Wheelchair passenger not allowed to board

[MidnightFlyer]

Has anyone seen this?

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=43641471&postcount=2599
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=43642157&postcount=2601

The plot thickens! He actually speaks quite good English... when's the verdict from Northern etc due on this?

 

[trentside]

I'd presume that Northern's offices will re-open tomorrow, then we'll hear their side.

 

[Ferret]

Has anyone seen this?

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=43641471&postcount=2599
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=43642157&postcount=2601

Oh dear! Any comment Mr K?

 

[mrcheek]

The plot thickens! He actually speaks quite good English... when's the verdict from Northern etc due on this?

I always like people when they apologise for not speaking good English, but then they make a good effort, and then end up being more coherent than most other "English speaking" internet users!

 

[142094]

I'd take it with a pinch of salt. Funnily enough he had to be searching Digital Spy for news of the cricket scandal and happened to stumble on this story. More than likely someone else who wants their 5 minutes of fame.

 

[jon0844]

Yes, I took no real notice of the comments from that poster and wouldn't unless they could give a lot more detail. The guard took details of witnesses it seems, so I am sure there will be some comments in the investigation from people who were definitely there.

 

[Hobbit Feet]

I'd presume that Northern's offices will re-open tomorrow, then we'll hear their side.

Do you think we'll ever hear the conclusion of all this?

I'd like to think so.

 

[Anvil1984]

Yeah I can't take those comments as any sort of evidence, not saying there isnt any truth there but nothing detailed enough at present, but there will be no doubt witnesses taken, its the first thing you do as staff in cases like this. I did it a while back when I kicked someone off the last train at night for not providing details / payment for a journey and was called a couple of names, actually in that case the passengers volunteered which was nice.

We are all saying we'll await Northerns findings, do you think we actually will? We might only find out when we see or hear off this or any other forum / the railway rumourmill of the outcome of the disciplinary process if undertaken or if and when the guard resumes active duty

 

[jimrbrobinson]

The first person outside of Northern Rail who will know anything at all will be Mr. Khaliq. They will discuss the general outline of the outcome of the investigation with him, and what they propose to do. They will most probably not discuss specific staff with him. At some point there may be a statement to the press, but this will no doubt reveal very little other than 'reviewing procedures and standard' and 'examining and improving training' to 'ensure that lessons are learned from Mr. Khaliq's experience' and prevent reoccurrence, etc. etc. I agree with Anvil, more (some of it probably erroneous) details will emerge over time 'through the grapevine', whether it be here, or on DS, or elsewhere. However, at the present time I feel there is still a lot we do not know, such as what went on before the period captured in the film, and so it is impossible to speculate what the outcome will be, as this will be known only to people that were there and those who are directly involved in the investigation.

 

[Anvil1984]

There is a lot we don't know as you say the moments and previous 10 minutes leading up, the "last time" the guard was about to mention and to be honest any past experiences the complainant has actually had, we will never know those unless you were there at any point. To be honest I will probably trust the grapevine more than the OP due to previous inaccuracies but its not always truthful, but i have some informed contacts

 

[Choo Choo]

You can't really trust him to come back on here and tell of what Northern Rail said to him though can you? If it didn't go in his favour he would still come on here telling porkies.

 

[CarterUSM]

You can't really trust him to come back on here and tell of what Northern Rail said to him though can you? If it didn't go in his favour he would still come on here telling porkies.

You're spot on, but if he is man enough he should do at the very least.

 

[jimrbrobinson]

I didn't say we'd hear it from Mr. Khaliq (unless he's been in the right all along and the investigation finds in his favour; I would not be surprised if he came back to gloat if his vitreolic parting shot of yesterday is anything to go by).

However, I wouldn't be surprised if all we ever get to hear comes from other forum members through 'inside information' or even 'insider gossip'. I would certainly like to see/hear something of the Guard's side of the story revealed (probably unlikely), especially given the damage done to his reputation so far by the footage, allegations and comments that have resulted from the one-sided media coverage, etc. thus far. I certainly hope that if cleared, the Guard will be able to resume his duties without any further suffering.

 

[Holden]

Hello.

I am first time poster who has joined this thread purely to add my observations to the debate regarding Mr Khaliq and Northern Rail.

If this violates forum rules then I am happy to withdraw and wish all on the forum well.

I am not related or know any one connected with this incident of their families , I have no dealings with Northern Rail other than being an occasional passenger.( around twice a month using the Manchester Victoria to Huddersfield line)

If the mods wish to look at my email address it may give a clue to my occupation !!

First of all I will make observations about the behavior observed in the you tube video clip then some reflections on comments made by Mr Khaliq.

Video

The initial interaction between the guard and Mr Khaliq would indicate that this was continuation of a discussion rather than the beginning of one, this would indicate that an exchange between the two parties had started prior to the filming.

Also Mr Khaliq vocal intonation to his wife show signs of stress and anger all understandable if we take Mr Khaliq's testimony at face value.

