If that is the case they should use a scenario that isn't train related.
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What would your answer be?
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If that is the case they should use a scenario that isn't train related.
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R
RailUK Forums
they probably could do but why? all it's doing is checking an individuals thought process!.......you could relate the question to any role but if a person applying has never done that role you're straight back to square one!
the assessments i took to get the job were no different and that was further down the line!.....i'd never been a train driver........i'd never been a mechanical engineer but i still had to take the fault finding test!
as the other guy said it's not about driving the train it's about a thought process and after all all they've given is a scenario they've not asked anything technical and the question has nothing to do with a candidates knowledge on trains.
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185
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These assessments ask some stupid 'no right answer' questions, I came across something very similar at a situational XC Trains assessment, recruitment head Paul Moran marked almost everyone down for having what their panel considered the wrong answer.
In my own experience, having had a train fire in 2002 at Poulton le Fylde (water in the electrics, my 158 went through the wash with open cab windows night before) the simple answer is, if practical, you (try) do them all at once.
You make the passenger PA whilst operating the door release, and start dialling 999 on your phone at the same time. The AFES switch turns on the firebottles quite quickly, under .1 of a second. Pressing the red button on the NRN took under .1 of a second and speaking to NR on an open line isn't hard.
The key thing seemed to be doing all of them near-simultaneously hence my letter of praise and £30 in vouchers from Arriva Trains.
When someone in a nice warm office writes these assessments, they rarely picture the confusion and panic in the minds of passengers, and often the ability of staff to do things very quickly and accurately, even with the deafening fire bell going just 3 inches behind the driver's seat. Experience seems to count for nowt nowadays.
In my own experience, having had a train fire in 2002 at Poulton le Fylde (water in the electrics, my 158 went through the wash with open cab windows night before) the simple answer is, if practical, you (try) do them all at once.
You make the passenger PA whilst operating the door release, and start dialling 999 on your phone at the same time. The AFES switch turns on the firebottles quite quickly, under .1 of a second. Pressing the red button on the NRN took under .1 of a second and speaking to NR on an open line isn't hard.
The key thing seemed to be doing all of them near-simultaneously hence my letter of praise and £30 in vouchers from Arriva Trains.
When someone in a nice warm office writes these assessments, they rarely picture the confusion and panic in the minds of passengers, and often the ability of staff to do things very quickly and accurately, even with the deafening fire bell going just 3 inches behind the driver's seat. Experience seems to count for nowt nowadays.
going slightly OT on this here but we do have the H.O.T procedure to follow with unattended bags - and normally a nice fat embarrassing PA announcement to follow up with to its owner.
TheVicLine
Member
C.
Why would you evacuate the train and station if you were unsure there was even a fire.
You are told this during driver training and also not to make an emergency call or request the attendance of the emergency services until you or the guard have checked first and verified that there is a fire.
Why would you evacuate the train and station if you were unsure there was even a fire.
You are told this during driver training and also not to make an emergency call or request the attendance of the emergency services until you or the guard have checked first and verified that there is a fire.
Well the OPC keep coming up with new tests
during my assessment we were the dummies on a new test and it had questions similar to this one luckily we were not scored on it
I have also completed a survey of how easy I found the assessments has anyone else?
during my assessment we were the dummies on a new test and it had questions similar to this one luckily we were not scored on it
I have also completed a survey of how easy I found the assessments has anyone else?
TheVicLine
Member
Ok so the fire alarms on the train go off when you are travelling through a tunnel, what would you do and in what order?
You have verified that there is a fire on the train what would you do now?
There is a signal at danger at the far end of the tunnel what would you do?
Argued this one over and over again when I was training and still don't agree with the official line on this, but I guess in an emergency like this then instinct as well as training would play a big part in your decisions as well as the unique factors in each different case.
You have verified that there is a fire on the train what would you do now?
There is a signal at danger at the far end of the tunnel what would you do?
Argued this one over and over again when I was training and still don't agree with the official line on this, but I guess in an emergency like this then instinct as well as training would play a big part in your decisions as well as the unique factors in each different case.
What is the official line on this ?
Here's how this scenario plays out in my head:
First protect yourself, then colleagues, then the public, then property.
Look out the window. Do you see billowing black smoke or a thin white haze, or nothing at all? Can you smell anything burning?
As others have said, in reality the rulebook says that you must first contact the signaller whenever the train is stopped out-of-course or unable to depart a station. Even if you didn't know that at an assessment, it's still logical to let someone know to prepare for a possible emergency even if it's uncomfirmed at this stage.
Don't make a PA just yet. If a passenger ran up to you at a station, chances are you're stopped there with doors open anyway. Passengers in danger will evacuate themselves, a PA would just cause panic.
If you have a guard, great. Buzz him up, make sure he or she is okay, then ask him to have a look. If not, go have a look yourself. Make sure to bring your phone. You told the signaller that's what you were going to do, so if he doesn't hear back from you he can send help.
