Which were the largest settlements in Great Britain never to have had a station on the national rail network?

[class26]

But Wisbech is OT for this thread because I believe it previously had a station

I mentioned Ullapool in an earlier post. Did the railway ever serve that port?

The proposal was for a line to run from Garve on the Kyle line to Ullapool but it, like several other proposals to reach the Atlantic coast didn`t happen

 

[McRhu]

There was a proposal for rails to Ullapool at at about the same time as Dingwall - Kyle. Can't remember details off hand but have seen drawings of that and other coeval schemes in which lines west coast settlements were served by individual lines running from the east.

 

[Inversnecky]

Fails the definition of Great Britain.

That would be news to them!

‘Great Britain’ comprises England, Wales and Scotland, whether mainland or islands.

 

[A0wen]

Rothwell, Northamptonshire. Unlike its Yorkshire namesake, it looks like no one tried a passenger service on its railway.

Interesting suggestion, but a sub 8k population means there are some others ahead of it. There was a line which ran east from Kettering to Huntingdon, but interestingly not one which headed west towards Rugby.

 

[matchmaker]

I see that Glenrothes with Thornton station has been mentioned. Rather disingenuous naming as it is nearly 4 miles from Glenrothes!

 

[D6130]

Yes indeed......."Thornton for Glenrothes" would have been a more accurate name - but I suspect that local politics were involved. I believe that Kirkcaldy station is actually closer to many areas of Glenrothes new town.

 

[ashkeba]

Interesting suggestion, but a sub 8k population means there are some others ahead of it. There was a line which ran east from Kettering to Huntingdon, but interestingly not one which headed west towards Rugby.

Which settlements from Railway Mania not new towns are ahead of it?

It is bigger than 7k Shaftesbury which keeps being posted.

 

[A0wen]

Which settlements from Railway Mania not new towns are ahead of it?

It is bigger than 7k Shaftesbury which keeps being posted.

Stotfold in Beds which I mentioned in post #47.

 

[ashkeba]

Stotfold in Beds which I mentioned in post #47.

Yes, it seems to be, if by only 300 people on 2019 estimates. I wonder what 2021 census will find. And Stotfold is only 2 miles from Arlesey station, while Rothwell is 4-5 from Kettering.

And one is not "some".

 

[kieron]

To make things a bit simpler, I've put populations for some of the places mentioned so far in a table below. The Scottish populations are all taken from the spreadsheet of 2012 populations here. The English and Welsh ones are from 2011 figures here. For these, I've used the "built up area" or "subdivision" where they exist.

Name	Population	Source	Notes
West Bridgford	45509	link	Area contains Edwalton station
Canvey Island	38170	link	offshore
Thamesmead	31824	link 1 2	Population of "Thamesmead" wards.
New Addington	22280	link	Has Tramlink
Peacehaven	18579	link
Houghton-le-Spring	13863	link	Area includes Newbottle and Burnside
Biggin Hill	12233		See #72
Waterlooville	9549	link	Population of Waterloo ward
Dunoon	9540
Cambourne	8186	link
Rothwell	7694	link
Shaftesbury	7314	link
Stornoway	7500		offshore
Torpoint	7717	link
Dartmouth	5610	link
Penrhyn Bay	4432	link	Had a tramway
Beaminster	2957	link
Lyndhurst	2347	link
Ullapool	1510
Beaumaris	1370	link	offshore

I've added Penrhyn Bay, as it's a place in Wales which has only been served by trams, and (unlike Rhos-on-Sea) isn't adjacent to another town.
I've also added Peacehaven, which I understand didn't really get going until buses were a viable option.

Abbey Wood, Belvedere and Plumstead stations are just outside the boundaries of the two "Thamesmead" wards.

On another note...

St Asaph did have a station, although it closed long before the town became a city.

The station also opened long after St. Asaph became a city.

 

[30907]

To make things a bit simpler, I've put populations for some of the places mentioned so far in a table below. The Scottish populations are all taken from the spreadsheet of 2012 populations here. The English and Welsh ones are from 2011 figures here. For these, I've used the "built up area" or "subdivision" where they exist.

Name	Population	Source	Notes
Biggin Hill	2282	link

Unfortunately, you've selected the small part of Biggin Hill (with Tatsfield) in Surrey. The part within the London Borough of Bromley is 9,951 from the same source - so the total is approximately 12k. Link

 

[kieron]

Yes, sorry; I was going by the name rather than trying to go in depth with anything. The ONS has statistics for smaller areas within London, but they have names like Bromley 039D.

