What would you like to see in the next Great Western Franchise?

[absolutelymilk]

Not all travellers from Reading to London are 'commuters', especially not the ones travelling outside the peaks!

Yes, to clarify I meant short distance travellers rather than commuters, and specifically during the peaks.

 

[BantamMenace]

Wouldn't Oxford to Banbury be better served by Chiltern exclusively?

Be good to see the Stratford to Leamington shuttle made clockface hourly and extended all stops to Oxford making use of the new bays there.
Alternatively a new Birmingham to Leamington hourly shuttle introduced and then this extended to Oxford.

 

[greaterwest]

Would it be possible for GWR to have tickets which are not valid on high-speed services, whether by establishing a sub-brand or by marking the trains as such on the boards? Does this happen elsewhere?

SouthEastern do this with their High Speed services, I don't see why GWR couldn't do this, perhaps cheaper tickets/season tickets for local Reading - Paddington travel, especially with the new 8 coach Electrostars that are going to be making their way to Reading imminently.

 

[jimm]

I'd have thought the Reading upgrade now gives scope for some non-stopping peak services from Taunton/Bath/Bristol Parkway and maybe Oxford in due course.

No chance of the capacity for more Oxford-Banbury trains, and to bite the bullet with Cotswold Line redoubling Wolvercot-Charlbury would mean some huge undertaking to increase capacity at Hanborough - with its potential to be a bigge railhead. The current platform and parking even with the extension is very busy; to the south one of these Garden Villages is coming (on land just outside the Oxford Green Belt and the Cotswolds AONB) and you would probably need additional car parking there - which would not be popular with locals. (No chance of doing that at Charlbury)

But the obvious thing would be some non-stop Reading-London shuttles at peak.

As noted above a couple of the Bristol services each hour will be non-stop through Reading - but they will, I believe, be worked by single five-car IETs, so you can see the logic there.

Hanborough residents may not like the idea of more car parking but they like the idea of people parking all over the verges near the station even less - which was what happened until the car park was extended.

As I have pointed out in the Class 800 thread, there will be a stream of Class 1 387 services starting at Didcot and heading to Paddington in the morning peaks from January 2, which will no doubt be expected to take up plenty of traffic from Reading en route.

I'd like to see a better service on what are currently the Oxford stoppers between Reading and Didcot. I'm aware of the constraints on the Didcot-Oxford stretch and the lack of wires and am therefore sufficiently realistic to expect there can't be any more local services to Oxford for the time being. However, running a Didcot-Reading shuttle, especially off-peak to fill in what are currently very large gaps in the late evening would be very helpful. It would also support Didcot Town's drive towards expansion and becoming a destination in its own right.

I'd suggest you take a look on realtimetrains for services in the area as of January 2 onwards. There are big changes as a result of the overhead wires to Didcot becoming available for passenger services, so you might see some of what you want happening that soon. There should be same-platform or cross-platform changes between the 387s and Turbos to/from Oxford at Didcot.

There has been some discussion on the Class 800 thread as well of the IETs avoiding Reading, or making pickup/drop-off only stops, to avoid commuters filling up long-distance trains.

Would it be possible for GWR to have tickets which are not valid on high-speed services, whether by establishing a sub-brand or by marking the trains as such on the boards? Does this happen elsewhere?

Why are so many people obsessed by the idea of trying to drive Reading commuters off long-distance trains?

Due to the well-known (at least I thought they were) limitations of GWR's rolling stock fleet, there haven't been alternative services available to them up until now. That changes as of January, with the 387 services I mention above specifically targeted at giving outer Thames Valley commuters - the Reading ones included - fresh options and a far better chance of getting a seat, with a minimal journey time penalty compared with HSTs or IETs. The full new timetable structure then comes in at the end of next year, with Crossrail following in 2019. Please can people spare us all this segregation talk until all those changes get the chance to bed in and have an effect on how people travel.

Wouldn't Oxford to Banbury be better served by Chiltern exclusively?

Be good to see the Stratford to Leamington shuttle made clockface hourly and extended all stops to Oxford making use of the new bays there.
Alternatively a new Birmingham to Leamington hourly shuttle introduced and then this extended to Oxford.

Is the Oxford-Banbury line really so much in need of being 'fixed' as some people seem to think?

