When using an advance ticket, do you have to use it EXACTLY as specified....

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by 4SRKT, 31 Aug 2010.

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  1. 4SRKT

    4SRKT Established Member

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    ....even if I want to get on at a later station?

    Specific example:

    I want to travel from Prestatyn to Shipley, which is £16 advance single. However, I'm unsure of the exact arrangements on the day and may want to board at Flint instead. However, there's no advance available from Flint to Shipley, only an anytime single costing £££££ more than the Prestatyn > Shipley advance.

    Can I just book the advance and turn up at Flint if that's the way it works out on the day?
     
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  3. Solent&Wessex

    Solent&Wessex Established Member

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    On paper, no you can't. In reality it shouldn't be a problem. The actual rules say that you are not allowed to start, break or resume, or end your journey at any other station unless to change trains on the travel itinery. But in practice I don't think it is a general problem starting a short distance down the line. Are there any advance fares from Chester? You could buy advance Chester to Shipley and then just buy a single from whichever station you start at to get you to Chester. This may cost very slightly more, but does give that extra security that there definately won't be a problem.

     
  4. 323235

    323235 Established Member

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    Officially You cannot start/break/end your journey at any intermediate station on an Advance ticket, except as advised by your booked itinary i.e. to change train.
     
  5. Lampshade

    Lampshade Established Member

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    Hmm, advance fares seem to stop at Prestatyn.
     
  6. 4SRKT

    4SRKT Established Member

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    I suppose I could get on at Flint, sneak straight into the toilet, only to emerge as the train pulls out, looking ill and like I've been in there for the last, oh, 13 minutes or so.......

    ;)
     
  7. Lampshade

    Lampshade Established Member

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    There's always the possibility of a station block at Flint.
     
  8. 4SRKT

    4SRKT Established Member

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    Given my earlier suggestion, there could be a danger of a toilet block at Flint....
     
  9. Lampshade

    Lampshade Established Member

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    Nooo, I meant they may have RPIs covering the station and would stop you boarding there, unlikely though.
     
  10. 4SRKT

    4SRKT Established Member

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    I realise that! I was being, well, a bit crude....
     
  11. MikeWh

    MikeWh Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

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    You could buy a single to the next station to get through the block, then resort to plan toilet.;)
     
  12. Lampshade

    Lampshade Established Member

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    Aha, good ideas all round.
     
  13. 4SRKT

    4SRKT Established Member

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    I've often heard of people hiding in the toilet to avoid paying, but this is the first time I've ever imagined hiding in there in order to make a shorter journey than the one I've paid for. The indignities that the modern ticketing system forces on law-abiding travellers!

    :|
     
  14. RJ

    RJ Established Member

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    The conditions of the discounted ticket are clearly stipulated prior to the point of purchase. If you want more flexibility then you have to buy the appropriate ticket, end of.
     
  15. tony_mac

    tony_mac Established Member

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    this often (usually?) is not true.
    So I should sit in the station and wait for 90 minutes for the next connection instead of walking for 15 minutes to my destination?

    I don't think that anybody (else) would think that is reasonable!
     
  16. RJ

    RJ Established Member

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    Let's stick to the subject in hand. I find it hard to believe that when purchasing an advance ticket online that the restriction was not clearly stated.

    If you'd rather do that then buy an appropriate ticket, that's your perogative.
     
  17. Pumbaa

    Pumbaa Established Member

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    It shouldn't be a problem. I often start/end short on AP tickets, and have never had an issue. If TIs/Guards recognise what I've done (less than half of the time), they usually chuckle and agree what a farce the system is, or in one case inform me that I should be made to purchase the full fare from where I boarded to my destination, but he wasn't going to do that as he had a hangover and couldn't face anything completely unnecessary.
     
  18. MikeWh

    MikeWh Established Member Senior Fares Advisor

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    As has been mentioned, the rules say you must travel on the exact train for the whole duration with an advance ticket. You don't give much info as to why you don't know whether you'll be at Flint or Prestatyn on the day. Is it really that there are no advances from Flint so you want to use the cheap fare from Prestatyn instead? If this is the case, is it out of the question to arrive at Flint an hour earlier and travel back to Prestatyn? It sounds mad, but would certainly be legal.

    You might well be ok. If Flint has no barriers and the guard hasn't checked tickets between Prestatyn and Flint then it'll be ok. But you won't know all this for sure.

    Would you buy a ticket with a 90 minute wait for a leg of the journey you could finish on foot in 15 minutes? If a delay or cancellation meant that a connection was missed then you would undoubtedly be allowed to leave because the rail industry hadn't kept to it's side of the contract.
     
  19. tony_mac

    tony_mac Established Member

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    Why don't you actually try a few different websites and see? And by clearly stated, I mean something that you are directed to read, with a link, or have to read to buy a ticket.

    IF the incoming train is late and misses the connection, then according to the 'terms and conditions' I have to sit there and wait. But then I can claim a full refund on my ticket, so it's not exactly good for the railway either.

    I have sometimes bought a ticket to my local station, and if I miss the first connection, or it is delayed, or it is too full, or if it is raining, then I leave and get the bus the rest of the way.
    I don't see that harms the railway in any way, but obviously I should be grabbed at the station exit and charged for a new ticket. (if you are incapable of applying common sense).
     
