Why are bus ticket prices not made available online?

[Drsatan]

Generally, unless you are travelling somewhere with a zonal fare system or know which day/weekly ticket you wish to buy, it is difficult to find out the cost of a single or return before getting on board the bus.

A few operators (such as Black Velvet Travel before closing down) did publish the price of their tickets at bus stops, but overall, other bus operators like to keep single and return prices a secret. Why is this? Surely they have nothing to hide?

 

[PermitToTravel]

This often irritates me when I'm trying to travel by bus outside PTE areas, and usually puts me off doing so. Some bus operators (e.g. Stagecoach Manchester) publish all their fare tables

The ones that really draw my ire are the ones like First Manchester that publish their headline special offer fares, but pretend none of the rest exist

 

[ag51ruk]

Trent Barton have all of their fares available online in a very user friendly way (IMO) - High Peak let you download the fare tables for each route. So some operators do this.

 

[telstarbox]

Probably because most bus users either have no other option or benefit from concessionary fares, so they aren't as price sensitive as rail users.

 

[richw]

It costs more here where I am for a 16 mile round trip return ticket by bus than a 130 mile round trip return by rail.

I wouldn't want to advertise that if I was the bus company either,

 

[KendalKing]

but overall, other bus operators like to keep single and return prices a secret. Why is this? Surely they have nothing to hide?

Because they don't want you to know just how much they are Ripping you off by.

Stagecoach in Lancaster:- Lancaster - Morecambe (approx 4 miles) and return by services 2,2A,3,4 cost £4.90 (abt 61p per a mile)

Stagecoach in Manchester:- Horwich - Stockport (approx 28 miles) and return by service 125 to Bolton, then service 22 to Stockport cost £4.10 (abt 15p per a mile)

First in Manchester:- Horwich - Huddersfield (approx 39 miles) and return by service 575 to Bolton, then service 36,37 to Manchester, then 184 to Huddersfield cost £4.20 (11p per a mile)

 

[hassaanhc]

Looks like someone has read my mind, as I was most annoyed about that earlier. First Group due notorious for that. A potential move while going for the Anglia Class 37 workings sees me taking the First Eastern Counties X1 between Lowestoft and Great Yarmouth. But there is no information on their website about what the single fares are, and this is on a premium route with high quality buses, designed to attract the discretionary passenger. To add insult to injury, they are no longer replying to tweets :roll:. Don't they want passengers to have exact change?

I remember in 2013 I found myself at Heathrow Central Bus Station and wanted to sample one of First Berkshire's new hybrid single deckers. I had £3.15 change with me. How much was a single to Slough? £4.60! I was shocked at that! A day ticket covering that is £6, so I made a day of it, sampling other routes and vehicles from their fleet too.

On the other hand, Go Ahead are more than happy to publish single and return fares, even if it costs £8.10 (MoreBus Route 50 return between Bournemouth and Studland)

 

[Liam]

Some fares are available on Traveline website.

 

[DeeGee]

I came up against this yesterday. I was presented with an early morning itinerary which required me to get a bus a 6:20 to get a train from Grimsby Town, or 6:45 to get the same train from Market Rasen. I know the fare from my house to Grimsby, but not from my house to Rasen. Obviously there was a price difference for the train ticket, but would this difference be lost with the bus ticket?

In the end, I decided to go for an extra 15 minutes in bed, but as I have no idea what this will cost the driver's getting a tenner from me.

Which means I'll probably receive a change voucher which I'll never use.

 

[Greenback]

I've always found it rather ironic that bus companies urge you to have the exact money for the fare but finding out that fare in the first place is usually impossible!

Then there are those that don't give change at all, which makes it even more necessary to know how much you're going to pay ahead of time.

 

[gordonthemoron]

most bus company websites are rubbish so it's hardly surprising the fare details are missing

 

[talltim]

I've always found it rather ironic that bus companies urge you to have the exact money for the fare but finding out that fare in the first place is usually impossible!

Then there are those that don't give change at all, which makes it even more necessary to know how much you're going to pay ahead of time.

Wot Greeback said!

 

[LuSiVe]

You can get them for Stagecoach (Sheffield at least):

https://www.stagecoachbus.com/Single Fares in Sheffield.aspx

 

[Greenback]

I have managed to get prices for individual journeys by emailing the company, but that's usually only been effective for smaller operators.

