Passenger John
Member
Does anyone know what the current situation is with the Bedford to Cambridge link. Will it ever be built, it has all gone very quiet lately in the Cambridge area.
Oxford section has slipped slightly due to other issues, electrification isn't one of them.
I will stick my neck out and say the bit beyond Bedford wont happen anytime soon.
Oxford - Blethcley/MK will happen. The Marston Vale may get electrified but there sesms to be lots of problems in building the line from Bedford. I hope i am wrong...............
The Oxford-Bedford section is relatively easy because it is an existing though partly mothballed railway, so although most of the infrastructure requires replacement there is at least no debate about what route it should take and very few planning issues. Because the line onwards from Bedford is disused and has been lost in some places, there has to be consideration of alternative routes which are probably better transport-wise but more expensive and raise more concerns with the locals if they go where no railway has gone before. Whatever results (if anything) will be a major transport project with significant potential for planning delays and will need the kind of political support that HS2 has got if it is to succeed.
Not to mention that also during all the dithering vast sums have been spent building a whole new A421 - not just upgrading an existing road, but building a whole new dual cabbageway alongside it.
If the Country can afford to build a whole new cabbageway, why can't it afford to build a whole new railway? Never mind this route and that route and the round-the-houses route - just build a nice new railway, as if it were a nice new cabbageway, and then put rails on it. Same philosophy, different hardware. Voila! Problem solved.
Disadvantages:
* Longer time Oxford / Cambridge
* Misses Bedford from through route
* more interference with MML / ECML
* won't get built either
Edited for you...
While it might be useful in its own right - Stevenage-Luton-MK (and connections for the Midlands/North) is probably a large market - it would be ridiculously circuitous as a route to Cambridge and beyond.isn't ther a more southern route being looked essentially between Luton and Stevenage?
Advantages:
* connects two large centres of population, not currently connected - creating much more demand for that section alone
* shorter distance new build - although maybe more expensive / km
Disadvantages:
* Longer time Oxford / Cambridge
* Misses Bedford from through route
* more interference with MML / ECML
Edited for you...
Don't disagree - I would be surprised if once the costs & benefits are better understood that this would feature anywhere near the top of a priority list for potential rail investments accross the country.
Of the two options I outlined then one will not gain enough use on the new build section for local journeys and the other will not be sufficiently attractive for Longer distance journeys. I would think to have any hope of being built then it would need to fulfill both criteria.
Isn't a report due sometime on these alternatives? We'll then see how right or otherwise we are.
If the Country can afford to build a whole new cabbageway, why can't it afford to build a whole new railway? Never mind this route and that route and the round-the-houses route - just build a nice new railway, as if it were a nice new cabbageway, and then put rails on it. Same philosophy, different hardware. Voila! Problem solved.
Re. the 'cabbageway' - remember that it was built on an existing (mothballed) railway alignment, so isn't really 'brand new'. Of course, it's now occupying both of the previous rail routes through the city to the west that EWR would probably want to use... :roll:
I said that whilst the building of a new route will be difficult, it can be mitigated by collaborating with road builders.
ie. There is a plan to dual the A428 all the way to MK - making a continuous A421/428 from Cambridge to Milton Keynes. They are also considering the possibility of extending all the way to Oxford which is what would make sense (link to A34/M40/A40 etc).
They could also collaborate with Bedford Borough Council
add a local station at Putnoe/Brickhill.
The current route via willington, blunham, sandy, gamlingay is all single track and so will require much more engineering than most are suggesting, plus it's been built on and for many it is the route to country parks and many amenities based on or near the river.
I think a dual carriageway between Luton and Hitchin/A1 is more required than a railway link that will clog up the mainlines and destroy housing in quite densely populated areas.
The goal is to get from Oxford to Cambridge. There really is only 1 route it can take from Bedford
I'm still surprised that in the short term they haven't revisited the option of running from Bedford - Peterborough. The Corby line will have capacity once dualled and re-signalled and the only 'new' track needed would be the south curve at Manton Junction.
I don't see how this helps much. It already is dual nearly all the way. The only single sections are between Cambourne and St Neots, and from M1 J13 into Milton Keynes. The latter is not relevant to any railway plans, and the former is not a large proportion.
That would be an excellent idea, but how are you going to get there from the MML north of Bedford? AFAICS it would require a tunnel under Manton Heights or else go a long way round and still need a fair bit of earthwork.
We reopen the Bedford-Northampton route, which would be a good idea in any case to facilitate journeys from the MML south of Bedford to Northampton, Birmingham and destinations in that direction. Such journeys are, indeed, currently possible even without the East-West link, but they are painfully slow and awkward as a result of going a long way round, the slowness of the Marston Vale line and the messing around changing at Bletchley and often MK as well depending on destination. EW would speed up the Marston Vale section but it still wouldn't be a very good route.
Then we build a link from the WCML at Wolverton along the Ouse Valley to Olney, with a station at Newport Pagnell and cutting through the ridge from there to Gayhurst. And then we reopen the Bedford-Sandy-Cambridge route.
Now there is a straightforward route for EW trains to run via MKC and Bedford Midland without any reversals and providing both those stations with a proper service, and we have also bypassed all the level crossings. Bingo!
I think you are missing the point. The traffic pinch points on the a421/428 are the main causes of traffic, these are St Neots/A1 and the black cat roundabout. This upgrade IS happening, it's a fact, there's no point in denying it. Collaborating and running a new line alongside the new formation keeps local planning objections to a minimum. How can you not see this? Or are you being deliberately obtuse?
yes a station in the north of bedford would be difficult, but we don't do things because they're easy do we? we do them because they're complicated, challenge us and bring a service improvement across the board.
crossrail is pretty difficult isn't it? needs quite a bit of tunneling doesn't it?
Thing is, before this even happens, they'll have to find a way of closing all the crossings on the Marston Vale line
Too many experts whining why other peoples ideas are rubbish without proposing their own ideological plan that can be rubbished back.
The quickest route is going to ruin someones view. The longest view will always be more expensive and literally anything we propose is going to have an alternative opinion.
If you starve a project of its oxygen it will dither and die and just about everyone on here is doing exactly that.. Even the EWR is a waste of space.. No commitment, no desire, no balls. Anything once proposed "railway wise" in Bedfordshire has stalled. Its so frustrating.
My post no.13 is a reasoned alternative; and it has balls:-
"If the Country can afford to build a whole new carriageway, why can't it afford to build a whole new railway? Never mind this route and that route and the round-the-houses route - just build a nice new railway, as if it were a nice new carriageway, and then put rails on it. Same philosophy, different hardware. Voila! Problem solved".