the exception of under 12 and freedom passes and other concession holders for whatever reason


Introduce a flat rate £1 charge for all freedom pass holders for TfL rail Overground and tube journeys and probably the DLR as well


Introduce a fifty pence flat rate fair4all under 12 on rail and DLR and tube services


Close any stations which are inviable at quieter times although I don't necessarily agree with this as I should think the savings are minimal and the impact on passengers is far higher


Read apply or or make redundant as many managers and ancillary staff as is practical cutting out additional layers of unnecessary rolls

 

[Trainfan344]

Closing Covent Garden and West India Quay temporarily doesn't seem unreasonable. Closing the entire Bakerloo Line seems a bit severe, maybe just suspend the Piccadilly Circus to Elephant & Castle section?

I missed the crossover at Piccadilly Circus when looking on Cartro Metro, otherwise the only other option was to terminate at Paddington.

 

[adamedwards]

Cancel all trains to Uxbridge. Until their MP coughs up more money!

 

[cle]

Standardize fares (bus fares are a minimum tube fare)

Overhaul the bus network - cut bus frequencies and routes. Make it a feeder network. Far too many empty ones.

Not sure Covent Garden would be a huge saving. Or any single station. But if we were doing that, it makes sense. Charing Cross Bakerloo? Or Northern? Not sure on many others.


Bakerloo closure is totally, utterly absurd.

 

[nkvuong]

Stop serving areas outside London, e.g. terminating the Met line at Northwood, Central line at Woodford. The Home Counties can then take over with steam trains or buses

 

[Enthusiast]

I missed the crossover at Piccadilly Circus when looking on Cartro Metro, otherwise the only other option was to terminate at Paddington.

IIRC the crossover at Piccadilly Circus is a trailer. From the Oxford Circus direction trains would be able to terminate on the southbound platform only. The current Bakerloo service level is 20-22 tph for most of the day which requires two platforms at Elephant with "stepping back" employed virtually all day six days a week. I don't know what level of service a single platform at Piccadilly Circus would support.

 

[Edsmith]

IIRC the crossover at Piccadilly Circus is a trailer. From the Oxford Circus direction trains would be able to terminate on the southbound platform only. The current Bakerloo service level is 20-22 tph for most of the day which requires two platforms at Elephant with "stepping back" employed virtually all day six days a week. I don't know what level of service a single platform at Piccadilly Circus would support.

It's been done before during engineering work.

 

[SynthD]

I don’t understand how half these would save money, or even be neutral.

I suspect they’ve already done all of the ideas that are sensible in the short and long term, and are far through the list of ideas that are bad in the long term.

Hillingdon is also in Uxbridge and South Ruislip, so the new terminus would be Ickenham.

 

[ScotGG]

Many would save a pittance. Would help cripple much of the wider economy though.

 

[mmh]

West India Quay

What savings do you think will happen from closing unmanned DLR stops?

 

[Enthusiast]

It's been done before during engineering work.

Were 20 tph maintained?

 

[MotCO]

There is an argument for it to be parental means tested, not withdrawn from all.

Or make child fares only free for school journeys - i.e. in school uniform or in the time bands of 8.00 - 9.00 and 3.00 - 4.00.

Agree with charging £1 flat fares for Over 60 or Freedom card holders.

Also, for bus routes, no longer timetable them all to run end to end - some routes have variable loadings at the extremes, so match to demand by turning some short.

 

[A0wen]

There are only 2 approaches and TFL are going to have to do a bit of both:

Increase revenue - which means fare increases.

Cost reductions - be that fewer employees, fewer services, extending the life of rolling stock, no new capital projects etc.

 

[TheBigD]

Close it all down and convert the trackbed and tunnels to cycleway and walkways.

(Yes, I am joking)

 

[philosopher]

I think I have suggested this before, however TfL could close the Met line between Rayners Lane and Uxbridge. Those living on the Uxbridge branch of the Met line would have to take the Piccadilly line into Central London, which is generally slower.

Might make a certain high profile MP notice when his constituents start getting annoyed!

 

[A0wen]

I think I have suggested this before, however TfL could close the Met line between Rayners Lane and Uxbridge. Those living on the Uxbridge branch of the Met line would have to take the Piccadilly line into Central London, which is generally slower.

Might make a certain high profile MP notice when his constituents start getting annoyed!

Uxbridge was originally a Met station - so curtailing the Piccadilly at Rayners Lane would be more sensible (and IIRC was the situation a few years ago except at peak hours).

The silly 5th form 'well their local MP' type remarks really aren't befitting of adult conversations.

A more serious review of "parallel" running might make sense e.g. what is the purpose of the Hammersmith & City line given the modified Circle line ? It replicates a bit of the Circle and a bit of the District. Bakerloo Queens Park - Harrow is duplicated by Overground.