What's the current news on 60009 "Union of South Africa"?

Discussion in 'Railtours & Preservation' started by Peter C, 24 Sep 2019.

  1. PUFFINGBILLY

    PUFFINGBILLY Member

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    My goodness there are some rude judgemental attitudes here. Not one would have the guts to express such arrogant views face to face with the man himself but instead hide behind a keyboard. If Mr Cameron should read such remarks I suspect they would make him even more determined to do his own thing & remove all chances of being in their vicinity.
    The man has every right to do as he wishes, he is neither a charity nor has to be subservient to others. I thank him for giving me the opportunity to admire his lovely engine at minimum cost to me but maximum cost to him.
    I wish him well & if wants to stick two fingers up to the rude puffer-train anoraks I'll join him.
     
  2. Peter C

    Peter C Established Member

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    I'm not defending people on here, but:
    They are entitled to their view (and you are entitled to yours, although it may not be the same as theirs).
    People on the Internet will always be more mean behind keyboards and screens than face-to-face. This has been happening for years and won't change anytime soon.

    I too am grateful to Mr. Cameron for allowing his locomotive to be shown at places such as Didcot Railway Centre and on railtours for the public to see. He has done a lot with the engine and he is entitled to do what he wants with it, when he wants.

    Thanks,

    -Peter
     
  3. Peter C

    Peter C Established Member

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    Oh no! Hopefully planning permission is sorted soon. If I was Mr. Cameron right now, I'd be livid. It's his loco and he can do what he wants with it, he's made what he wants to do with it clear, and it isn't going 100% to plan.

    -Peter
     
  4. Kingspanner

    Kingspanner Member

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    I'm only making an observation, not criticising anyone, I just wanted to add that some owners of heritage items consider themelves to be temporary "custodians" with all the responsibilty and expense that status brings....
     
  5. trebor79

    trebor79 Established Member

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    I absolutely would, politely, tell him to his face that he's being a tad selfish. Or at least I perceive him to be acting in a selfish manner.
    As I said upthread, he's completely entitled to do as he wishes. He could have it scrapped and be well within his right to do so.
    That doesn't mean he isn't being selfish.
     
  6. Steamie Boxes

    Steamie Boxes Member

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    If he wishes to keep said locos, and doesn't want to run them anymore; it's up to him. The railway world doesn't revolve around enthusiasts and what can and can't be ran or else we won't get anywhere. Whatever is best for Mr Cameron should be what is put in place
     
  7. alexl92

    alexl92 Established Member

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    Honestly, I'm with those who feel it's a bit selfish. Yes, he's brought pleasure to literally hundreds of thousands of people over many years, and I'm grateful that both these locomotives have been preserved - we wouldn't even be having this discussion if he hadn't poured a huge amount of his personal wealth into the engines. But it's not like either of them are in the Green Arrow scenario of needing a significant repair or anything - he admitted in an interview last year that it's basically because he's too old to keep being hands-on involved and doesn't want anyone else to run them.

    These are two locomotives which have been operated fairly recently, and with an decent overhaul (as opposed to a full-blown restoration) could run again, are/were Main Line certified/equipped and both would be in high demand both on heritage lines and railtours. I could understand it if they were beyond economical repair or required a significant original part to be replaced in order to run again, or even if one or both were of a type that realistically wouldn't be worth reviving because they wouldn't be useful - but (as far as I know based on what's been reported in the railway media) that isn't the case here.

    As for the whole 'keyboard warrior/wouldn't say it to his face' argument - I'd love to have a polite, courteous chat with him about it, and explain my view and hear his - no problem. However, the vast majority of people on here won't ever get that chance; this is the closest they'll get. If they're expressing an opinion and not simply spewing blind hatred, well, that's what the forum is for. Before anyone calls me a hypocrite - yes, I've just said I feel it's selfish; I do, but that is my opinion and I'm not about to start calling him immature names.
     
  8. silverfoxcc

    silverfoxcc Member

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    Trebor

    It was on his farm for several years prior to going main line, so what is your problem? As he rightly says it is his loco, and he has spent tens of thousands keeping it running, in fact he has owned it for longer than it was in LNER/BR ownership. How much have you contributed or for that matter anyone else? Either put up or shut up. As much as i will miss it and even more 61994, i support him all the way
    And if his museum gets the go ahead it will be more about farming than trains
     
  9. Peter C

    Peter C Established Member

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    Honestly - I couldn't care what Mr Cameron does with 60009. I asked on here for the news on it as I'd seen it a few times and wondered what it was doing now. In all reality, what is going to happen to the railway community when 60009 enters a museum? Unless you have a phobia of museums, or a weird love for 60009, it's not the end of the world.
    (also - @silverfoxcc - that's interesting about how he's owned it for longer than BR/LNER! :D)

    -Peter
     
  10. Meole

    Meole Member

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    Failed at Rugby on the way to head a railtour on saturday apparently.
     
