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What is the biggest class of locomotive in the UK that did not have a single member survive into preservation?

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Magdalia

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It was indeed common - some Class 31s ran around with headcode panel at one end only as a result.
The only example of that is 31215, and there the cab wasn't replaced, it just had the headcode panel removed as part of a repair after the roof had been hit by a crane.

D5518 had two cabs without headcodes replaced by two cabs with headcodes.

In those days it was not uncommon for a collision to result in damage to both cabs. Typically, front (obviously) of loco collides and stops suddenly, 60 wagons pile into back cab.
I agree with this. Damage at one end only often indicated a light engine collision.
 
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Cowley

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this old thread may give some idea of where to look for a suitable class 30 diesel

Interesting. One of the earliest threads I started was this one:

I asked a similar question about recreating a class 30 in post #15.
 

D5645

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Given that rare engines do turn up now and again after being sold on or from non-railway use there’s a possibility that a Mirrlees engine exists somewhere.
There was an original Mirrlees JVS12T block at European Diesels in Lincolnshire but unfortunately it was disposed of a while ago.

Recreating a Class 30 was considered for a while but it would have been a major engineering project,.
 

Gloster

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Because surprisingly none made it to Barry Scrapyard. I can think of only a couple of classes that became extinct once there: - with the scrapping of NBL ‘Warship’ diesels D600/601 and NBL Bo-Bo D6122!
I think you mean D6121 ;)

There is a fairly lengthy piece about this in the RCTS’ Diesel Dilemmas (just Google those two words and the link is six/seven lines from the bottom). It doesn’t produce a final verdict, but is worth a read.
 

Harvester

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There is a fairly lengthy piece about this in the RCTS’ Diesel Dilemmas (just Google those two words and the link is six/seven lines from the bottom). It doesn’t produce a final verdict, but is worth a read.
Thanks, fascinating stuff! Not only on D6121/D6122, but a host of other numbering ‘Dilemmas’ too.
 

lakeland844

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I would have thought that the biggest class of locomotive that were all scrapped without any being preserved, would have been steam rather than diesel? Probably one of the freight locomotive classes, something like an 0-6-0 or 0-8-0? Not sure it would be any of the pre grouping classes. The LNER J39 could be a contender. 289 locos built and none preserved.

LNER G 5 ?
 

Harvester

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LNER G 5 ?
Regarding North Eastern small tank engines, none of the large batch of NER built J72 0-6-0s survived, although one of the smaller batch of BR built locos has. Extraordinarily the last built J72 69028, entered traffic 53 years after the first of the class did in 1898 (NER 462/later BR 68670)!
 

Bevan Price

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LNWR DX class. 943 built according to the book of wiki.
Pat
The Johnson Midland Railway 0-6-0s almost matched that with 935 locos, but had a more complicated history. Some had 63 inch driving wheels, other had 59 inch driving wheels. Some were rebuilt, sometimes more than once, others were built to resemble the "rebuilds", so there was eventually a mixture of 2F and 3F power classes. Sadly, none survive, although a few of Fowler's larger 4F 0-6-0s have survived.
 

Strathclyder

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Regarding North Eastern small tank engines, none of the large batch of NER built J72 0-6-0s survived, although one of the smaller batch of BR built locos has. Extraordinarily the last built J72 69028, entered traffic 53 years after the first of the class did in 1898 (NER 462/later BR 68670)!
A rare, perhaps unique, case of a steam loco class being built in the pre-grouping, post-grouping/Big Four and post-nationalization eras virtually unchanged: 75 by the NER, 10 by the LNER and 28 by BR.
 

d9009alycidon

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There were 263 members of Class 30. Reconstructing one would be relatively straightforward (compared to a 23 or a D16/1....) if a Mirrlees JVS12T engine could be found that still works.


I found a reference in an old book to a plan to recosntruct a Class 21 from, of all things, a Class 27 (D5353 to be specific). Seems a bit ambitious - apart from the wheel arrangement, they seem to have had very little in common. (Even the wheels themselves were different, NBL having used spoked wheels until the end) (EDIT) They both had GEC electrical equipment, but not the same model.