It already has a half-hourly interval XC service all day - the only problem with that being it is operated by laughably low-capacity Voyagers that either need to be replaced by longer trains or doubled up to offer the extra seats that are needed between Manchester, the West Midlands, the Thames Valley and the South Coast.

There is no need whatever for an hourly stopping service on top of the XC trains, especially not one calling at the intermediate stations every hour. Do you know anything about those villages? The traffic just isn't there to justify hourly trains all day - which is why they get the level of service they do at present.

I can't see Chiltern having much if any interest in running into Oxford from the north - they prefer to focus on flows to and from London with lots of volume - ie Oxfordshire and the West Midlands conurbation. They aren't really interested in serving Stratford-upon Avon and would probably be delighted if a new GW franchise included direct London-Stratford trains, giving Chiltern the perfect excuse to ask to be allowed to drop their remnant of a through service.

 

[nickswift99]

There has been some discussion on the Class 800 thread as well of the IETs avoiding Reading, or making pickup/drop-off only stops, to avoid commuters filling up long-distance trains.

Would it be possible for GWR to have tickets which are not valid on high-speed services, whether by establishing a sub-brand or by marking the trains as such on the boards? Does this happen elsewhere?

It already does that with its peak ticket restrictions. Whether they could offer a lower cost season ticket is another question.

 

[BanburyBlue]

You can suggest it all you like - but how do you justify it?

How many passengers travelling between Reading, Oxford and the West Midlands or further north are going to want to muck around changing trains at Banbury (plus the added delights of pitstops at Tackley, Hayford and Kings Sutton at various times of the day) and taking much longer over the journey, when there is already a half-hourly direct service along this corridor taking them where they want to go? An XC service which everyone and his dog agrees badly needs longer trains in order to meet demand. Something that could be done without eating up lots of capacity on a busy corridor to no great purpose.

Lengthening XC services is an altogether more sensible way of using resources than running a near-empty 320-seat IET on a stopping service to Banbury. If timetable planners can devise a cunning plan to squeeze more trains on to the Cotswold Line's eastern end, that's where any extensions of Oxford terminators will be headed. Just getting to Hanborough and Charlbury and back again would generate more fare revenue than going to Banbury ever would.

In many years of observing FGW and GWR Banbury services arriving at and leaving Oxford, and occasional journeys on these services between Oxford and Banbury, I have never seen anything remotely resembling a full load on a two-car, never mind three-car, Turbo outside the key peak-time trains or when a preceding XC service has been cancelled - almost as soon as the XC service frequency was doubled, the GW service was cut back drastically to match local demand, which is what it is there to meet. No one seems at all interested in taking advantage of any connectional opportunities that might exist. No wonder when you would be effectively adding about 30 minutes to the journey time.

Northbound, the first Birmingham service after the GWR stoppers arrive at Banbury is the following XC service from Reading and Oxford. Southbound there are one or two slick changes from Moor Street services, but at other times the best connection is out of an XC service from New Street - and any paths that GWR could use are dictated by Chiltern and XC's slots and those for freight, so any extra trains would have to run at much the same times of each hour, with the same connectional issues.

The only additional GW services to Banbury I can see happening are, as I have said elsewhere previously, a limited service linking London, Oxford and Stratford-upon-Avon targeted at the tourist market. And that will depend entirely on whether there is still an appetite within GWR or rival bidders to include the idea in a franchise consultation response, as happened last time round.

Personally I would like to see some of the Paddington - Oxford's extended to Banbury. I wouldn't necessarily expect them to call at King's Sutton, Heyford and Tackley though. The issue with CrossCountry is that the calling points are Oxford and Reading (and then to the South Coast). There are lot of significant towns between Oxford and London through the Thames Valley that are hard to get to. It would also give an alternative London destination that Marylebone. I know Marylebone is faster, but not everyone travels on a service just because it's quicker (in reason). A good example is Chiltern to Birmingham. A lot of people use Chiltern rather than West Coast because it's cheaper and less overcrowded.

 

[bnm]

As I have pointed out in the Class 800 thread, there will be a stream of Class 1 387 services starting at Didcot and heading to Paddington in the morning peaks from January 2, which will no doubt be expected to take up plenty of traffic from Reading en route.

They might be expected to, but will they actually? Commuters are creatures of habit and tend to pick the fastest service to get them to and from work. The 387 peak services are indeed an improvement over the Turbos they replace but are still 10-13 minutes slower than Reading<->Paddington HST/IET services. That's 20-25 minutes each day. If I were commuting from Reading that would be important to me. An extra 10 minutes in bed and home to the kiddlywinks 10 minutes earlier.