Biggin Hill appears to include:
Bromley 039A (1273 people)
Bromley 039B (1323)
Bromley 039C (1400)
Bromley 039D (1587)
Bromley 039E (1462)
Bromley 042A (1358)
Bromley 042D (1548)
Tatsfield (2282)

Total: 12233

Bromley 042C includes part of Biggin Hill, but it also includes Cudham and part of Berry's Green. As I don't know how much is in each, I've ignored it.

 

[daodao]

Waterlooville

Was once served by the Portsdown and Horndean Light Railway from 1903-1935; it was a rural electric tramway.

May I add Painswick, once an important wool town with a grandiose church. It declined in the 19th century as it was not economically feasible to build a railway up to it - it is sited on the western edge of the Cotwolds.

 

[ashkeba]

May I add Painswick, once an important wool town with a grandiose church. It declined in the 19th century as it was not economically feasible to build a railway up to it - it is sited on the western edge of the Cotwolds.

You may, but with a population of only 3000, it is very down the list. I think Peacehaven will win for a mainland place that is not part of London or some other city.

 

[30907]

Yes, sorry; I was going by the name rather than trying to go in depth with anything. The ONS has statistics for smaller areas within London, but they have names like Bromley 039D.

Biggin Hill appears to include:
Bromley 039A (1273 people)
Bromley 039B (1323)
Bromley 039C (1400)
Bromley 039D (1587)
Bromley 039E (1462)
Bromley 042A (1358)
Bromley 042D (1548)
Tatsfield (2282)

Total: 12233

Bromley 042C includes part of Biggin Hill, but it also includes Cudham and part of Berry's Green. As I don't know how much is in each, I've ignored it.

Thanks. I would put the bit along the A21 in with Biggin Hill, but on the other hand Tatsfield - much older community - probably resents being lumped in with a bit of BH by the census people Anyway, 11-12k seems the right ballpark which is what matters.

 

[cuccir]

Houghton-le-Spring was fairly well served by the station at Fencehouses - it's not in the town but at 1.5 miles from the town centre it's no further than stations would have been for lots of people.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I have only chanced upon this thread by accident, but recently in discussion, I was asked if Brecon ever had a railway station. I know of three stations, one of each of three different railway companies:-

Brecon Watton ... This was a station of the Brecon and Merthyr Tydfil Railway (The least well-known of the three)
Brecon Mount Street ... This was a station of the Mid-Wales Railway
Brecon Free Street ... This was a station of the Neath and Brecon Railway.

When it was necessary to rationalise railway matters in the town, Brecon Mount Street closed and services used Brecon Free Street, which became the joint station.

 

[Calthrop]

Rothwell, Northamptonshire. Unlike its Yorkshire namesake, it looks like no one tried a passenger service on its railway.

There was Desborough & Rothwell station (called earlier, Desborough for Rothwell) -- closed to passengers 1968 -- one stop out of Market Harborough in the London direction, on the Midland main line. Admittedly it was close by Desborough, but two-to-three miles away from Rothwell town.

To make things a bit simpler, I've put populations for some of the places mentioned so far in a table below. The Scottish populations are all taken from the spreadsheet of 2012 populations here. The English and Welsh ones are from 2011 figures here. For these, I've used the "built up area" or "subdivision" where they exist.

Name	Population	Source	Notes
West Bridgford	45509	link	Area contains Edwalton station
Canvey Island	38170	link	offshore
Thamesmead	31824	link 1 2	Population of "Thamesmead" wards.
New Addington	22280	link	Has Tramlink
Peacehaven	18579	link
Houghton-le-Spring	13863	link	Area includes Newbottle and Burnside
Biggin Hill	12233		See #72
Waterlooville	9549	link	Population of Waterloo ward
Dunoon	9540
Cambourne	8186	link
Rothwell	7694	link
Shaftesbury	7314	link
Stornoway	7500		offshore
Torpoint	7717	link
Dartmouth	5610	link
Penrhyn Bay	4432	link	Had a tramway
Beaminster	2957	link
Lyndhurst	2347	link
Ullapool	1510
Beaumaris	1370	link	offshore

I've also added Peacehaven, which I understand didn't really get going until buses were a viable option.

(My bolding) -- indeed: Peacehaven came into being as a settlement, during World War I.

What I find an entertaining bit of trivia -- granted, not relevant to the actual topic of this thread: at Peacehaven's founding, with first construction, in 1916 -- to generate interest in the project, its founder ran a competition for a name for the new community. The original winner -- devised as a tribute to the heroism of Australian and New Zealand troops in the then-recent, and abortive, Gallipoli campaign in the war -- was "New-ANZAC-on-Sea"; which would have been a heck of a mouthful to lumber a town with, as a name ! Second thoughts were had -- occasioning quite some ill-feeling; but the name was scrapped in favour of Peacehaven.

