When and why did tickets stop being issued on trains?

[Caractacus]

New user. Been perusing the disputes thread pages with interest and noted that many people who accidentally buy a wrong ticket, offer to purchase a correct ticket from the conductor and are rebuffed.

I've been using trains across Yorkshire for at least 25 years, but more rarely recently due to illness and being more housebound. As far as I understood it, it was always possible to purchase a ticket from the conductor after boarding the train. Even after the larger stations like Leeds installed ticket barriers, conductors always toured the train after most small stations so that new boarders could buy a ticket.

So what is the situation nowadays? Is this a regional or a company thing? Or a London thing? Obviously closer to London, every station has barriers meaning a ticket must be purchased before boarding, but I don't get why there is a difference between being able to purchase a ticket after boarding up north as a regular occurrence, while, from reading the boards, it seems to be pretty much 100% considered a crime every time to try and do so in the south. I'd have thought that it's within living memory for most of us that purchasing a ticket from the conductor was a universal thing and it's so universally thought of - that it seems that people still think it is a thing. When and why did this change and do you think it has been effectively communicated to the public? Are the companies penalising people who are simply going about using trains as they used to be?

 

[MarlowDonkey]

Are the companies penalising people who are simply going about using trains as they used to be?

That's likely. Go back far enough in time and it was the norm for tickets to be purchased from a ticket office before even being allowed onto the platform. In the interests of reducing the cost of running British Rail as it then was in the 1960's and later, the paytrain concept was introduced whereby you were expected to buy a ticket from the conductor/guard.

The latest wheeze seems to be to penalise those who board a train and then use their phone to buy an appropriate ticket.

If the expected norm is now to wave a specialist card, phone, debit or credit card at a reader before boarding a train, I doubt the change of expectation has been adequately communicated. For that matter if you want something a little more complex, you are expected to battle it out with a ticket machine rather than explain your requirement to a conductor/guard.

 

[yorkie]

I'd have thought that it's within living memory for most of us that purchasing a ticket from the conductor was a universal thing and it's so universally thought of - that it seems that people still think it is a thing. When and why did this change and do you think it has been effectively communicated to the public? Are the companies penalising people who are simply going about using trains as they used to be?

It depends on where you are.

If you are in the Glasgow suburban area, for example, many stations do not have ticket issuing facilities, and you may be sold a ticket by friendly travelling ticket inspectors before the train has even departed. This has not changed.

On TPE here in Yorkshire it's a lottery; you might see a Guard who may sell you a ticket, but on the other hand you may not see anyone at all (especially during the evening). If a revenue inspector finds you boarded a station where facilities were in place to sell your chosen ticket using your valid payment method, you would be given a Penalty Fare (or reported for prosecution if they thought you were fare evading). That wouldn't have been the case 10 or 20 years ago.

Meanwhile, if you take an SWR inner suburban train, the Guard wouldn't be able to sell you a ticket and wouldn't carry out a ticket check; they are non-commercial. If a ticket inspector asked to see your ticket, then again the best you could hope for is a Penalty Fare. This has been the case for about 30 years.

On the other hand, Grand Central would welcome selling you the appropriate fare from King's Cross and you are entitled to inform gateline staff you will be buying on board, and they have to let you through without a ticket.

 

[AlbertBeale]

Surely the basic rule is pretty straightforward these days - if there's an open ticket office or a functioning ticket machine which will sell you the ticket you want by the method you want to pay (ie you can choose cash or card), then you should buy before boarding the train. If there's no way to get your ticket beforehand, then you're allowed to start your journey and get a ticket at the first opportunity (which might in some cases be from someone on the train). The rationale being, presumably, that since ticket checks on board are no longer routine, and since some stations have no barrier or staff checking you when you exit, then the "buy your ticket [if you can] before you start your journey, otherwise you're in breach of the byelaws" rule is necessary in order to deter widespread fare evasion.

 

[Caractacus]

It depends on where you are.

If you are in the Glasgow suburban area, for example, many stations do not have ticket issuing facilities, and you may be sold a ticket by friendly travelling ticket inspectors before the train has even departed. This has not changed.

On TPE here in Yorkshire it's a lottery; you might see a Guard who may sell you a ticket, but on the other hand you may not see anyone at all (especially during the evening). If a revenue inspector finds you boarded a station where facilities were in place to sell your chosen ticket using your valid payment method, you would be given a Penalty Fare (or reported for prosecution if they thought you were fare evading). That wouldn't have been the case 10 or 20 years ago.