If there's a fire, call the signaller using the phone you brought with you to get the adjacent line blocked, power switched off, and fire brigade rolling, then walk back to the front cab and set taillights or hazard lights on.
Now you make your PA. Calmly tell people that there's a problem with the train that requires them to leave immediately. Don't mention the words "fire" or "evacuate" to avoid panic.
Then walk through the train, locking out each coach as you go. Same as preparing to take the train empty to a depot.
Once the train is confirmed evacuated, contact the signaller to tell him that, then go find station staff (if a staffed station) to have them activate their own emergency plan, then find somewhere safe to sit and wait for the cavalry to arrive.
Now, replace the station in this scenario with a tunnel and a red signal at the end of it, and it gets more tricky. I suppose as long as the fire is unconfirmed, I would stop at the signal and make an emergency call to the signaller to either get the signal cleared or authority to pass it at extreme caution only as far as the train has cleared the tunnel.
First protect yourself, then colleagues, then the public, then property.
Look out the window. Do you see billowing black smoke or a thin white haze, or nothing at all? Can you smell anything burning?
As others have said, in reality the rulebook says that you must first contact the signaller whenever the train is stopped out-of-course or unable to depart a station. Even if you didn't know that at an assessment, it's still logical to let someone know to prepare for a possible emergency even if it's uncomfirmed at this stage.
Don't make a PA just yet. If a passenger ran up to you at a station, chances are you're stopped there with doors open anyway. Passengers in danger will evacuate themselves, a PA would just cause panic.
If you have a guard, great. Buzz him up, make sure he or she is okay, then ask him to have a look. If not, go have a look yourself. Make sure to bring your phone. You told the signaller that's what you were going to do, so if he doesn't hear back from you he can send help.
If there's a fire, call the signaller using the phone you brought with you to get the adjacent line blocked, power switched off, and fire brigade rolling, then walk back to the front cab and set taillights or hazard lights on.
Now you make your PA. Calmly tell people that there's a problem with the train that requires them to leave immediately. Don't mention the words "fire" or "evacuate" to avoid panic.
Then walk through the train, locking out each coach as you go. Same as preparing to take the train empty to a depot.
Once the train is confirmed evacuated, contact the signaller to tell him that, then go find station staff (if a staffed station) to have them activate their own emergency plan, then find somewhere safe to sit and wait for the cavalry to arrive.
Now, replace the station in this scenario with a tunnel and a red signal at the end of it, and it gets more tricky. I suppose as long as the fire is unconfirmed, I would stop at the signal and make an emergency call to the signaller to either get the signal cleared or authority to pass it at extreme caution only as far as the train has cleared the tunnel.
There was 124 scenarios. Some train relayed some not. The opc are there to test your ability to learn new information quickly test your memory and reactions and your suitability. Most of the questions have all right answers so doesn't really matter what order as such but I remember one question being
you need to drive your manager to another depot (in a car) and whilst your driving a company vehicle it's your responsibility to make sure everyone is wearing a seatbelt but your manager refuses.
I can only remember 2 of the options but they were
You refuse to drive until he wears his seat belt
You ask him to wear it but he refuses but as he is your manager you drive anyway
This is where they are testing whether you wil just do what your manager says regardless of rules or whether you stick to them. If you do it regardless they don't want you driving trains. The question about the fire is not something a non train driver wpuld know the correct procedure but they are pretty much all ok in any order
tsr
Established Member
Aside from what the OPC are looking for (and although I have passed many of their station and on-train role assessments as a candidate, I do not know exactly how I would have answered this in the past), this is what my training and experience tells me to do:
1. A fire comes under the category of "train accident", at least in my copy of the rule book. Therefore procedures to be followed are those taken in the event of a train accident. Note "procedures" here. The OPC are not looking for people who make it up on the spot! They want people who, presented with a dangerous situation, can move calmly to working "out of course" and assessing / reacting to the hazard.
2. In considering this as a train accident, it is imperative that the train affected is stopped in a suitable position. A station may or may not be a good place - this is debatable. You usually have the optimum evacuation route in the immediate area by stopping at a station, but woe betide if the fire spreads to station buildings. But enough of this. You are stopped and, as it happens, in a station. I would probably have a train stopped there if I could, unless the fire was particularly vicious.
3. Which lines are obstructed by the fire, now the train has stopped? To understand this, you have to know what the fire is. You have been alerted, in this case by a passenger. So check out where and what the fire is. Don't assume one way or another that there is or isn't a problem. Tell other crew where you're going, and look for it. OK, so it's genuine, and severe, and you need all lines blocked at your location (for example). Then do that! The quickest method nowadays where I work is the GSM-R red button. Push it. If the radio works, make an emergency call. Block the lines and, if applicable, get an emergency switch-off. If it doesn't, five on the bell (staff leaving train), get to the nearest place where you can access the track safely, and lay TCOCs. Consider arrangements for emergency protection and which options present enough time to ensure immediate passenger safety. If the driver or other competent person is available, get them to lay detonators as per the Rule Book.
