What travel restrictions change from the 29th March?

[Watershed]

How do you "enforce" minimising travel? What does it even mean?

"You have used up your weekly travel allowance"

 

[Reliablebeam]

The guard on the 1048 Paddington to Swansea just gave us all the very convoluted message of "You should be staying local or travelling for essential purposes only" with Paddington also full of signage about travelling only for "legally permitted" reasons.

Considering that it's first stop Reading then Swindon and that coaches A/B/C looked to be about 50-60% full with a fair few family groups, I don't think he's preaching to the right crowd!

Granted, travel to Wales is still "essential purposes only" (with the departure board making this distinction) but there was no distinction made on board.

Generally GWR has been one of the better ones to travel with throughout all of this, but I've noticed that if you get an obviously Wales* or far west based guard there can be, how can I put it, a bit of an increase in covid-secure methodology and announcements. If I had one criticism of GWR they seemed to cut services in lockdown 3 and over the last two weeks a bit too far in relation to number of people travelling / needing to get to work.

The Tube is playing quite a large number of 'minimise your journeys' announcements, although the Thames Clipper or Uber boat (or whatever it calls itself now) has now restarted. They will serve you coffee from the onboard galley - but, er, you're not allowed to drink in on-board.... Hmm....

*I am Welsh in case this is taken the wrong way!

 

[Bertie the bus]

How do you "enforce" minimising travel? What does it even mean?

It is like much of the guidance over the last year. It isn’t meant to mean anything. It is supposed to be so vague that people decide not to travel at all because they’re not sure whether they are allowed or not but also vague enough that opponents can’t attack the government for imposing too restrictive measures.

 

[Bikeman78]

How do you "enforce" minimising travel? What does it even mean?

I won't be minimising it over the next four days. Planning to do classes 313/315/317/321.

 

[JakeMurphy]

Right so I’ve just been kicked off the station at Shrewsbury as apparently it’s essential travel only. Some people who work on the railways don’t deserve to be on them.

 

[LowLevel]

Right so I’ve just been kicked off the station at Shrewsbury as apparently it’s essential travel only. Some people who work on the railways don’t deserve to be on them.

Were you intent on travelling or trainspotting out of interest?

 

[JakeMurphy]

Were you intent on travelling or trainspotting out of interest?

Trainspotting and the first thing I do at any station i go to is to ask for permission

 

[yorksrob]

Right so I’ve just been kicked off the station at Shrewsbury as apparently it’s essential travel only. Some people who work on the railways don’t deserve to be on them.

Submit a formal complaint.

It's not "essential travel only".

 

[LowLevel]

Trainspotting and the first thing I do at any station i go to is to ask for permission

Unfortunately they are fully within their rights to refuse access then, I'm afraid, although using essential travel is a bit of a straw man. Some stations routinely ask trainspotters to leave in normal times, others are more welcoming - I know as an employee I tend to prefer the latter provided the spotters are well behaved which most are.

 

[86247]

This is the exact thing I'm worried about I've still not been anywhere due to work but if railway employees are still saying this wibble about essential travel only they need to be informed that its not.

 

[JakeMurphy]

Unfortunately they are fully within their rights to refuse access then, I'm afraid, although using essential travel is a bit of a straw man. Some stations routinely ask trainspotters to leave in normal times, others are more welcoming - I know as an employee I tend to prefer the latter provided the spotters are well behaved which most are.

I don’t understand though I thought you could use the trains for any reason and trainspot most stations and staff I’ve been to are happy to have enthusiasts back

and earlier in the month I spotted at Shrewsbury with no issues

 

[Jamesrob637]

Right so I’ve just been kicked off the station at Shrewsbury as apparently it’s essential travel only. Some people who work on the railways don’t deserve to be on them.

Make a complaint. It's not pre-29th March anymore!

 

[LowLevel]

I don’t understand though I thought you could use the trains for any reason and trainspot most stations and staff I’ve been to are happy to have enthusiasts back

You can use the trains but there is never any right to be allowed to remain on the premises for the purposes of trainspotting or photography - if a member of staff asks you to leave they're within their rights in law. Most companies are friendly enough to enthusiasts, unfortunately you appear to have caught someone on a bad day.

Take it up with Transport for Wales who manage the station, I'm not sure what they will say though.