Anyone know any more about this idea?
Well there is the class 22 NBL diesel engine at Bo'ness!

 

Bornin1980s

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Possibly the Southern Railway 2-HAL? 100 units, 200 vehicles, with no survivors.
Deservedly so, toilet in just one carriage, but no gangway, what were they thinking? Still, given how few EMU vehicles have been preserved, surely a more numerous class has been lost? That said, the classification of southern electric units was pretty fluid.
 

norbitonflyer

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Deservedly so, toilet in just one carriage, but no gangway, what were they thinking? Still, given how few EMU vehicles have been preserved, surely a more numerous class has been lost? That said, the classification of southern electric units was pretty fluid.
The SR classes that reached 100 members:
4SUB
2BIL
2HAL
4COR/RES/BUF (exactly 100 if taken together)
4EPB
2EPB (if you add the SR and BR types together)
2HAP
4CEP
4CIG
4VEP
 

Merle Haggard

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Deservedly so, toilet in just one carriage, but no gangway, what were they thinking? Still, given how few EMU vehicles have been preserved, surely a more numerous class has been lost? That said, the classification of southern electric units was pretty fluid.

That's why they were called HALs! There were NOLs (and also, breaking the pattern for some reason :D BILs)
 

JKF

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What would be the most common unit not to have any survivors?
For diesels, I guess it might be the Class 120 Swindon inter-city units, 49 sets built, none survived. I think asbestos meant it was too expensive to save one, a shame as they were quite distinctive looking.
 

D365

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The 365s? Two DMSOs from different units and one TSO were saved, so theoretically a 3-car Frankenunit would be possible, but they're all on static display.
Have the surviving vehicles been marshalled into a "Frankenunit"?

Unfortunately I suspect that it might have been an intentional decision to scrap all of the pantograph cars, such that the unit will never run again.
 

Harvester

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A number of steam classes only have survivors in preservation because the locos lingered at Barry for years. If Woodhams had followed the scrapping practice of other yards there would be no BR Standard 4MT 2-6-0s, S&D 7Fs, Maunsell 2-6-0s and Bulleid rebuilt light Pacifics in preservation!
 

Merle Haggard

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A number of steam classes only have survivors in preservation because the locos lingered at Barry for years. If Woodhams had followed the scrapping practice of other yards there would be no BR Standard 4MT 2-6-0s, S&D 7Fs, Maunsell 2-6-0s and Bulleid rebuilt light Pacifics in preservation!
There was at least one attempt to buy a loco for preservation from another scrapper. There was a fund for Midland 3F 0-6-0T 47202 which B.R. sold for scrap just before enough money was raised; the scrapper was contacted and amenable to re-sale but the B.R. sales contract had included a 'not for resale' clause and they (B.R.) insisted it was adhered to.
It wasn't only Woodhams that were slow in cutting up; I visited a scrapyard at Troon in the Summer of 1968 and there were two partly cut up locos (a Class 5 & BR Standard 5 from memory) and a long-withdrawn Jinty, complete. No sign of activity and no fence or security, seemed abandoned. Thiswas a bit like the slightly mysterious places cutting up N.B.L. type 2s around Glasgow; just in a siding, untouched, no fence, no-one around.
 

Mat17

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For diesels, I guess it might be the Class 120 Swindon inter-city units, 49 sets built, none survived. I think asbestos meant it was too expensive to save one, a shame as they were quite distinctive looking.

A sole 120 centre car survives.

There are many DMU/EMU types that are extinct. Not sure which is the largest class though from the top of my head. Certainly none are on the scale of the more common classes that do survive.

