Where are the 377/3s

[Minstral25]

Just realised haven't seen any at London Bridge for ages (probably since early summer) or while travelling down to Redhill. The 17:57 LB to Brighton used to be 4x 377/3 every night but is now 3x377/4

I thought the 313's had taken over on Coastway. No sign of them at Selhurst or on South London locals?

So where have they all gone - 28 missing trains?

 

[Fincra5]

Well from my commutes to london they appear to be all over the place. I've seen a few at Lovers Walk, a couple get paired on BTN-VIC slows (not sure what time) and some do the London to Horsham services.

 

[swt_passenger]

313s haven't taken over on the West coastway yet to any great extent. Possibly a good half of them are still being refurbed repainted etc. I've heard more longer distance west coastway rolling stock changes happen with the next timetable change, but not all.

Was on a 377/3 yesterday on a Southampton - Brighton, they don't seem to be diagrammed any different to the last couple of years.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I saw a 12 car 377/3 set this morning on an up "Belle" diagram through Balham. Seen from a slow line working it was overtaking...

 

[Minstral25]

Cool thanks guys

So they are basically on the West Coastway and VIC - BTN services, which is probably why I don't see them any more as they used to run quite a few LBG services. Not passed one at ECR but that's probably just timing of my trains.

Must say never seen them on any Horsham to London via Gatwick service - they seem to be the domain of 4 car on slows and 8 car on fast trains but guess they must be on the via Dorking Service.

 

[paul1609]

Still out in force on the coastway west. to date Ive only seen a 313 at Littlehampton on the 07.22 to Brighton.
The morning peak Southampton/ Bognor to London Bridge via Horsham is normally 4 x 377/3s 1 from Southampton, 3 from Bognor.
The new timetable seems to indicate Southern dont really know what they are doing with the 313s. Brighton to Southampton is shown as 313 in one direction and 377/3 in the other.
Despite all the assurances to the contrary a lot of Brighton- Portsmouth semi fasts are going to be 313s it appears the RMT were right and Southern were just lying to commuter groups.

 

[387star]

The clue is in the branding- Chichester is clearly stated as one of the stopping places with the addition of the cathedral for good measure!

I did not expect them to operate to Southampton though!!

I anticipate Bognor-Littlehampton, Littlehampton to Brighton, West Worthing to Brighton and Southsea-Littlehampton will be 313s but unsure as to the rest.

A 377 could still cover from time to time though!

I'm all for it- more traction interest and I nver use toilets on trains lol

btw are they indicating on the timetable the traction? Do SWT do the same to indicate 444 or 450?

 

[ushawk]

All Southern do with indicating what train it is is adding onto the info boards "Sorry, no toilet facilities" and "This train is formed with class 313 coaches", which is helpful if you have no time to use a toilet.

EDIT - on the new timetables it has a triangle at the top showing theres no toilets.

 

[387star]

Thanks. Do we know which 377s will move over to London? I have heard some will be reformed in to 5 coaches to make 10 car trains. I preume 377/4s will remain on the London services with 377/1 and 377/3 more likely to head to inner suburban trains?

I only think this because originally these trains wiht the older interiors were to be refurbished to make them higher capacity although I heard this plan is now dropped...

 

[Fincra5]

Well the original plan was not to reform any trains but to just run them as 4+3+3. The higher capacity plan has also (as it stands) been dropped, thus removing the need to have some out of service.

 

[MCR247]

But with 4+3+3 Southern would really have to improve their diagramming skills

 

[Ricardo]

The clue is in the branding- Chichester is clearly stated as one of the stopping places with the addition of the cathedral for good measure!

I did not expect them to operate to Southampton though!!

I anticipate Bognor-Littlehampton, Littlehampton to Brighton, West Worthing to Brighton and Southsea-Littlehampton will be 313s but unsure as to the rest.

A 377 could still cover from time to time though!

I'm all for it- more traction interest and I nver use toilets on trains lol

btw are they indicating on the timetable the traction? Do SWT do the same to indicate 444 or 450?

This is as far as I'm aware correct. Southern initially had a single Southampton-Brighton service (leaving at antisocial o'clock in the morning) planned for a 313 in the December timetable, on the basis that this train essentially had no through passengers along the entire route. Apparently through re-diagramming etc they now intend to operate this service with a 377, meaning the Southampton-Cosham line should be a 313-free zone. 313s are however still listed as agreed equipment which can be used on Soton-Brighton in case of times of disruption, etc.