Meanwhile, if you take an SWR inner suburban train, the Guard wouldn't be able to sell you a ticket and wouldn't carry out a ticket check; they are non-commercial. If a ticket inspector asked to see your ticket, then again the best you could hope for is a Penalty Fare. This has been the case for about 30 years.

On the other hand, Grand Central would welcome selling you the appropriate fare from King's Cross and you are entitled to inform gateline staff you will be buying on board, and they have to let you through without a ticket.

So it's basically a regional and corporate mess and an action which is entirely legal and acceptable on one train, will land you with a large fine and potential criminal record for doing so on a different train at the very same station?

Surely that cannot be acceptable to any court?

Surely the basic rule is pretty straightforward these days - if there's an open ticket office or a functioning ticket machine which will sell you the ticket you want by the method you want to pay (ie you can choose cash or card), then you should buy before boarding the train. If there's no way to get your ticket beforehand, then you're allowed to start your journey and get a ticket at the first opportunity (which might in some cases be from someone on the train). The rationale being, presumably, that since ticket checks on board are no longer routine, and since some stations have no barrier or staff checking you when you exit, then the "buy your ticket [if you can] before you start your journey, otherwise you're in breach of the byelaws" rule is necessary in order to deter widespread fare evasion.

At Leeds they have exit ticket stations so that even if there is no conductor on your train, you can buy your ticket for the journey you have just completed, as you exit the station.

The very existence of these ticket stations should flag up the fact that the system you have outlined, doesn't work because of the massive number of commuters. All commuter trains into and out of Leeds at rush hours are packed so completely full it's impossible for anyone to move, half the time the conductor is having to fight their way through just to open the doors, let alone be able to check or issue tickets.

 

[AlbertBeale]

So it's basically a regional and corporate mess and an action which is entirely legal and acceptable on one train, will land you with a large fine and potential criminal record for doing so on a different train at the very same station?

Surely that cannot be acceptable to any court?

I think that formally it's less to do with what train than with the station - if there were no facilities to buy a ticket then no problem. However, it's also true that on some train routes there's the custom of selling tickets on board (maybe because so many stations on the route don't have ticketing facilities), and the ticket-sellers informally extend that service to include people who boarded somewhere that would have sold them their ticket - even though this lulls people into a false sense of security and they come a cropper in the case of another journey from the same station if there's no ticket-seller willing to do that.

At Leeds they have exit ticket stations so that even if there is no conductor on your train, you can buy your ticket for the journey you have just completed, as you exit the station.

The very existence of these ticket stations should flag up the fact that the system you have outlined, doesn't work because of the massive number of commuters. All commuter trains into and out of Leeds at rush hours are packed so completely full it's impossible for anyone to move, half the time the conductor is having to fight their way through just to open the doors, let alone be able to check or issue tickets.

I presume the ticket office inside the gate is precisely for people who came from a station where they couldn't get the ticket they wanted, and then couldn't buy on the train; if they came from a station where they could have got their ticket, then (irrespective of ticket-sellers on the train or not) I guess the ticket office at their destination would be within their rights to not sell a ticket, but to charge a penalty fare or report then for prosecution. If the ticket office does sometimes sell tickets to people who, under the byelaws, should have got their ticket before travelling, then this can lead people astray in the same way that helpful on-board ticket-sellers can - ie people think that because they've got away with it sometimes, they'll always be "let off" and allowed to pay for their ticket retrospectively. But the rule remains - if you're able to buy your ticket before travel, you must - or you're breaching the byelaws.

 

[Skymonster]

That ticket booth at Leeds has become notorious on this forum: revenue staff standing in wait, eager to pounce and issue a penalty fare to those they believe could have bought a ticket before they traveled. I suspect their action is often appropriate but there do seem to be regular instances come up here when it’s claimed they don’t listen to or check [valid] explanations and issue a penalty anyway. Thus leaving the unfortunate who were incorrectly issued with a penalty no choice but to go through the convoluted, some would say even biased, appeals process or in a few cases just pay the penalty anyway to make the problem go away. Anyone now approaching that booth to buy a ticket at the end of their journey would be very well advised to have a rock solid justification for and proof as to why they do not already have a ticket.

 

[pedr]

I think three things happened relatively close together:

Parliament and the government authorised penalty fare schemes in some areas, warning passengers with posters that they must buy tickets before travelling. This introduced the kind of strict liability approach to tickets: until then for a criminal case the company had to prove intent not to pay.