 

[JakeMurphy]

You can use the trains but there is never any right to be allowed to remain on the premises for the purposes of trainspotting or photography - if a member of staff asks you to leave they're within their rights in law. Most companies are friendly enough to enthusiasts, unfortunately you appear to have caught someone on a bad day.

Take it up with Transport for Wales who manage the station, I'm not sure what they will say though.

Yeah I’ll put a word in with them because I don’t understand I appreciate fully what your saying though

Make a complaint. It's not pre-29th March anymore!

The mans a month behind!!!!!

 

[Watershed]

Yeah I’ll put a word in with them because I don’t understand I appreciate fully what your saying though


The mans a month behind!!!!!

There are no legal restrictions on travel or being out and about. But, as has always been the case (including pre-Covid), there is no automatic right to do trainspotting. Station staff are entitled to tell you to leave if you're not catching a train.

The justification given in this case was entirely spurious, but the staff were still entitled to tell you to leave.

 

[JakeMurphy]

There are no legal restrictions on travel or being out and about. But, as has always been the case (including pre-Covid), there is no automatic right to do trainspotting. Station staff are entitled to tell you to leave if you're not catching a train.

The justification given in this case was entirely spurious, but the staff were still entitled to tell you to leave.

I understand completely but it’s strange I know the trains are busy on a Saturday but I can easily social distance and I’ve got a mask on and hand gel with me so where’s the issue?

 

[221129]

where’s the issue?

They don't want you there. And you have no right to be there if you're not travelling. You can be denied access for spotting, and no reason has to be given at all.

 

[JakeMurphy]

They don't want you there. And you have no right to be there if you're not travelling. You can be denied access for spotting, and no reason has to be given at all.

I was travelling though as I came from Chester

 

[bengley]

They can't ask you to leave the station for trainspotting...

They can issue a legitimate safety instruction, but they can't just make it up. If you are following the rules and remaining behind the yellow line etc, you can't just be asked to leave willy nilly.

 

[JakeMurphy]

They can't ask you to leave the station for trainspotting...

They can issue a legitimate safety instruction, but they can't just make it up. If you are following the rules and remaining behind the yellow line etc, you can't just be asked to leave willy nilly.

Every station I go to I always follow the rules

This is the exact thing I'm worried about I've still not been anywhere due to work but if railway employees are still saying this wibble about essential travel only they need to be informed that its not.

Personally in my eyes there’s no excuse for being behind

 

[D6130]

I don’t understand though I thought you could use the trains for any reason and trainspot most stations and staff I’ve been to are happy to have enthusiasts back

and earlier in the month I spotted at Shrewsbury with no issues

As a matter of interest, was it actually a member of station staff who asked you to leave, or a travelling RPI (Revenue Protection Inspector)? the reason I ask is because I spent an hour and a half photographing on Shrewsbury station, between trains, about four weeks ago and the station staff completely ignored me. However, there was a Cardiff-based RPI wandering around on the island platform counting the number of passengers joining and alighting from each train and randomly asking people on the platform to see their tickets. (The downstairs barrier line was open). When I showed him my retired staff pass - on which I was using the second day - he discreetly asked me to fill in another date. I, equally discreetly, reminded him that boxes are valid for the date written plus the following day - whereupon he wandered off without saying anything. About ten minutes later, having obviously made a phone call to confirm what I had said to him, he returned and started chatting with me amiably about all sorts of things - including trains, photography and family history - seemingly forgetting about counting passengers and checking tickets. It was all I could do to drag myself away when my train for Hereford arrived. Admittedly, I did have a valid travel 'ticket', but a couple and their young son came onto the platform specially to video 37 421 passing through en route from Coleham to Derby RTC and our RPI friend was very welcoming and accommodating to them too.