 

[Dr_Paul]

There was a proposal for rails to Ullapool at at about the same time as Dingwall - Kyle. Can't remember details off hand but have seen drawings of that and other coeval schemes in which lines west coast settlements were served by individual lines running from the east.

There's a Wikipedia page here on the proposed line to Ullapool, a branch from the Kyle line. There was also plans to build a branch to Aultbea from the Kyle line (including three miles on a one in 33 grade), and Lochinver and Laxford from the Far North Line, all on the west coast.

 

[Purple Orange]

Could areas with cities count? There is a huge blob of south Manchester that has neither train nor tram and it has a very big population.

 

[daodao]

Could areas with cities count? There is a huge blob of south Manchester that has neither train nor tram and it has a very big population.

Where? The area was criss-crossed with rail lines and once had a dense network of tram lines.

 

[matchmaker]

There's a Wikipedia page here on the proposed line to Ullapool, a branch from the Kyle line. There was also plans to build a branch to Aultbea from the Kyle line (including three miles on a one in 33 grade), and Lochinver and Laxford from the Far North Line, all on the west coast.

There were also railways proposed on Skye!

 

[Purple Orange]

Where? The area was criss-crossed with rail lines and once had a dense network of tram lines.

Look at the map, moss side, Whalley range, Rusholme, Victoria Park, the university area, Longsight. There may have been tram lines once, but they were nothing like the light metro lines we have today given they were more akin to buses.

That unserved area is even bigger today without the fallowfield loop.

 

[daodao]

Look at the map, moss side, Whalley range, Rusholme, Victoria Park, the university area, Longsight. There may have been tram lines once, but they were nothing like the light metro lines we have today given they were more akin to buses.

That unserved area is even bigger today without the fallowfield loop.

Longsight did have a railway station.

The Princess Road tramway was reserved track nearly as far as the depot, like much of the new tramway in Wythenshawe, which was intended to be its ultimate destination.

Alexandra Park/Wilbraham Road station on the Fallowfield loop line served Whalley Range, but services declined post WW1 once the Wilbraham Road tramway was opened.

However, the whole area that you refer to is not that large and is far too close to Manchester city centre to sustain heavy rail suburban services.

There's a Wikipedia page here on the proposed line to Ullapool, a branch from the Kyle line. There was also plans to build a branch to Aultbea from the Kyle line (including three miles on a one in 33 grade), and Lochinver and Laxford from the Far North Line, all on the west coast.

With the benefit of hindsight, the line to Ullapool would have been more useful than that to Kyle of Lochalsh, as the most convenient ferry port on the Scottish mainland for services to Stornoway.

 

[Taunton]

With the benefit of hindsight, the line to Ullapool would have been more useful than that to Kyle of Lochalsh, as the most convenient ferry port on the Scottish mainland for services to Stornoway.

Yes, but Kyle was the obvious rail point for the short trip across the strait to Skye, which it would be inappropriate to serve across open sea from Ullapool. The ferry from Stornoway long routed to Kyle via Portree, largest Skye town (and next nearest significant town to Stornoway), and then carried on from Kyle to Mallaig for the train to Glasgow. Glasgow was actually the principal focus for the Western Isles, more than Inverness.

 

[Purple Orange]

Longsight did have a railway station.

The Princess Road tramway was reserved track nearly as far as the depot, like much of the new tramway in Wythenshawe, which was intended to be its ultimate destination.

Alexandra Park/Wilbraham Road station on the Fallowfield loop line served Whalley Range, but services declined post WW1 once the Wilbraham Road tramway was opened.

However, the whole area that you refer to is not that large and is far too close to Manchester city centre to sustain heavy rail suburban services.

With the benefit of hindsight, the line to Ullapool would have been more useful than that to Kyle of Lochalsh, as the most convenient ferry port on the Scottish mainland for services to Stornoway.

I’m positive that had our Victorian forefathers built a suburban rail network through south Manchester, it would have a very high patronage. It’s a large city, if you had not noticed.

PS, the thread was about national rail, not tramways.

 

[sk688]

Has Kingswood in South Glos had a train station ?

 

[Jonny]

Whickham, Gateshead may be a contender (about 16,000) - its geography is uniquely difficult for railways. It is not far from Dunston and Metrocentre stations in horizontal terms, but it is mostly 100 metres+ of altitude higher.

 

[TrevorY]

Wotton-under-edge, Gloucestershire, current population 6,510.

 

[Bald Rick]

Wotton-under-edge, Gloucestershire, current population 6,510.

The last two words of the placename explain why!