The guard on the other hand shows irritation at being filmed but does not display any form of anger, even as Mr Khaliq repeats his demands many times.

Much has been made of the guard ignoring Mr Khaliq, pleas , however I would venture another hypothesis.

That the guard had already explained the reasons for not deploying the ramp prior to the filming, and was trying to not get in to an argument with a passenger so he withdrew from the conversation so as not to escalate the issue ( I have actually trained service staff to use this technique because it is very hard to have a one sided argument ).

Mr Khaliq makes two very interesting statements in the video, the first is his reference to 'the driver who was sacked, he says to the guard 'OK you can go '.

This does not feel like the narrative of a victim it is indeed the opposite ( I will come to this later )

Another observation is that Mr Khaliq does not ask any of the other passengers for help ,if he felt frightened surely he would have asked for assistance,

Try this , play the video with sound only and no picture the whole piece takes on a different perspective. Mr Khaliq sounds very confrontational the guard sounds like he is being intimidated . try it .

Final point, the film clearly shows the guard making reference to the height of the train to a member of staff with holding a radio. Are we to believe that the member of staff would put up with Mr Khaliq's continuous questions when he could have given him the same answer he gave his colleague with the radio?

Could it be that the guard had already told Mr Khaliq the reason ?

I also find it interesting that a clearly intelligent man like Mr Khaliq would put his difficulties in the public domain before the investigation was complete.

Finally their seems to be quite a lot of inconsistency in Mr Khaliq's account his forum post 422 is quite reveling, it states:-

"And is the ramp reaching the end of the wall my fault, the guard's or the train company's? "

Is this now an admission that Mr Khaliqc oncedes that the train he tried to board was not suitable to alight him at this station, and if so are we looking a a civil rights campaign for wheel chair users .

Using a set up video that makes Mr Khaliq in to some kind of hero in the eyes of the wheel chair using community?

Thank you for reading

 

[CarterUSM]

Hello.

I am first time poster who has joined this thread purely to add my observations to the debate regarding Mr Khaliq and Northern Rail.

If this violates forum rules then I am happy to withdraw and wish all on the forum well.

I am not related or know any one connected with this incident of their families , I have no dealings with Northern Rail other than being an occasional passenger.( around twice a month using the Manchester Victoria to Huddersfield line)

If the mods wish to look at my email address it may give a clue to my occupation !!

First of all I will make observations about the behavior observed in the you tube video clip then some reflections on comments made by Mr Khaliq.

Video

The initial interaction between the guard and Mr Khaliq would indicate that this was continuation of a discussion rather than the beginning of one, this would indicate that an exchange between the two parties had started prior to the filming.

Also Mr Khaliq vocal intonation to his wife show signs of stress and anger all understandable if we take Mr Khaliq's testimony at face value.

The guard on the other hand shows irritation at being filmed but does not display any form of anger, even as Mr Khaliq repeats his demands many times.

Much has been made of the guard ignoring Mr Khaliq, pleas , however I would venture another hypothesis.

That the guard had already explained the reasons for not deploying the ramp prior to the filming, and was trying to not get in to an argument with a passenger so he withdrew from the conversation so as not to escalate the issue ( I have actually trained service staff to use this technique because it is very hard to have a one sided argument ).

Mr Khaliq makes two very interesting statements in the video, the first is his reference to 'the driver who was sacked, he says to the guard 'OK you can go '.

This does not feel like the narrative of a victim it is indeed the opposite ( I will come to this later )

Another observation is that Mr Khaliq does not ask any of the other passengers for help ,if he felt frightened surely he would have asked fo assistance,

Try this , play the video with sound only and no picture the whole piece takes on a different perspective. Mr Khaliq sounds very confrontational the guard sounds like he is being intimidated . try it .

Final point, the film clearly shows the guard making reference to the height of the train to a member of staff with holding a radio. Are we to believe that the member of staff would put Mr Khaliq's continuous questions when he could have given him the same answer he gave his colleague with the radio?

Could it be that the guard had already told Mr Khaliq the reason ?

I also find it interesting that a clearly intelligent man like Mr Khaliq would put his difficulties in the public domain before the investigation was complete.

Finally their seems to be quite a lot of inconsistency in Mr Khaliq's account his forum post 422 is quite reveling, it states:-

"And is the ramp reaching the end of the wall my fault, the guard's or the train company's? "

Is this now an admission that Mr Khaliqc oncedes that the train he tried to board was not suitable to alight him at this station, and if so are we looking a a civil rights campaign for wheel chair users .

Using a set up video that makes Mr Khaliq in to some kind of hero in the eyes of the wheel chair using community?

Thank you for reading

Thank you for posting a well thought out and interesting insight into the debacle, and welcome!