Some technical changes to the Railway Bylaws introduced criminal penalties for the offences relating to tickets, adding another strict liability approach, with much less publicity [I don’t know the details of this, or when exactly it happened]

Train companies installed many more ticket vending machines so there were fewer stations without ticketing facilities. Some of these are very limited facilities, such as one machine on a two-platform station with a very long walk between the platforms.

In many cases these were done without changing the role of the guard/conductor, who continues to have the ability to sell tickets and, in some cases, has a financial incentive to do so. Which means someone doing the same thing on two different days will be sold a ticket on one day and issued a penalty or reported for prosecution the next, depending on who they meet on the train.

These combine to the situation where - perhaps to many people’s surprise - the law as approved by Parliament can act harshly. Courts will apply that without attempting to critique the situation - that’s not the role of the Magistrates’ Courts where these cases are held: Parliament has decided (tacitly) that getting on a train without a valid ticket is a crime at many stations on the network, and if someone does that, the court will convict them if they’re prosecuted. In fact most passengers aren’t prosecuted; they’re threatened with prosecution and pay some money to make it go away. Most prosecutions will be of people who don’t respond to the correspondence.

The counter-argument is that travelling without paying causes significant revenue loss, which effectively increases the general government spending on keeping the railways functioning, and less strict approaches to dealing with ticketless travel would be much less effective. I think replacing the criminal aspect with the possibility of penalty fares issued by post would work and have pretty much the same deterrent effect, but the current system is working, from the point of view of the government and train companies.

 

[Snow1964]

That's likely. Go back far enough in time and it was the norm for tickets to be purchased from a ticket office before even being allowed onto the platform. In the interests of reducing the cost of running British Rail as it then was in the 1960's and later, the paytrain concept was introduced whereby you were expected to buy a ticket from the conductor/guard.

Even before that there were halts and minor stations without ticket offices, on some lines they could sell you tickets (and guards carried carbon copy blank ticket pads which they would write out tickets, even when I was child in 1970s the southern region used these in evening when ticket offices were closed, later they gained portable ticket machines, which were from memory called portis). Nowadays there is much smaller smartphone style machine, but for reasons that aren't clear these aren't always carried even when sole TVM isn't working, which causes problems.

The alternative is that at main or junction station, the ticket office would be open, and there were additional windows on the platform side of the barriers marked excess fares. (The same rule still applies, if no ticket office open, or machine, or guard selling tickets gets to you, but at first opportunity which was excess fare window). However the term Excess Fare seems to have gone and now called something else (can't remember what they are called now).

To add to the confusion, in some areas, buying tickets online has become the norm, but sometimes when train is minute or two late, they won't sell tickets because it assumes trying to buy after boarding (even if customer is still on platform), so people end up buying ticket for following train which causes different problem.

Also rather inconsistent penalties between buying from guard after boarding because no machine, and buying online after boarding because no machine, strangely seem to be better off waiting for guard than attempting to buy online after boarding because the No machine rule is easier to explain.

 

[Hadders]

The problem with allowing people to buy on board is you very quickly get a situation where people only buy a ticket 'when challenged'. Often it's not possible for guards to get through a busy train, especially one that has frequent calls.

I don't have a problem with the requirement to purchase a ticket before boarding the train where facilities exist to do so at the station where you start your journey. There has been a big roll out of ticket machines across the network in recent years, the number of stations with no ticket facilities is small these days.

There do need to be safeguards in place to protect passengers where:

- ticket machines don't accept cash (in many areas passengers are supposed to obtain a 'Promise to Pay' voucher from the ticket machine)
- ticket machines are not working
- ticket machines don't sell the ticket a passenger wants
- there is no ticket machine at the station

In theory these safeguards do exist, but as every with things on the railway there can be inconsistencies with how these things are applied. My view is that the railway needs to do a better job at publicising the rules and training staff.

 

[Snow1964]

There has been a big roll out of ticket machines across the network in recent years, the number of stations with no ticket facilities is small these days.

Gosh I must be out of date, I thought it was over 500 small or tiny stations without any machine and about another 500 with just a single machine (even if it has multiple entrances)

Admittedly I live in small town, but 2 of 4 (50%) of my nearest stations do not have any ticket machines.

 

[Haywain]

I'd have thought that it's within living memory for most of us that purchasing a ticket from the conductor was a universal thing

It has never been a thing on my local line in the south-east in the last 60 years. And I think that will apply to most routes in the south-east.