  11. Steamie Boxes

    Steamie Boxes Member

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    Failed with a hotbox, said axlebox was on fire
     
  12. railnut21

    railnut21 New Member

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    Planning permission was Denied for the engine part so he has adjusted the plans to be farm focused only. He will probably be looking around for somewhere to display his engines now
     
  13. matt

    matt Forum Staff Staff Member Global Moderator

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    Was sat in Rugby Carraige Sidings when I arrived last night so presumably still there.
     
  14. Steamie Boxes

    Steamie Boxes Member

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    I heard a rumour she's gone, but I'm about 200 miles away so don't have a clue
     
  15. The_Train

    The_Train Established Member

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    Oh the irony :lol:

    I think you'll find that the 'rude puffer-train anoraks', as you so rudely referred to them from behind your keyboard, have every right to the opinion that said owner is being selfish with 60009 just as much as you have the right to express your opinion that he isn't.

    For the record, my opinion is that he can do what he likes with it. I enjoy seeing steam because it's something different but I wouldn't miss it if steam never ventured onto the mainline again as I am from the glorious diesel era - I'm more upset that the very selfish LNER are withdrawing HSTs in the coming weeks :frown:
     
  16. Nippy

    Nippy Member

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    Just stopped on the Up Slow approaching Wolverton with a hot box. Will proceed at 20mph to Bletchley when it has cooled down......
     
  17. Islineclear3_1

    Islineclear3_1 Established Member

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    I bet you wouldn't...
     
  18. Nippy

    Nippy Member

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    Still standing between Hanslope Jn and Wolverton
     
  19. Peter C

    Peter C Established Member

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    Well done that man! :D My thoughts exactly.

    -Peter
     
  20. Monty

    Monty Established Member

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    I imagine number 9 will probably now go into long term store somewhere, the only reason she ran in the first place was because John Cameron was willing to pay for it out of his own pocket. With Sir Nigel Gresley's overhaul coming to a close and that Bittern will probably steam sometime again in the near future I don't think there are enough groups or operators whole be willing to fund further overhauls.

    61994 on the other may have a future, she's a 3 cylinder mogul, which is a useful thing to have on today's preserved railways. Who knows, where ever she may end up John Cameron may be open to the idea of a long term loan agreement if the railway is willing to fund the work themselves..
     
  21. Merle Haggard

    Merle Haggard Member

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    60009 was standing at Rugby this morning, heading South with a support coach. It's in B.R. livery and this reminded me that the last few surviving A4s, near the end of their lives, received the diagonal yellow stripe on the cab side.

    I'm sure that many will remember that this was applied to locos. that were banned south of Crewe because there was insufficient OLE clearance...
     
  22. michaelh

    michaelh Member

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    Well said!
     
  23. michaelh

    michaelh Member

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    Do you think that he'd give a toss about what you perceive?
     
  24. Peter C

    Peter C Established Member

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    And does the person you've quoted give two hoots about your comment? No, probably not.

    -Peter
     
  25. michaelh

    michaelh Member

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    And do I care if he does? Definitely not
     
  26. Peter C

    Peter C Established Member

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    I don't understand your original post.

    -Peter
     
  27. Islineclear3_1

    Islineclear3_1 Established Member

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    A long shot but could she keep Bitterne company at Margate - at least for the short term?
     
  28. trebor79

    trebor79 Established Member

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    Possibly not, but you've quotes me out of context. Someone further up thread said those of us criticising wouldn't say it to his face. I would, politely.
    I don't know why some people are getting so heated about this.
    They are his locos to do as he wishes with. He could scrap them if he wishes. I'm not denying any of that. I'm just saying that, in my view it's selfish.
    You might not agree and Mr Cameron might not agree. That's fine, I'm not going to fall out with anyone about it.
     
  29. 50039

    50039 Member

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    RailwayHerald is still showing it for the outward leg next Saturday’s York Yuletide Express - guessing that’s unlikely now??
     

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