Most routes planned for 313 operation are the shorter stopping services, although with apparently about 50% of Southern's departures out of Portsmouth planned for 313 operation they will turn up on many Portsmouth-Brighton services.

Traction type is not indicated on the timetables. I suspect that many services will be timed so that a 313 or a 377 could be used interchangeably if needed. As far as the lack of toilets go, well, it is certainly a downgrade but to be fair to Southern, a lot of the traffic on the coastway route is over shorter distances. I'd excpect the average passenger journey on the Coastway really is under 30 minutes.

A bigger concern is reliability and the effect 313s will have on this. Southern's coastway service punctuality is atrocious (they have averaged just 68% in the last month, for example, and 84% over the last year) and is just about the worst performing service group in the entire south of england.

Reliability is also poor, and the reliability stats mask the regular axing of scheduled stops and terminating short that goes on to try to recover the service.

I'm not confident that this situation will improve once 30-year old trains which were neglected by their previous operators start seeing widespread use!

 

[acg5324]

There is an all day 2 x 3/77 working out of London Bridge M-F and another 6 car working that is peak time only.

Services include:-
0600 LBG to Wimbledon
0630 LBG to Wimbledon
0733, 0903, 1033, LBG to Beckenham Jct
1418, 1548, 1718, LBG to West Croydon

12 car 4 x 3/377 workings include
0657 Bognor to LBG
1742 and 1812 LBG to Littlehampton

 

[Class377/5]

The 0036 Caterham is normally a 377/3 x2

 

[ushawk]

The new Southern timetables say whether or not toilets are onboard with a triangle, one can assume that the ones without toilets are most probably 313's

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Must say never seen them on any Horsham to London via Gatwick service - they seem to be the domain of 4 car on slows and 8 car on fast trains but guess they must be on the via Dorking Service.

I am aware of one 6 car diagram via Dorking, but the vast majority of Victoria - Dorking - Horsham services are operated with 4 or 8 car 377/1, 377/2, 377/4 and 455s.

 

[thefab444]

Reliability is also poor, and the reliability stats mask the regular axing of scheduled stops and terminating short that goes on to try to recover the service

Agreed - a shockingly large number of Southern services to Southampton get turned back at Fareham or Havant.

 

[Southern]

1619 Victoria to Horsham via Gatwick was 2x377/3, returning via Dorking at 1734. There was also another working from Victoria to Epsom via Mitcham, again in the evening peak.

 

[Minstral25]

Yep the 377s do seem more visible with the new timetable.

The 18:12 LBG to Littlehampton is 4x377, quite a few of the West Croydon trains and the 19:03 LBG to Horsham stopper via Redhill is supposed to be 2x377 but the second has failed to turn out twice this week resulting in a very packed train.

Went through LBG terminal side last week at around 23:20 on the way back from the O2 and noticed not one 377 in the station - All Southern Services were in the hands of 455 and 456's and the Thameslink services using 319's. Didn't see a 377 until we got to East Croydon and the Victoria services - Was that a fluke or deliberate.

 

[387star]

I was on a 377/1 with the funny interior (3+2 and 2+2 seating combination in all coaches)... hardly ever ride one of these to Portsmouth!

Om one of the blue seats the upholstery had been repaired with a Southern example so I reckon they will have the southern colours retrofitted at some point

 

[Class377/5]

Yep the 377s do seem more visible with the new timetable.

The 18:12 LBG to Littlehampton is 4x377, quite a few of the West Croydon trains and the 19:03 LBG to Horsham stopper via Redhill is supposed to be 2x377 but the second has failed to turn out twice this week resulting in a very packed train.

Went through LBG terminal side last week at around 23:20 on the way back from the O2 and noticed not one 377 in the station - All Southern Services were in the hands of 455 and 456's and the Thameslink services using 319's. Didn't see a 377 until we got to East Croydon and the Victoria services - Was that a fluke or deliberate.

The old timetable there was a time from about 2300 until 2340 without any Electrostars for Southern. As for FCC, only time you'll see a 377/5 in Lower Platforms is on a sunday or somethings wrong with the Core.