 

[Thames99]

Isn't the attitude of the passenger an important aspect of this and perhaps an explanation of the different experiences people have had? A passenger who gets on a train and immediately finds the conductor to buy a ticket is likely to get a better reaction than someone who just sits down. The latter raises suspicion that they are trying to get away without paying and perhaps raises their chances of getting a penalty fare.

My partner recently travelled from Bath to Paddington late in the evening. She tried to buy a ticket at more than one machine and didn't succeed, the barriers were open and no staff seemed to be around. The machines all had abandoned efforts at buying tickets on the screens, so I think they could well have been at fault rather than her.

Trains are hourly at that time and one was due, so she went on the platform and got on to find the conductor. He sold her a ticket with a railcard discount without any quibbles. Maybe her innocent appearance and being of a certain age helped!

 

[MarlowDonkey]

Isn't the attitude of the passenger an important aspect of this and perhaps an explanation of the different experiences people have had? A passenger who gets on a train and immediately finds the conductor to buy a ticket is likely to get a better reaction than someone who just sits down.

There do however seem to be cases where someone has boarded a train, bought a ticket online and is then accused of buying a ticket after the train departed.

 

[Haywain]

There do however seem to be cases where someone has boarded a train, bought a ticket online and is then accused of buying a ticket after the train departed.

Because that's an offence.

 

[Caractacus]

I think that formally it's less to do with what train than with the station - if there were no facilities to buy a ticket then no problem. However, it's also true that on some train routes there's the custom of selling tickets on board (maybe because so many stations on the route don't have ticketing facilities), and the ticket-sellers informally extend that service to include people who boarded somewhere that would have sold them their ticket - even though this lulls people into a false sense of security and they come a cropper in the case of another journey from the same station if there's no ticket-seller willing to do that.



I presume the ticket office inside the gate is precisely for people who came from a station where they couldn't get the ticket they wanted, and then couldn't buy on the train; if they came from a station where they could have got their ticket, then (irrespective of ticket-sellers on the train or not) I guess the ticket office at their destination would be within their rights to not sell a ticket, but to charge a penalty fare or report then for prosecution. If the ticket office does sometimes sell tickets to people who, under the byelaws, should have got their ticket before travelling, then this can lead people astray in the same way that helpful on-board ticket-sellers can - ie people think that because they've got away with it sometimes, they'll always be "let off" and allowed to pay for their ticket retrospectively. But the rule remains - if you're able to buy your ticket before travel, you must - or you're breaching the byelaws.

If you take a station like Headingley - a major commuter village for Leeds. Headingley is a bare bones station, but it does have ticket machines. iirc something like two per platform. However, at morning rush hour, Headingley literally has hundreds of commuters waiting to pack on to a two or three carriage coach. Theoretically the byelaw assumes that all of those commuters are able to buy a ticket before travel, on the day. Practically speaking and ignoring passes, phone tickets and year long tickets and the like, it is literally impossible for a hundred or two hundred commuters to line up in front of two ticket machines in a rush hour. The only way to process that number of people in that amount of time, is at the hub station. The setup at Leeds is good enough to recognise that, but in doing so, is it not proof that the byelaws are not fit for all purposes at all times when the station itself encourages bypassing them, or that people are being set up to commit break laws they had no intention of breaking?

Theoretically speaking, of course.

 

[akm]

"ignoring passes, phone tickets and year long tickets" for "hundreds of commuters" is hardly "practically speaking"!

 

[Caractacus]

"ignoring passes, phone tickets and year long tickets" for "hundreds of commuters" is hardly "practically speaking"!

Sure, except I travelled that route myself for many years and watched hundreds of commuters every day lining up at the hub platform ticket office having come from Headingley or Burley Park, I know firsthand that practically speaking, passes, phone tickets and year long tickets did not equal zero queues, at least at the time I was making that commute which admittedly is quite some time ago now. Whereas the next stop outbound, Horsforth, was my stop, and though busy it generally had an open ticket office and I saw fewer commuters from there buying tickets at Leeds.

 

[BanburyBlue]

I think three things happened relatively close together:

Parliament and the government authorised penalty fare schemes in some areas, warning passengers with posters that they must buy tickets before travelling. This introduced the kind of strict liability approach to tickets: until then for a criminal case the company had to prove intent not to pay.

