What was the fastest London - Edinburgh run on the ECML

[YourMum666]

The 05:40 ECML (Flying Scotsman Service) is timed for 4hrs on Real Time Trains, Calling at only Newcastle along the way. This made me think to myself and come and ask, what is the fastest EC run you can get, and what was the fastest ECML run in general, has it been done in 3hr45 at any point?

 

[GS250]

Wasn't the 4 hour run obtainable with a 91 set? Granted very limited stop but surely an Azuma could knock 5-10 minutes off of that with it's far superior acceleration away from speed restrictions etc?

 

[YourMum666]

Wasn't the 4 hour run obtainable with a 91 set? Granted very limited stop but surely an Azuma could knock 5-10 minutes off of that with it's far superior acceleration away from speed restrictions etc?

Yes, but most RTT pathings show about 3hr55-4hrs runtimes

 

[sprinterguy]

3 hours 59 minutes is the fastest that timetabled London - Edinburgh ECML services have been scheduled, with Newcastle and York stops en route, made possible by the introduction of class 91 and mark 4 sets.

Of course the record is 3 hours 29 minutes, achieved by 91012 and a shortened mark 4 rake on a non-stop press run in September 1991.

 

[snowball]

What was the fastest regular timetabled London-Edinburgh run by HSTs before electrification?

I remember that in the late days of the Deltics, a few years before the introduction of HSTs, it was 5hr 30 mins.

 

[hexagon789]

What was the fastest regular timetabled London-Edinburgh run by HSTs before electrification?

4h23 in 1988 or 89 IIRC

I remember that in the late days of the Deltics, a few years before the introduction of HSTs, it was 5hr 30 mins.

It was 5h30 after the Peterborough improvements in 1971-72.

It then drifted towards 5h40 (but remainded 5h3x) going up to 1977.

In 1977 with the line improvements for HSTs being implemented, the Flying Scotsman was reduced to ~5h27/5h28 with Deltics in their last year on the service.

The HSTs came in and reduced it to (IIRC) 4h47/4h50 in May 1978, then further 4h37/4h40 in May 1979.

4h35 in 1982, following linespeed improvements in Scotland

4h30 in 1985, following the Selby diversion

It drifted up a few mins after this before falling to an all-time best of 4h23 by 1988/9.

 

[YourMum666]

3 hours 59 minutes is the fastest that timetabled London - Edinburgh ECML services have been scheduled, with Newcastle and York stops en route, made possible by the introduction of class 91 and mark 4 sets.

Of course the record is 3 hours 29 minutes, achieved by 91012 and a shortened mark 4 rake on a non-stop press run in September 1991.

I wonder how a non stop IET would compare to a 91, with better acceleration

 

[Harvester]

What was the fastest regular timetabled London-Edinburgh run by HSTs before electrification?

I remember that in the late days of the Deltics, a few years before the introduction of HSTs, it was 5hr 30 mins.

This beats the fastest steam hauled non-stop Elizabethan timings (summers 1954-56) by exactly one hour. The schedule was eased back to 6hrs 35 mins during the last five summers of A4 haulage (1957-61).

 

[3RDGEN]

I wonder how a non stop IET would compare to a 91, with better acceleration

3 hours 59 minutes is the fastest that timetabled London - Edinburgh ECML services have been scheduled, with Newcastle and York stops en route, made possible by the introduction of class 91 and mark 4 sets.

Of course the record is 3 hours 29 minutes, achieved by 91012 and a shortened mark 4 rake on a non-stop press run in September 1991.

Wasn't the 3hr 59 min Newcastle only missing York? It didn't run for too long as I remember it, bit like todays 4hr run it was a headline vanity timing.

The non stop record was 91 + 6 so not sure if IET would accelerate better, maybe as you have more powered axles. The record run ran to higher line speeds for much of the route.

 

[TheBigD]

Wasn't the 3hr 59 min Newcastle only missing York? It didn't run for too long as I remember it, bit like todays 4hr run it was a headline vanity timing.

The non stop record was 91 + 6 so not sure if IET would accelerate better, maybe as you have more powered axles. The record run ran to higher line speeds for much of the route.

The 3hr59 was for 4 trains ,the 0600/1500 ex Edinburgh, and 0800/1500 ex Kings Cross.
Stopping pattern was York and Newcastle only both ways.
Subsequent timetables saw the 0800 ex EDB/1500 ex Edinburgh gain extra stops at first, then subsequently the other 2 services gained extra stops as well.

 

[hexagon789]

Wasn't the 3hr 59 min Newcastle only missing York? It didn't run for too long as I remember it, bit like todays 4hr run it was a headline vanity timing.

Newcastle and York, both ways.

In the first timetable these timings applied to, there were 6 of these fast services, though one northbound service called Darlington instead of York and took slightly over 4 hours rather than just under.

The 3h59 timing wasn't continual, indeed it lasted initially for only two timetable periods but it was in force for a few years at a time through the 1990s. It disappeared in the early 2000s but GNER briefly brought it back in 2003 or 2004 before it was eased to 4hrs 02 and then disappeared again until the 2011 'Eureka' 4-hour timing.

 

[TheBigD]

Newcastle and York, both ways.

In the first timetable these timings applied to, there were 6 of these fast services, though one northbound service called Darlington instead of York and took slightly over 4 hours rather than just under.

The 3h59 timing wasn't continual, indeed it lasted initially for only two timetable periods but it was in force for a few years at a time through the 1990s. It disappeared in the early 2000s but GNER briefly brought it back in 2003 or 2004 before it was eased to 4hrs 02 and then disappeared again until the 2011 'Eureka' 4-hour timing.

The morning one that missed York but stopped at Darlington was a Newcastle starter, either the 0630 or 0700 ex Newcastle if my memory is correct, with a York starter catering for the York passengers. Similarly the 1700 down was followed by a 1703 Newcastle which called at York and elsewhere.

 

[hexagon789]

The morning one that missed York but stopped at Darlington was a Newcastle starter, either the 0630 or 0700 ex Newcastle if my memory is correct, with a York starter catering for the York passengers. Similarly the 1700 down was followed by a 1703 Newcastle which called at York and elsewhere.

The timetable I was thinking of:

Northbound:

0800 The Scottish Pullman (York & Newcastle) 3h59 - to Glasgow, 5h10

1000 Flying Scotsman (Peterborough, York & Newcastle) 4h08 - to Glasgow 5h05

1400 The Scottish Pullman (York & Newcastle) 3h59 - to Glasgow, 4h57

1700 The Scottish Pullman (Darlington & Newcastle) 4h08


Southbound:

0630 The Scottish Pullman (Newcastle & York) 3h59

1500 The Scottish Pullman (Newcastle & York) 3h59 - from Glasgow, 4h59

 

[YourMum666]

The timetable I was thinking of:

Northbound:

0800 The Scottish Pullman (York & Newcastle) 3h59 - to Glasgow, 5h10

1000 Flying Scotsman (Peterborough, York & Newcastle) 4h08 - to Glasgow 5h05

1400 The Scottish Pullman (York & Newcastle) 3h59 - to Glasgow, 4h57

1700 The Scottish Pullman (Darlington & Newcastle) 4h08


Southbound:

0630 The Scottish Pullman (Newcastle & York) 3h59

1500 The Scottish Pullman (Newcastle & York) 3h59 - from Glasgow, 4h59

3:59 calling at York and Newcastle? Wow, I saw Geoff Marshall’s Azuma flying Scotsman video, they skipped York and did it in 3:59