 

[jimm]

Personally I would like to see some of the Paddington - Oxford's extended to Banbury. I wouldn't necessarily expect them to call at King's Sutton, Heyford and Tackley though. The issue with CrossCountry is that the calling points are Oxford and Reading (and then to the South Coast). There are lot of significant towns between Oxford and London through the Thames Valley that are hard to get to. It would also give an alternative London destination that Marylebone. I know Marylebone is faster, but not everyone travels on a service just because it's quicker (in reason). A good example is Chiltern to Birmingham. A lot of people use Chiltern rather than West Coast because it's cheaper and less overcrowded.

The issue with a GWR fast between Oxford and Paddington is no different from XC - they don't call at any of those significant towns between Oxford and London most of the day - some peak calls at Didcot and in the off-peak at Slough aside (random calls at Maidenhead finish this Christmas, I believe) so you would still be talking change at Oxford or Reading. There may be a few hardy souls who don't mind stopping anywhere and everywhere on a semi-fast but a few is all there are - and that option has always been there for Banbury passengers at certain times of the day anyway.

Bringing us back to the need to get more seats on those XC services which are already doing the job of linking Banbury into the Thames Valley.

Much of the traffic north of Banbury on Chiltern services is to and from the likes of Leamington, Warwick and Solihull, not the city of Birmingham, ie it is people's direct link to London, not something they choose for other reasons.

If GWR thought it was worth their while to send fasts to Banbury, there is nothing stopping them doing so, subject to paths being available. They could get close to the typical journey time of all bar the fastest Chiltern services - but they have chosen not to bother.

What people would like and what has a business case are different things.

 

[Rich McLean]

WoE
1tph Paddington to Plymouth with 8tpd continuing to Penzance. (Non stop Reading to Taunton)
1tph Paddington to Westbury/Exeter/Paignton (with B&H calls)
1tph Cardiff - Taunton, with 1tp2hr extending to Plymouth (calling at Ivybridge) and 5tpd through to Penzance. (Semi fast Plymouth to Penzance)
1tph Plymouth to Penzance (All stops)
2tph Exmouth - Paignton (All stops)
1tph Exeter Central - Barny

Cornish branches no change.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Longer units with SDO that can operate on the Cardiff to Pompey via Southampton and Bristol to Weymouth services. OK, bit of a probem at a few stations en route because of the platform lengths but with SDO it would be a relief than being packed in a three car 158.

 

[jimm]

They might be expected to, but will they actually? Commuters are creatures of habit and tend to pick the fastest service to get them to and from work. The 387 peak services are indeed an improvement over the Turbos they replace but are still 10-13 minutes slower than Reading<->Paddington HST/IET services. That's 20-25 minutes each day. If I were commuting from Reading that would be important to me. An extra 10 minutes in bed and home to the kiddlywinks 10 minutes earlier.

When it comes to the Reading passengers, the fast 387 services will effectively be a new option that hasn't existed up until now. Of the two current morning peak HSTs that start at Didcot, one runs non-stop through Reading from Tilehurst straight to Twyford.

If we take the Reading commuters at their word - that all they want is a seat and on trains that are faster than a Turbo semi-fast - then these new 387 duties, with 450 or 670-odd seats in 8 or 12-car formations, should be an attractive option to them.

Are you seriously suggesting that given the chance to get a seat on the 0749 (with only some Didcot passengers already on board) running non-stop to Paddington in 31 minutes that they will still instead opt to stand on the 0748 (ex-Bristol with calls at Bath, Chippenham and Swindon, ie a very busy train) to save six minutes getting to Paddington?

I'm sure there will be a few headbangers with a desire to appear on a future Channel 5 programme shouting at the staff and into a camera about how terrible it all is who will probably do just that, but so long as these services are marketed properly at Reading, then there is no reason they should not have a positive effect.

 

[bnm]

When it comes to the Reading passengers, the fast 387 services will effectively be a new option that hasn't existed up until now. Of the two current morning peak HSTs that start at Didcot, one runs non-stop through Reading from Tilehurst straight to Twyford.

If we take the Reading commuters at their word - that all they want is a seat and on trains that are faster than a Turbo semi-fast - then these new 387 duties, with 450 or 670-odd seats in 8 or 12-car formations, should be an attractive option to them.