Some technical changes to the Railway Bylaws introduced criminal penalties for the offences relating to tickets, adding another strict liability approach, with much less publicity [I don’t know the details of this, or when exactly it happened]

Train companies installed many more ticket vending machines so there were fewer stations without ticketing facilities. Some of these are very limited facilities, such as one machine on a two-platform station with a very long walk between the platforms.

In many cases these were done without changing the role of the guard/conductor, who continues to have the ability to sell tickets and, in some cases, has a financial incentive to do so. Which means someone doing the same thing on two different days will be sold a ticket on one day and issued a penalty or reported for prosecution the next, depending on who they meet on the train.

These combine to the situation where - perhaps to many people’s surprise - the law as approved by Parliament can act harshly. Courts will apply that without attempting to critique the situation - that’s not the role of the Magistrates’ Courts where these cases are held: Parliament has decided (tacitly) that getting on a train without a valid ticket is a crime at many stations on the network, and if someone does that, the court will convict them if they’re prosecuted. In fact most passengers aren’t prosecuted; they’re threatened with prosecution and pay some money to make it go away. Most prosecutions will be of people who don’t respond to the correspondence.

The counter-argument is that travelling without paying causes significant revenue loss, which effectively increases the general government spending on keeping the railways functioning, and less strict approaches to dealing with ticketless travel would be much less effective. I think replacing the criminal aspect with the possibility of penalty fares issued by post would work and have pretty much the same deterrent effect, but the current system is working, from the point of view of the government and train companies.

I think this bit is the crux of it "In many cases these were done without changing the role of the guard/conductor, who continues to have the ability to sell tickets and, in some cases, has a financial incentive to do so. Which means someone doing the same thing on two different days will be sold a ticket on one day and issued a penalty or reported for prosecution the next, depending on who they meet on the train". If the rule is you must have a ticket before you get on board, where there are facilities to buy a ticket at the station, then how is it right for the guard/conductor to sell you a ticket on board? Surely this should always/mostly be a penalty fare? Otherwise, it leads to mass confusion by members of the public who get on board day 1 and buy a ticket on board with no issue, and on day 2 get a penalty fare/reported for prosecution.

 

[Haywain]

Sure, except I travelled that route myself for many years and watched hundreds of commuters every day lining up at the hub platform ticket office having come from Headingley or Burley Park, I know firsthand that practically speaking, passes, phone tickets and year long tickets did not equal zero queues, at least at the time I was making that commute which admittedly is quite some time ago now. Whereas the next stop outbound, Horsforth, was my stop, and though busy it generally had an open ticket office and I saw fewer commuters from there buying tickets at Leeds.

That ticket office caters for people from all over West and North Yorkshire, not just Headingley and Burley Park.

 

[starlight73]

How is it right for the guard/conductor to sell you a ticket on board? Surely this should always/mostly be a penalty fare?

Is it that (some?) guards can’t issue penalty fares?

 

[AlterEgo]

Is it that (some?) guards can’t issue penalty fares?

Hardly any guards are authorised collectors of Penalty Fares.

 

[Benjwri]

My partner recently travelled from Bath to Paddington late in the evening. She tried to buy a ticket at more than one machine and didn't succeed, the barriers were open and no staff seemed to be around. The machines all had abandoned efforts at buying tickets on the screens, so I think they could well have been at fault rather than her.

The GWR ticket machines are an absolute nightmare to use, I’m not surprised she had difficulty. It’s a shame their replacements met their unfortunate fate. If ever needed in future there will always be at least one member of staff at Bath for dispatch, if there aren’t any traisn at the time probably in the office on the London bound platform.

got on to find the conductor. He sold her a ticket with a railcard discount without any quibbles. Maybe her innocent appearance and being of a certain age helped!

GWR are usually good in these situations, especially if she found the conductor rather than waiting for them they are almost always fine with it.

 

[Krokodil]

Also rather inconsistent penalties between buying from guard after boarding because no machine, and buying online after boarding because no machine, strangely seem to be better off waiting for guard than attempting to buy online after boarding because the No machine rule is easier to explain.

If you wanted to buy a physical ticket but there was no working machine which accepted your preferred method of payment then of course you can buy when the opportunity does present.

If however you board a train and say "oh I'll just buy online" when the guard asks for your ticket then you already had the opportunity to buy before you boarded as that phone was already in your bag before you got on.

 

[The exile]

So it's basically a regional and corporate mess and an action which is entirely legal and acceptable on one train, will land you with a large fine and potential criminal record for doing so on a different train at the very same station?