It would be good if more bus company websites had the current fares available to view.

 

[Tetchytyke]

For a while the single fares were shown for services in the north east through Traveline, but they weren't updated and then disappeared altogether.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It would help if bus companies simplified single fares - for most city networks, a zonal system would work well, and this could be displayed clearly at stops and on the route maps on their website. Granular stage-based fares seem to me to be overcomplicated and do cause people to find it hard to get the fare ready.

Milton Keynes near enough already has zonal fares (there are only 4 levels) - it wouldn't be much of a step to make them *actually* zonal[1] in any location where most travel is to and from the centre, which would be most towns, though not always big cities.

[1] They are, in order of cost: centre only, short journey, normal single journey, cross-city. Easiest way of doing that in a proper zonal manner without hitting people too hard for going across boundaries would be to have fares for up to 2 zones, up to 3 zones and all zones, with the zones radiating from the centre in a TfL manner.

Not so practical for rural networks, though, I suppose.

 

[crehld]

Not so practical for rural networks, though, I suppose.

My experience of rural bus networks is if you have to ask, you probably can't afford it!

 

[gnolife]

Because they don't want you to know just how much they are Ripping you off by.

Stagecoach in Lancaster:- Lancaster - Morecambe (approx 4 miles) and return by services 2,2A,3,4 cost £4.90 (abt 61p per a mile)

Stagecoach in Manchester:- Horwich - Stockport (approx 28 miles) and return by service 125 to Bolton, then service 22 to Stockport cost £4.10 (abt 15p per a mile)

First in Manchester:- Horwich - Huddersfield (approx 39 miles) and return by service 575 to Bolton, then service 36,37 to Manchester, then 184 to Huddersfield cost £4.20 (11p per a mile)

With Stagecoach Manchester, you may as well go the whole hog and carry on from Stockport to Hayfield using route 358 (totally approx 42 miles), reducing the pence per mile to approximately 10p

 

[bb21]

Fares transparency has always been an issue in the bus industry. This is a historical issue. I am sure we had discussions on this topic before. Arms length companies tended to be better at this in the past with most NBC company fares a closely guarded secret.

To be fair the situation has much improved compared to before with many more operators now making their fares available online, either through publishing the fare tables or in a more user friendly way like TrentBarton.

I wonder how many drivers still carry a copy of the fare table around with them for inspection by the passenger.

 

[radamfi]

Not so practical for rural networks, though, I suppose.

You only say that because you are talking about the UK. As you know, German PTE-type areas have zonal fares across the entire region, urban and rural. Zonal and flat fare systems are common throughout the world. The Netherlands used to have a zonal system for the entire country but thanks to smartcards the fare for any journey nationwide can be simply calculated by boarding fee + (rate per km x number of km), and the fare for any journey can be found online at 9292.nl.

I'm surprised I haven't read any posts excusing the British bus industry for keeping fares a secret. Some apologists for the British bus industry would claim that zonal fares are impossible given the lack of subsidy. But you just have higher zonal fares than you would do in a subsidised environment. And (as highlighted above) many areas already have near zonal-like fare structures. It is clear that the industry can't be trusted to publish something as basic as their fares, so it looks like it needs to be made mandatory by law. I wouldn't be surprised if patronage is positively correlated to the willingness of the operator to publish their fares.

But even those operators who publish their single fares show the fare paid if no interchange is required. TfL claim their single fare is £1.50, but in reality the single fare can be anything up to the daily cap. As far as I know, TfL don't explain anywhere in their publicity that single fares don't include interchange. Given London's status as a tourist mecca, I'm sure that leads to confusion. Doubly so, given that interchange is included in other TfL fares. Bizarrely, the only operator I know who publishes the "true" single fare (i.e. including transfers) is First in Taunton or Bridgwater, not somewhere noted for exceptional services!

http://www.busesofsomerset.co.uk/tickets.shtml

 

[Bletchleyite]

You only say that because you are talking about the UK. As you know, German PTE-type areas have zonal fares across the entire region, urban and rural.

True, though the German Verkehrsverbuende are largely like our PTEs in their structure - they cover large cities and their commuter hinterland (some of which is a bit rural) rather than rural farmland and the likes. In the latter case, fares are likely to be just as obscure as in the UK. Though some have grown into more rural areas, such as the HVV. The equivalent in the UK might be extending Merseytravel to Burscough (that being the rough outer edge of the substantial commuter area for Liverpool) rather than having it apply to the back end of Wales.