Are you seriously suggesting that given the chance to get a seat on the 0749 (with only some Didcot passengers already on board) running non-stop to Paddington in 31 minutes that they will still instead opt to stand on the 0748 (ex-Bristol with calls at Bath, Chippenham and Swindon, ie a very busy train) to save six minutes getting to Paddington?

I'm sure there will be a few headbangers with a desire to appear on a future Channel 5 programme shouting at the staff and into a camera about how terrible it all is who will probably do just that, but so long as these services are marketed properly at Reading, then there is no reason they should not have a positive effect.

How many other Class 387 services from Reading are due to run nonstop in 31 minutes to Paddington in the morning peak?

I believe commuters tend to chose speed over comfort (even a 6 minute saving) despite always complaining about standing. I believe they will continue to do so.

Marketing may convert some initially, but longer term I see the Reading masses reverting to type and getting themselves to and from London as quickly as possible.

 

[SamYeager]

I believe commuters tend to chose speed over comfort (even a 6 minute saving) despite always complaining about standing. I believe they will continue to do so.

Marketing may convert some initially, but longer term I see the Reading masses reverting to type and getting themselves to and from London as quickly as possible.

If that turns out to be the case then presumably the option of making of making various services drop down only will be looked at again.

 

[cactustwirly]

When it comes to the Reading passengers, the fast 387 services will effectively be a new option that hasn't existed up until now. Of the two current morning peak HSTs that start at Didcot, one runs non-stop through Reading from Tilehurst straight to Twyford.

If we take the Reading commuters at their word - that all they want is a seat and on trains that are faster than a Turbo semi-fast - then these new 387 duties, with 450 or 670-odd seats in 8 or 12-car formations, should be an attractive option to them.

Are you seriously suggesting that given the chance to get a seat on the 0749 (with only some Didcot passengers already on board) running non-stop to Paddington in 31 minutes that they will still instead opt to stand on the 0748 (ex-Bristol with calls at Bath, Chippenham and Swindon, ie a very busy train) to save six minutes getting to Paddington?

I'm sure there will be a few headbangers with a desire to appear on a future Channel 5 programme shouting at the staff and into a camera about how terrible it all is who will probably do just that, but so long as these services are marketed properly at Reading, then there is no reason they should not have a positive effect.

The fast services have existed for a long time, the only difference is that they start from Didcot instead of Oxford, and they are formed of 387s instead of turbos.

 

[MarkyT]

When I did the Reading London commute, at first I sometimes let the first fast train go without me if it seemed exceptionally overcrowded, but soon learned that the next one, unless it was within only a very few minutes might be no better. If I waited for a third it might become later while I stood and before long I'd have added 20+ minutes to my commute and risked being late for work. If there was a largely empty train pulling in only a couple of minutes after the first rammed Intercity then I would almost certainly have got on it, as long as comfort and journey time were comparable. A bold move would be to run all fast peak trains on the mains with the same sectional running time between Reading and Paddington. The 387s are powerful 110MPH units so potentially could get very close to HST/80x timings on such a relatively short non stop segment, and since they are only coming from Didcot initially they will probably not need much in the way of performance padding allowances, unlike the longer distance IETs. Thereby, the psychological objection to a couple of minutes extra journey time on the 'inferior' local service might be eroded.

 

[coppercapped]

How many other Class 387 services from Reading are due to run nonstop in 31 minutes to Paddington in the morning peak?

I believe commuters tend to chose speed over comfort (even a 6 minute saving) despite always complaining about standing. I believe they will continue to do so.

Marketing may convert some initially, but longer term I see the Reading masses reverting to type and getting themselves to and from London as quickly as possible.

Also addressing MarkyT's point in post 105. During the day, that is outside the peak periods, there are (at present) hourly non-stop Turbo operated Reading to Paddington services from the Newbury line as well as one-stop (at Slough) services from Oxford. From observation passengers waiting on the island making up platforms 10 and 11 will also get on these trains and not wait for a following HST.

There is, I think, some psychology at work here. Reading is unique in having such an intensive and fast service to London - and these trains always, at least in normal operation, use Platforms 10 and 11, the Up Main and Up Main Platform Loop. Ergo - any train calling at these platforms is a fast train, even if it makes a call on the way and is operated by 90mile/h stock. And it doesn't matter if it's 6 minutes slower than the train behind - it still gets to Paddington first.