 

[JakeMurphy]

As a matter of interest, was it actually a member of station staff who asked you to leave, or a travelling RPI (Revenue Protection Inspector)? the reason I ask is because I spent an hour and a half photographing on Shrewsbury station, between trains, about four weeks ago and the station staff completely ignored me. However, there was a Cardiff-based RPI wandering around on the island platform counting the number of passengers joining and alighting from each train and randomly asking people on the platform to see their tickets. (The downstairs barrier line was open). When I showed him my retired staff pass - on which I was using the second day - he discreetly asked me to fill in another date. I, equally discreetly, reminded him that boxes are valid for the date written plus the following day - whereupon he wandered off without saying anything. About ten minutes later, having obviously made a phone call to confirm what I had said to him, he returned and started chatting with me amiably about all sorts of things - including trains, photography and family history - seemingly forgetting about counting passengers and checking tickets. It was all I could do to drag myself away when my train for Hereford arrived. Admittedly, I did have a valid travel 'ticket', but a couple and their young son came onto the platform specially to video 37 421 passing through en route from Coleham to Derby RTC and our RPI friend was very welcoming and accommodating to them too.

Station staff it was mate

 

[island]

They can't ask you to leave the station for trainspotting...

They can issue a legitimate safety instruction, but they can't just make it up. If you are following the rules and remaining behind the yellow line etc, you can't just be asked to leave willy nilly.

Yes they can.

Stations are private property and the implied license of a member of the public to be on the property may be revoked for good reason bad reason or no reason whatsoever. (If a person is a ticketed passenger then they have a contractual license to be on the property and it is a little more difficult. But still possible.)

Additionally railway byelaw 13 (2) would be relevant.

The "essential travel only" thing is a bit of a red-herring.

 

[JakeMurphy]

Submit a formal complaint.

It's not "essential travel only".

I’ve sent one

Yes they can.

Stations are private property and the implied license of a member of the public to be on the property may be revoked for good reason bad reason or no reason whatsoever. (If a person is a ticketed passenger then they have a contractual license to be on the property and it is a little more difficult. But still possible.)

Additionally railway byelaw 13 (2) would be relevant.

The "essential travel only" thing is a bit of a red-herring.

I was ticketed as I came from Chester

 

[bengley]

Yes they can.

Stations are private property and the implied license of a member of the public to be on the property may be revoked for good reason bad reason or no reason whatsoever. (If a person is a ticketed passenger then they have a contractual license to be on the property and it is a little more difficult. But still possible.)

Additionally railway byelaw 13 (2) would be relevant.

The "essential travel only" thing is a bit of a red-herring.

You are right, however the power to make that decision is not given to ordinary station staff by TOCs and I presume it was given by such a member of staff who just doesn't like spotters

 

[LowLevel]

You are right, however the power to make that decision is not given to ordinary station staff by TOCs and I presume it was given by such a member of staff who just doesn't like spotters

Of course it is - the station supervisor/team leader/manager or other person in charge of the premises has that right.

As a dispatcher I wouldn't have asked someone to leave, I'd have had the supervisor out to do it.

 

[bengley]

Of course it is - the station supervisor/team leader/manager or other person in charge of the premises has that right.

As a dispatcher I wouldn't have asked someone to leave, I'd have had the supervisor out to do it.

They'd have to justify it if a complaint was made, which in this case, it sounds like they wouldn't be able to.

 

[221129]

They'd have to justify it if a complaint was made, which in this case, it sounds like they wouldn't be able to.

It would be easily justified.

 

[bengley]

It would be easily justified.

No, it wouldn't

 

[greyman42]

As a matter of interest, was it actually a member of station staff who asked you to leave, or a travelling RPI (Revenue Protection Inspector)? the reason I ask is because I spent an hour and a half photographing on Shrewsbury station, between trains, about four weeks ago and the station staff completely ignored me. However, there was a Cardiff-based RPI wandering around on the island platform counting the number of passengers joining and alighting from each train and randomly asking people on the platform to see their tickets. (The downstairs barrier line was open). When I showed him my retired staff pass - on which I was using the second day - he discreetly asked me to fill in another date. I, equally discreetly, reminded him that boxes are valid for the date written plus the following day - whereupon he wandered off without saying anything. About ten minutes later, having obviously made a phone call to confirm what I had said to him, he returned and started chatting with me amiably about all sorts of things - including trains, photography and family history - seemingly forgetting about counting passengers and checking tickets. It was all I could do to drag myself away when my train for Hereford arrived. Admittedly, I did have a valid travel 'ticket', but a couple and their young son came onto the platform specially to video 37 421 passing through en route from Coleham to Derby RTC and our RPI friend was very welcoming and accommodating to them too.

It really is poor that a RPI does not know something as basic that a staff travel box is valid for the day after the written date.