 

[richw]

First Kernow advertises their single fares are £2, £3, £4 and £5. Return fares are 1.5 the single fare. There is no information based on what journeys cost what though.

http://firstkernow.co.uk/fares.shtml

As the cheapest fare is £2, a short journey can work very high per mile cost. Incentive to walk

 

[bb21]

But even those operators who publish their single fares show the fare paid if no interchange is required. TfL claim their single fare is £1.50, but in reality the single fare can be anything up to the daily cap. As far as I know, TfL don't explain anywhere in their publicity that single fares don't include interchange. Given London's status as a tourist mecca, I'm sure that leads to confusion. Doubly so, given that interchange is included in other TfL fares. Bizarrely, the only operator I know who publishes the "true" single fare (i.e. including transfers) is First in Taunton or Bridgwater, not somewhere noted for exceptional services!

http://www.busesofsomerset.co.uk/tickets.shtml

What confusion?

Transfer fares in this country has always been the exception rather than the norm, with even those offering them only doing so on selected flows only rather than it being network-wide.

Who said fare structures in this country has to be the same as those on the continent?

 

[radamfi]

What confusion?

Transfer fares in this country has always been the exception rather than the norm, with even those offering them only doing so on selected flows only rather than it being network-wide.

It is not confusing for Brits and Irish, but most other tourists will be familiar with single fares covering a whole single journey, not just part of one.

 

[richw]

It is not confusing for Brits and Irish, but most other tourists will be familiar with single fares covering a whole single journey, not just part of one.

First Kernow are in the process of introducing through fares, only available on limited routes Initially such as Newquay to Truro to Falmouth. I'm not sure of projected launch date though. They are not yet available.

 

[bb21]

It is not confusing for Brits and Irish, but most other tourists will be familiar with single fares covering a whole single journey, not just part of one.

How many confused tourists do we have out there?

 

[Bletchleyite]

How many confused tourists do we have out there?

Most of them probably just ask for help, and one friendly[1] aspect of the UK system outside London is that the driver can and will advise on fares and how they work, provided your English (or often Polish, which is probably quite helpful to eastern European tourists) is up to scratch. As compared to many non-UK systems or London where the driver doesn't do tickets or even is hidden behind a partition.

[1] To tourists; that a cash transaction including change giving is required for a UK bus journey does slow things down.

 

[radamfi]

How many confused tourists do we have out there?

Sorry, I haven't done a survey.

I grew up in the Greater Manchester so I grew up with single fares only covering a trip in one vehicle. I didn't think anything of it. I wasn't too bothered as child single fares were 10p any distance. However when I started to travel by train at a later age it did come as a bit of surprise that the fare was the same whether I changed or not. Logically, therefore, it was even a bigger surprise when I realised that through bus/tram/metro journeys were covered by one ticket when I travelled abroad. I then realised that what we have in the UK is completely stupid. Arguably I was a bit thick for not realising it before.

I have read stories of university students thinking they had to have separate tickets for individual trains on a through train journey, because they were used to the same principle on buses. I'm sure that some Brits pay unnecessarily for changing buses/trams, at least at first, when travelling outside the UK.

Even many American cities give you free transfers, even between buses and subways. Americans are supposed to be clueless about public transport.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Americans are supposed to be clueless about public transport.

That's often said but it isn't true - their city public transport services in the bigger cities are very competently run, and they have a massive passenger public transport service around the whole country that shifts millions daily - it just happens to have wings.

The US versions of the "airline" programmes are a most interesting and educational watch - in the UK airports tend to be full of holidaymakers and business travellers, whereas in the US they're full of a microcosm of society travelling for all sorts of reasons just like the trains, buses and indeed motorways of the much smaller UK.

 

[DEE-DE]

I am currently in Penzance but I have no clue whatsoever the bus fare to the station is. Saying it is at least 2 quid means it's a proper ripoff. For my departure date I've got a Plusbus with Railcard discount for £1.30. Should've gotten one for today as well instead of walking.

The only fare I was able to find is the Ride Cornwall combined bus and train day ticket for £10, with a saving of £1.70 with a Railcard, but that cannot be sold on a bus.

I grew up in Germany so this is completely foreign to me. Amusingly, I could buy a through ticket for the steam railway at Bodmin from Penzance station.