Because the fast service is so frequent many people don't bother with a timetable (I don't think GWR publishes a pocket timetable for only the Paddington - Reading service any more) so passengers arrive on Platforms 10 and 11 in a steady trickle knowing there will be a train in a few minutes. The trickle includes people making connections. If the additional fast Class 387 trains also use Platforms 10 and 11 they will soak up the London passengers who would otherwise board the long distance trains with no trouble. If they are routed through the Relief Line platforms the effect may well be less as people know that these are used by the slower trains and that if there is a delay they will have to go back up to the bridge and then down to 10 or 11.

This is a long winded way of saying that there may have to be some way to persuade people to use the fast 387 services if they arrive at Reading from Didcot on the Relief line. Some form of positive direction at the top of the stairs to 10/11 to point out that the passengers could reach London first (or at least no slower) if they took the train about to arrive in Platform 15.

A possibility to achieve the same end would be to route some or all of these trains via the Festival Line to arrive at Platform 7. This allows people arriving directly from the town and some of the buses as well as the Basingstoke, Newbury and Wokingham lines to reach a London train without using the bridge - a time saving of a few minutes. Leaving for London would mean crossing the Down Main on the flat and then using the Kennet Bridge crossings to regain the Relief lines for the Twyford and Maidenhead stops. This suggestion stands or falls on the availability of Platform 7 (also used for the Down services routed on the Newbury line and reversing XC trains) and the conflicts in crossing the Down Main and Down Relief at a busy time in the morning. But it might be worth considering.

In spite of my concerns I am sure that the additional capacity and reduced journey times made possible by the 387s will have a positive effect on the crowding issues faced on the longer distance services.

 

[swt_passenger]

Longer units with SDO that can operate on the Cardiff to Pompey via Southampton and Bristol to Weymouth services. OK, bit of a probem at a few stations en route because of the platform lengths but with SDO it would be a relief than being packed in a three car 158.

Cardiff - Portsmouth is already down to be operated by a couple of Turbos in multiple isn't it, once the DMU cascades start in earnest? Network Rail are clearing the route (and others) due by May 2018.

 

[jimm]

How many other Class 387 services from Reading are due to run nonstop in 31 minutes to Paddington in the morning peak?

I believe commuters tend to chose speed over comfort (even a 6 minute saving) despite always complaining about standing. I believe they will continue to do so.

Marketing may convert some initially, but longer term I see the Reading masses reverting to type and getting themselves to and from London as quickly as possible.

Fine, let's just throw in the towel and not even try - or just go for the ring of steel option at Reading and Paddington to keep the horrible Reading commuters in their proper place, or even hire some big blokes to do Japanese-style platform pushing in reverse, keeping the Reading mobs off the nice shiny IETs...JOKE ALERT!!!!

The fast services have existed for a long time, the only difference is that they start from Didcot instead of Oxford, and they are formed of 387s instead of turbos.

Reading commuters will not set foot on Turbos unless they are desperate - which is probably just as well for people in Twyford and Maidenhead, otherwise they would not be able to get on board current services.

An air-conditioned 387, with 2+2 seats and plenty of tables, able to run at 110mph, is a very different proposition from being wedged into a bench of three on a 165. Which is why I think it is perfectly reasonable to say that these electric services will be a new option for Reading commuters, especially in 12-car formations able to empty a platform with ease.

 

[Schweir]

Perhaps an infrequent Paddington to Weymouth service. Could potentially call at Reading, Newbury, Pewsey, Westbury, Frome, Bruton, Castle Cary, Yeovil Pen Mill, Maiden Newton, Dorchester West, Upwey and Weymouth. This would also give Pewsey, Bruton and Frome more services to London.

 

[ooo]

Later Sunday services all year round on the Severn Beach Line

 

[hassaanhc]

Fine, let's just throw in the towel and not even try - or just go for the ring of steel option at Reading and Paddington to keep the horrible Reading commuters in their proper place, or even hire some big blokes to do Japanese-style platform pushing in reverse, keeping the Reading mobs off the nice shiny IETs...JOKE ALERT!!!!



Reading commuters will not set foot on Turbos unless they are desperate - which is probably just as well for people in Twyford and Maidenhead, otherwise they would not be able to get on board current services.