But... In practical terms, for either of these options, you may well have been in a cab first. So I would also have pushed the emergency stop button (before the GSM-R, actually, if I could), then the engine stop button, the hazard lights button (hint: if you don't do this before laying TCOCs, do it afterwards), and the switch for displaying a red light forward (if possible). Actions would be in that order. Each of these options takes a very minimal time.
4. Now you have an emergency call and line block etc. sorted, or protection using TCOCs, you have provided the best possible environment for an emergency evacuation, which is to be carried out when the train environment is immediately unsafe for passengers to remain in. Unfortunately, many passengers might not actually realise that, so at this point you must get people's attention via the PA and other safe means. Inform them that they must leave the train due to an incident onboard. Repeat the message once. Then work your way from the closest safe position you can get to the fire to your position of safety. Move people as far as possible from the train. Use everything you've got to keep people away. Don't discourage people from carrying luggage (it'll waste your time), but don't let them go back for anything. Don't try to rescue anyone where you would be in danger. And use other competent persons' skills to the best of your ability.
1. A fire comes under the category of "train accident", at least in my copy of the rule book. Therefore procedures to be followed are those taken in the event of a train accident. Note "procedures" here. The OPC are not looking for people who make it up on the spot! They want people who, presented with a dangerous situation, can move calmly to working "out of course" and assessing / reacting to the hazard.
2. In considering this as a train accident, it is imperative that the train affected is stopped in a suitable position. A station may or may not be a good place - this is debatable. You usually have the optimum evacuation route in the immediate area by stopping at a station, but woe betide if the fire spreads to station buildings. But enough of this. You are stopped and, as it happens, in a station. I would probably have a train stopped there if I could, unless the fire was particularly vicious.
3. Which lines are obstructed by the fire, now the train has stopped? To understand this, you have to know what the fire is. You have been alerted, in this case by a passenger. So check out where and what the fire is. Don't assume one way or another that there is or isn't a problem. Tell other crew where you're going, and look for it. OK, so it's genuine, and severe, and you need all lines blocked at your location (for example). Then do that! The quickest method nowadays where I work is the GSM-R red button. Push it. If the radio works, make an emergency call. Block the lines and, if applicable, get an emergency switch-off. If it doesn't, five on the bell (staff leaving train), get to the nearest place where you can access the track safely, and lay TCOCs. Consider arrangements for emergency protection and which options present enough time to ensure immediate passenger safety. If the driver or other competent person is available, get them to lay detonators as per the Rule Book.
But... In practical terms, for either of these options, you may well have been in a cab first. So I would also have pushed the emergency stop button (before the GSM-R, actually, if I could), then the engine stop button, the hazard lights button (hint: if you don't do this before laying TCOCs, do it afterwards), and the switch for displaying a red light forward (if possible). Actions would be in that order. Each of these options takes a very minimal time.
4. Now you have an emergency call and line block etc. sorted, or protection using TCOCs, you have provided the best possible environment for an emergency evacuation, which is to be carried out when the train environment is immediately unsafe for passengers to remain in. Unfortunately, many passengers might not actually realise that, so at this point you must get people's attention via the PA and other safe means. Inform them that they must leave the train due to an incident onboard. Repeat the message once. Then work your way from the closest safe position you can get to the fire to your position of safety. Move people as far as possible from the train. Use everything you've got to keep people away. Don't discourage people from carrying luggage (it'll waste your time), but don't let them go back for anything. Don't try to rescue anyone where you would be in danger. And use other competent persons' skills to the best of your ability.
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delticdeano74
Member
My thoughts exactly mate. Think one or two really are over egging the pudding here.
Thank you! In the scenario the train is already at a station - no point in wasting time investigating - get people off speedily and safely, if there's no fire you can pop them back on just as speedily.
alot of people as has been said are "over egging the pudding"
there's talking of pressing certain buttons checking gages etc. obviously you are trained train drivers so you know what to look for and do and also the correct order but at this point the people taking these tests are joe public and havent got a clue(well i havent anyway) that's not what the OPC are testing you on as in all honesty your not expected to know what gages and buttons are in the cab thats why you have 9 months training. they are testing your psychological state and your ability to learn and function.
if you have someone that had a good ability to learn and respects rules and procedures then thats a good start. everything else will be taught.
there's talking of pressing certain buttons checking gages etc. obviously you are trained train drivers so you know what to look for and do and also the correct order but at this point the people taking these tests are joe public and havent got a clue(well i havent anyway) that's not what the OPC are testing you on as in all honesty your not expected to know what gages and buttons are in the cab thats why you have 9 months training. they are testing your psychological state and your ability to learn and function.
if you have someone that had a good ability to learn and respects rules and procedures then thats a good start. everything else will be taught.
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