  20. 4SRKT

    4SRKT Established Member

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    Basically I'll be in North Wales, travelling about a bit with a friend by car, but am not sure whether I'll end up nearer Flint or Prestatyn. An advance would be appropriate since the train I would use is the last train with a connection at Leeds into a Skipton line train (19:18 off Prestatyn, 19:31 Flint). I thought, sensibly enough, that buying a Prestatyn > Shipley ticket would cover both eventualities, but clearly although the rules are 'clearly stipulated' they appear to be insane and have been thought up by someone with a diseased brain.

    I had a similar problem with travelling to and from Wrexham recently with some greedy git trying to charge me over £28. I gave a hollow laugh at the very idea of this and just drove instead. Sounds like I'll do the same again, and I reckon most normals would also do the same. Meanwhile the 175 on the 18:44 Llandudno > Manchester Airport rattles along saving fuel by having a few additional empty seats.
     
    Last edited: 1 Sep 2010
  21. RJ

    RJ Established Member

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    So the advance ticket is not suitable for your requirements, why buy it? You're going on like it's impossible to purchase a standard ticket which gives you more flexibility. The problem does not lie with the strict T&Cs of the Advance, it's with you not wanting to pay for an appropriate ticket. I've used Advance tickets countless times and there's nothing wrong with them if you actually know what your travelling plans will be.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Like I said I've used advance tickets numerous times without a problem. The problem is people here attempting to exploit loopholes that don't actually exist then complaining about how stupid the system is.

     
  22. 4SRKT

    4SRKT Established Member

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    Bully for you; so have I used advance tickets many times without issue. I won't use it this time because it is stupid and irrational that a ticket from Flint costs more than a ticket from Prestatyn. I will drive instead. Great; that's £16 less for ATW, but that's fine by you because that's 'the rules' which are apparantly beyond question. Simply understanding a bad system it doesn't change its stupidity, and it's perfectly reasonable on a forum to accept rules at the same time as pointing out their stupidity.

    You also need to think very carefully before you go around libelling people by accusing them of dishonesty.
     
    Last edited: 1 Sep 2010
  23. bignosemac

    bignosemac Established Member

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    And bully for you! Yet another example of someone cutting off there nose to spite their face. Good luck getting from North Wales to Shipley for £16 using the car.
     
  24. 4SRKT

    4SRKT Established Member

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    Well, it isn't going to be £16 is it, because I can't use the £16 ticket from Flint. If I could I wouldn't drive. As it is, I'll spend a lot less in the car than the standard anytime single. In any case in my company car at 11p per mile, the 91 miles from Flint to Shipley will cost almost exactly £10 in diesel, and take only slightly more than half the time.

    So in fact I'm being charitable to ATW by being willing to pay as much as £16, which I would gladly do as I prefer to travel by train. However I don't have 'mug' written across my forehead, and I will make the rational choice in this case.

    Do try to keep up, there's a good chap, and if you can't manage it, don't post.
     
  25. yorksrob

    yorksrob Veteran Member

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    The stipulation that passengers are not allowed to join or leave a journey at a later or earlier stop on a journey for which the passenger has already paid is clearly nonsense and the railway does itself no favours in persisting with it. Ultimately it is without common sense because buying a ticket and not taking up part of the journey is no different from buying a ticket and not taking up any part of the journey. The railway has still got it's money for that journey.
     
  26. bignosemac

    bignosemac Established Member

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    Okay, I don't know who pays all the ancilliary costs with your car so it may only be £10 out of your pocket, but the real cost of the trip is still greater than even the Anytime Single from Prestatyn to Shipley, before even considering the mutlitude split ticket opportunities.

    Oh and I was keeping up, but I wasn't ahead of you because I ain't bleedin' psychic - no idea you had a company car which could make the overall cost to you cheaper than the rail fare.
     
  27. 4SRKT

    4SRKT Established Member

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    No fair enough, I was a bit out of order. Sorry :)

    Splitting at Huddersfield will make it a bit cheaper, but certainly not less than £16.
     
  28. RJ

    RJ Established Member

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    This thread is essentially a thinly veiled grievance at the price of a standard ticket is it not? Rather pointless.
     
    Last edited: 1 Sep 2010
  29. 4SRKT

    4SRKT Established Member

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    Not really. It was merely asking a simple question if a certain ticket type from Prestatyn to Shipley (or anywhere else) could be used to start at Flint, something I genuinely did not know the answer to. Apparently it's not allowed, so I won't use it. I won't pay the larcenous price for the single, so I'll drive. It's a shame, but ultimately inevitable and I'm sure I can't be the only person who's come to this simple arithmetic conclusion.

    I suppose all threads started by you are lofty and erudite and only deal with matters of the greatest and gravest significance?
     
  30. furryfeet

    furryfeet Member

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    it neatly exposes what the railways are up against - i.e. far cheaper to travel by a company car.

    By persisting with these silly rules, as well as the high prices for walk on fares, then the railways are never going to persuade people out of their company cars and on to public transport.
     
  31. 142094

    142094 Established Member

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    There may be the case for people moving to public transport in the next few ways not due to the attractiveness of trains/buses etc but due to the price of running a car going even higher. I don't see petrol prices going below the £1 mark ever again and if plans for charging people to park at work are implemented we might see higher demand for public transport.
     
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