An air-conditioned 387, with 2+2 seats and plenty of tables, able to run at 110mph, is a very different proposition from being wedged into a bench of three on a 165. Which is why I think it is perfectly reasonable to say that these electric services will be a new option for Reading commuters, especially in 12-car formations able to empty a platform with ease.

Not sure why you are bothering with the effort . Clearly occasional passengers know far more than the regular ones... . We are lucky that GWR were able to get those extra HSTs for outer suburban services, otherwise the situation for passengers closer to London would have been truly dire. If people think overcrowding is bad now, imagine how much worse it would be when the 37x3-car and 20x2-car Turbos also had to be used on more services via Oxford or Newbury, leaving less 5-6 car sets.

I also think people actually haven't travelled on a 165 non-stop between Reading and Paddington, and those people wanting Reading passengers to do that would be the same ones that would go out of the way to avoid Voyagers and other DMUs in favour of HSTs . You really have to experience the engine and wind noise on a 165 at 90mph with open windows to realise why those who can use other trains prefer to do so (you can get 80% of the experience between Maidenhead and Twyford). 166s are quite a bit better, especially if all the windows are closed, but as both 165s and 166s look 99% the same from the outside they are lumped into the same category. There is a reason that GWR mark which Oxford fast trains are HSTs and 180s.

The travelling experience on a 387 is virtually the same as a HST, and a complete difference to Turbos. I have no doubt that they will be popular replacements for those who previously had to rely on Turbos.

 

[Clarence Yard]

WoE
1tph Paddington to Plymouth with 8tpd continuing to Penzance. (Non stop Reading to Taunton)
1tph Paddington to Westbury/Exeter/Paignton (with B&H calls)
1tph Cardiff - Taunton, with 1tp2hr extending to Plymouth (calling at Ivybridge) and 5tpd through to Penzance. (Semi fast Plymouth to Penzance)
1tph Plymouth to Penzance (All stops)
2tph Exmouth - Paignton (All stops)
1tph Exeter Central - Barny

Cornish branches no change.

First one will happen in this franchise with 9tpd continuing to Penzance. Non stop Reading to Taunton planned as well.
Hourly Paddington to Westbury/Exeter/Paignton will be next franchise - not enough stock. Average two hourly planned in this franchise.
Hourly Cardiff Taunton is happening with 2 each way to/from Penzance as part of the hourly Plymouth to Penzance locals, all stops. These Cardiff to Penzance workings will HST GTi sets.
2tph Exmouth-Paignton all stops (some requests excepted) is also happening. All day up to around 2000, then hourly. Barney will become hourly all day.

All to happen when the “December 2018” West Timetable can be finally introduced.

 

[greaterwest]

Perhaps an infrequent Paddington to Weymouth service. Could potentially call at Reading, Newbury, Pewsey, Westbury, Frome, Bruton, Castle Cary, Yeovil Pen Mill, Maiden Newton, Dorchester West, Upwey and Weymouth. This would also give Pewsey, Bruton and Frome more services to London.

Assuming a journey time of 1 hour and 40 minutes Paddington - Westbury and a further hour to Weymouth (omitting Newbury, Pewsey, the three halts and potentially Upwey), how many people commute from London to Yeovil, Dorchester and Weymouth directly (which is currently SWR's market)? That'd only be a rough journey time improvement of 10 minutes.

Would it justify the increased cost of a Dorchester/Weymouth season ticket routed via Westbury? Yeovil - London journey times would be most likely the same as they are, 2 and a half hours, based off the current timings of services, and Yeovil - Weymouth certainly isn't a high speed line (incidentally, does anyone know the linespeed there?)

 

[Xavi]

First one will happen in this franchise with 9tpd continuing to Penzance. Non stop Reading to Taunton planned as well.
Hourly Paddington to Westbury/Exeter/Paignton will be next franchise - not enough stock. Average two hourly planned in this franchise.
Hourly Cardiff Taunton is happening with 2 each way to/from Penzance as part of the hourly Plymouth to Penzance locals, all stops. These Cardiff to Penzance workings will HST GTi sets.
2tph Exmouth-Paignton all stops (some requests excepted) is also happening. All day up to around 2000, then hourly. Barney will become hourly all day.

All to happen when the “December 2018” West Timetable can be finally introduced.