Extinctions include:

Met Cam light weights
112
113
123
124
125
304
305
310
 

Harvester

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Apart from the Barry locos, the only other steam loco I remember being recovered from a scrapyard is Black Five 45305, which was saved from scrapping at Drapers yard in Hull by the yard‘s owner. Hundreds of withdrawn steam engines did languish at sheds for a considerable time after withdrawal. The last three (July 67 withdrawals) to leave the Salisbury dump, Bulleid Pacifics 34034, 34102 and 35023 left in convoy to South Wales on 30th March 1968, and engines were still dumped at Kingmoor shed in December 1968 a year after it’s closure!
 

norbitonflyer

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For diesels, I guess it might be the Class 120 Swindon inter-city units, 49 sets built, none survived. I think asbestos meant it was too expensive to save one, a shame as they were quite distinctive looking.
The Inter City units were classes 123 and 126 (and the Transpennine 124s). Class 120 were "Cross Country"
Class 120 - 63 x 3-car (185 cars)
Class 123 - 10 x 4 car (40 cars)
Class 124 - 8 1/2 6-car (51 cars)
Class 126 - 43 x 3 car units (134 cars). I think one or two were preserved.
(Numbers include some spare cars)
 

d9009alycidon

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Class 126 - 43 x 3 car units (134 cars). I think one or two were preserved.
(Numbers include some spare cars)
Four class 126 vehicles (51017, 51043, 59404 from the Ayrshire build & Buffet Car 79443 from the Edinburgh to Glasgow sets) survive in preservation, owned by the Scottish Railway Preservation Society and based at the Bo'ness & Kinneil Railway. The three Ayrshire vehicles have been completely overhauled and are operational, the buffet car is currently undergoing restoration.
 

Lucan

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Wasn't Tornado built because there were no survivors of the original Gresley A1 class? I don't know if a replica counts.
 

1Q18

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Wasn't Tornado built because there were no survivors of the original Gresley A1 class? I don't know if a replica counts.
‘Tornado’ is a new-build Peppercorn A1, which were a later and distinct class from the Gresley A1s. There is only one survivor from the Gresley A1 class, ‘Flying Scotsman’, although it is in it’s later condition rebuilt as a class A3.
 

Harvester

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Wasn't Tornado built because there were no survivors of the original Gresley A1 class? I don't know if a replica counts.
I think you mean Peppercorn A1, as ‘Flying Scotsman’ is the sole survivor of the Gresley A1s! But yes, the last surviving Peppercorn A1 (60145 Saint Mungo) remained at York for some months after withdrawal in June 1966, and if I remember correctly the guy who later bought Bittern and Blue Peter tried unsuccessfully to buy it. The loco was eventually sold to Drapers of Hull and scrapped, and a replica (60163) was built to represent an extinct class.
 

Merle Haggard

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I think you mean Peppercorn A1, as ‘Flying Scotsman’ is the sole survivor of the Gresley A1s! But yes, the last surviving Peppercorn A1 (60145 Saint Mungo) remained at York for some months after withdrawal in June 1966, and if I remember correctly the guy who later bought Bittern and Blue Peter tried unsuccessfully to buy it. The loco was eventually sold to Drapers of Hull and scrapped, and a replica (60163) was built to represent an extinct class.
I think the cost of building the Peppercorn A1 was less than the cost of the last overhaul of the Gresley one. If 'Saint Mungo' would have required a similar amount of work by now, building a new one was more cost-effective.
But I don't understand how that happens, very counter-intuitive.
 

Harvester

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I think the cost of building the Peppercorn A1 was less than the cost of the last overhaul of the Gresley one. If 'Saint Mungo' would have required a similar amount of work by now, building a new one was more cost-effective.
But I don't understand how that happens, very counter-intuitive.
Actually ‘Saint Mungo’ was in reasonable condition when withdrawn. The engine was outshopped from Darlington Works after a General Repair in February 1964, and then spent around three months in store until that summer. It did not accumulate high milage over the next couple of years mainly due to lack of suitable work as diesels took over. On 31st December 1965 it reached 99 mph on the level near Thirsk on a BR special, before being signal checked when the last ton by a LNER Pacific was within grasp. IIRC the reason for it’s withdrawal in June 1966 was because of a cracked inside cylinder!
 
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