Surely that cannot be acceptable to any court?

Provided the requisite notification has been given (signage etc), then yes it will. The fact that you sometimes get away with something doesn’t make the “something” any less wrong.

 

[Haywain]

Provided the requisite notification has been given (signage etc), then yes it will.

Signage is required for Penalty Fares to be issued correctly, but not for offences to be prosecuted under the railway byelaws or Regulation of Railways Act.

 

[Taunton]

Meanwhile, if you take an SWR inner suburban train, the Guard wouldn't be able to sell you a ticket and wouldn't carry out a ticket check; they are non-commercial. If a ticket inspector asked to see your ticket, then again the best you could hope for is a Penalty Fare. This has been the case for about 30 years.

When I got my only ride in one of the new SWR 701s, there was a very thorough ticket check by the guard, including asking everyone with cards where they were travelling to.

 

[lachlan]

In Scotland you can buy on board - guards will even ask if anyone needs a ticket. And at some stations with barriers you can even buy a ticket at the destination station (not sure if this is recommended or not).

 

[yorkie]

When I got my only ride in one of the new SWR 701s, there was a very thorough ticket check by the guard, including asking everyone with cards where they were travelling to.

Must have been an outer suburban Guard; inner suburban Guards are non commercial

So it's basically a regional and corporate mess and an action which is entirely legal and acceptable on one train, will land you with a large fine and potential criminal record for doing so on a different train at the very same station?

Surely that cannot be acceptable to any court?

If you walk past ticket issuing facilities, when there is no signage or statement saying you can buy on board, I don't think they defence would work

At Leeds they have exit ticket stations so that even if there is no conductor on your train, you can buy your ticket for the journey you have just completed, as you exit the station.

You risk being charged a PF or prosecution if there was a facility at your origin station

The very existence of these ticket stations should flag up the fact that the system you have outlined, doesn't work because of the massive number of commuters. All commuter trains into and out of Leeds at rush hours are packed so completely full it's impossible for anyone to move, half the time the conductor is having to fight their way through just to open the doors, let alone be able to check or issue tickets.

The excess fares booth is for people who were unable to buy a ticket. Not for people who chose not to.

If you take a station like Headingley - a major commuter village for Leeds. Headingley is a bare bones station, but it does have ticket machines. iirc something like two per platform. However, at morning rush hour, Headingley literally has hundreds of commuters waiting to pack on to a two or three carriage coach. Theoretically the byelaw assumes that all of those commuters are able to buy a ticket before travel, on the day. Practically speaking and ignoring passes, phone tickets and year long tickets and the like, it is literally impossible for a hundred or two hundred commuters to line up in front of two ticket machines in a rush hour. The only way to process that number of people in that amount of time, is at the hub station. The setup at Leeds is good enough to recognise that, but in doing so, is it not proof that the byelaws are not fit for all purposes at all times when the station itself encourages bypassing them, or that people are being set up to commit break laws they had no intention of breaking?

Theoretically speaking, of course.

You can't ignore the fact that most people boarding at Headingley will have pte-putchased e-tickets or Season tickets.

Hardly anyone buys from TVMs in Northern land these days; it's nearly all e-tickets.

However there is no requirement to buy online of course, and if anyone is genuinely unable to use the machines, or the machines won't issue the required ticket(s) or accept the desired payment method, then that's what the excess booth is for, and in such situations people should not be penalised .

In Scotland you can buy on board - guards will even ask if anyone needs a ticket. And at some stations with barriers you can even buy a ticket at the destination station (not sure if this is recommended or not).

You are still supposed to buy before boarding if there is a facility to do so.

It is a legal requirement, including in Scotland.

However Guards and TTIs won't penalise people if they choose not to (other than perhaps charging the Anytime fare and/or declining Railcard discounts) due to the difficulty in prosecuting such offences in Scotland.

This leads to the situation where on DOO trains in the a Glasgow suburban area, almost every train has a very proactive TTI constantly selling tickets. However on SWR trains can have a second person who is a non commercial Guard but has absolutely no involvement in tickets whatsoever, and if the customer is checked by an RPI, the book gets thrown at them. However such checks are extremely rare in my experience of SWR inner suburban services.

 

[Ben Rhydding]

There is only one ticket machine at Headingley which is on the Leeds bound platform. There is no machine on the Harrogate side. Most passengers enter on the Harrogate side and, if bound for Harrogate, have to cross the line twice to use the machine.