Are the class 802 Bedwyn services separate from the 2-hourly (later hourly) Westbury/Exeter/Paignton?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I also think people actually haven't travelled on a 165 non-stop between Reading and Paddington, and those people wanting Reading passengers to do that would be the same ones that would go out of the way to avoid Voyagers and other DMUs in favour of HSTs . You really have to experience the engine and wind noise on a 165 at 90mph with open windows to realise why those who can use other trains prefer to do so (you can get 80% of the experience between Maidenhead and Twyford). 166s are quite a bit better, especially if all the windows are closed, but as both 165s and 166s look 99% the same from the outside they are lumped into the same category.

And because the aircon on Class 166s is not fit for purpose so 99% of the time the windows are open anyway.

 

[reddragon]

I often travel between Reading & Paddington, sometimes starting at Reading but usually via a connecting service.

If I can I use a Didcot TV fast service, as I get a seat and do not have to change at Reading.

At Reading, you simply head for p10/11 and get on the first train whatever it is. If it is packed as in tube packed, you check the boards to see if there is a train behind that might be emptier, otherwise you get on. If there was anyway to know that the following train had seats, some people would wait. There is no point waiting normally as you are unlikely to get a seat anyway. If people knew that there were class 387 crowd busters, they would certainly use them. Think of Reading-London as a tube service, because at 25 mins, its about the same journey time anyway.

Coming out of Paddington, I target the first fast that connects at Reading to my local train. I like the Bedwyn train as its always quiet, but any will do. GWR are clever not to mention Reading as the first stop on trains to Cornwall which is good and put trains to rare destinations close behind a regular Bristol / Cardiff trains.

I do not understand why so many of you are anti Reading commuter. They are the ones who heavily subsidise the services and enable trains to runs twice an hour instead of hourly. Without Reading, barely half the current service level would be viable. I am sure you can cope with tube levels of crowding for just one stop! I am sure that paying £52.50 to stand on a train for 25 mins is a good reason for commuters to complain more than those travelling longer distances!

Also, you do not use the relief lines because the journey is over 1 hour instead of 25 mins, trains are infrequent instead of tube frequency and if Reading commuters used them nobody at intermediate stations would have a chance of getting on. Maybe Crossrail will change that?

Trains are for all passengers anyway!

 

[HarleyDavidson]

We're anti Reading because they are paying compared to those from station West of Didcot/Newbury, a pittance and they're rude and arrogant towards those who pay considerably more for their tickets (both season & other tickets) for destinations beyond Reading/Didcot/Newbury.

They seem to think that they're so much more important than anyone else, they're really up themselves.

I'd like to see a "Premium" fare for those who want to use HS or IET(HST) services once the electrification fully kicks in, and a distinctly cheaper fare for the non HS/IET (HST) services, after all that's what SET do for their HS service to St Pancras.

 

[fairysdad]

I'd like to see a "Premium" fare for those who want to use HS or IET(HST) services once the electrification fully kicks in, and a distinctly cheaper fare for the non HS/IET (HST) services, after all that's what SET do for their HS service to St Pancras.

A probable problem I can see with this idea is that Southeastern can have tickets that say 'Not valid to St Pancras' which basically separates the HS1 service from the 'classic' lines, thus separating them according to route rather than train. GWR wouldn't be able to do the same as their high speed services go to the same station as their non-high speed services. Managing this idea - which, actually, I'm not against - would be a logistical nightmare.

 

[greaterwest]

A probable problem I can see with this idea is that Southeastern can have tickets that say 'Not valid to St Pancras' which basically separates the HS1 service from the 'classic' lines, thus separating them according to route rather than train. GWR wouldn't be able to do the same as their high speed services go to the same station as their non-high speed services. Managing this idea - which, actually, I'm not against - would be a logistical nightmare.

Perhaps having all long distance services at Reading as "Set Down Only" when London-bound "Pick Up Only" when Country-bound would help to mitigate this, once the 8 and 12 car 387s are in use, also the use of different platforms for these services where operationally possible.

 

[MarkyT]

Perhaps having all long distance services at Reading as "Set Down Only" when London-bound "Pick Up Only" when Country-bound would help to mitigate this, once the 8 and 12 car 387s are in use, also the use of different platforms for these services where operationally possible.

Don't forget a lot of inbound commuters alight at Reading, both from London and the west. Not allowing Reading-London commuters to reoccupy seats thus vacated would be a waste of available capacity. The 387 crowdbusters are the best solution, adding large numbers of guaranteed seats of equivalent quality and speed while not eroding the flexible turn up and go nature of the fast service.