 

[Anvil1984]

Nope I'm sure theres no forum violations there, I joined for the same reason but then branched off onto other threads. Anyway cracking post well analysised from my viewpoint, welcome to the forum from another new poster

 

[jimrbrobinson]

Hi Holden and welcome. Thank you for joining us and sharing your thoughts, a lot of which I think you will agree tallies with entries by myself and others from this thread around this time last week and the following day or two, but yours is an excellent summation of what is contained in the video. I hope you'll find this forum site as entertaining, interesting and informative as I do.

 

[Holden]

I wonder if Mr Khaliq could answer a question?.

At 1.33 on the youtube video Mr Khaliq asks the man with the walke talkie
" why is he....." the guard responds " because the last time".

The guard is is cut off my Mr Khaliq who says " If you touch me its assault"

Very simple question Mr Khaliq . what happened the 'last time'? what was the guard referring to?.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I wonder if Mr Khaliq could answer a question?.

At 1.33 on the youtube video Mr Khaliq asks the man with the walke talkie
" why is he....." the guard responds " because the last time".

The guard is is cut off my Mr Khaliq who says " If you touch me its assault"

Very simple question Mr Khaliq . what happened the 'last time'? what was the guard referring to?.

Dont expect him back until an official verdict....

 

[jimrbrobinson]

I wonder if Mr Khaliq could answer a question?.

At 1.33 on the youtube video Mr Khaliq asks the man with the walke talkie
" why is he....." the guard responds " because the last time".

The guard is is cut off my Mr Khaliq who says " If you touch me its assault"

Very simple question Mr Khaliq . what happened the 'last time'? what was the guard referring to?.

I think that's pretty much what was repeatedly asked on here and on the DS thread. The account given by Mr. K of the what had happened before the film starts just didn't seem to tally with what is seen on the film. Unfortunately, the responses from him were always vague, with the simple statement that no reason was given to him, the guard said 'no' and walked away without any explanation, which is highly dubious to me. Like all I wait and hope we'll hear the outcome in due course. Especially hope that if the Guard was innocent of any wrongdoing, he is able to to return to work without problems - especially by some of the idiot brigade who made threats against his safety on YouTube and the Maily Dail website.

 

[222007]

Thank you all for your concern. I have decided to refrain from posting in this thread - and on other forums in relation to this topic - until the results of the investigation. An investigation which hopefully will finally bring an end to all the attacks against me.

I would hope Northern have seen this forum. Why would you want to blab untill an investigation was complete?

 

[Holden]

I feel that I have contributed all I can on this topic.

I stated in my first post that joined the forum to share my observations and ask a follow up question, so I will depart ( pun I know !!).

Should any more information on this event enter the public domain , then I may well return to share more observations.

Best wishes to all on the forum.

Holden

 

[Flamingo]

A few weeks on, I'm just curious if any more has occurred on this story?

 

[CarterUSM]

Aye, it has all went a bit quiet. I'm sure someone will post if they hear anything. Hopefully. :-\

 

[jon0844]

I hope that the next things we hear will be from the likes of Network Rail, Northern Rail or the guard making his own statement. May take a while, if the investigation is still continuing.

I just hope that Northern Rail doesn't just take the easy option (from a PR perspective) and give in. They might figure that 99% of people have already forgotten about the incident now, so why draw any more attention to it.

 

[CarterUSM]

I hope that the next things we hear will be from the likes of Network Rail, Northern Rail or the guard making his own statement. May take a while, if the investigation is still continuing.

I just hope that Northern Rail doesn't just take the easy option (from a PR perspective) and give in. They might figure that 99% of people have already forgotten about the incident now, so why draw any more attention to it.

That has flashed through my mind also, it is a very PR based business nowadays, though it is my opinion that they would be letting the guard down somewhat by keeping schtum. In any case, we will need to await further info before we make any final(?) judgement.

 

[Greenback]

Assming that the investigation clears the guard of any wrong doing, surely he should have a say in how he wants the matter resolved? After all, he is the one who has been publicly pilloried (and worse) - he may wish a line to be drawn under the matter and just get on with his job and his life. Alternatively, he may wish to receive a full public apology! It very much depends on the individual, but I do think that Northern should have a high level of regard for his wishes, whatever they may be.

 

[jon0844]

I do hope Northern Rail read this thread, and the DS one, as well as the many other forum threads that the wheelchair user never noticed!

I am sure that the many admissions from him will be very important in deciding the outcome of an investigation.

 

[me123]

I am sure that the many admissions from him will be very important in deciding the outcome of an investigation.

But they would have to take these with a degree of caution. There's no proof (other than his saying so) that it's actually him on these (and other) forums. It would be rather pathetic if it were an imposter, but one of the things about the internet is that there is a pretty significant degree of anonymity.

 

[jon0844]

Yes, that is true - but I'd suspect it's more likely that it WAS him and he will try and pretend it wasn't. He gave too much information, especially before he posted the video on YouTube, which makes the imposter theory somewhat unlikely.

Now, on this forum, it is possible - but DS? He's been on there since before the incident happened.