Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by TT-ONR-NRN, 4 Dec 2019.
I mean they could increase it by more than RPI+1%.
Nope, I’ve seen plenty of passengers in the wrong and am fully aware of how bad the general public can be at times!
Presumably this problem arises partly or largely because of the practice of only announcing the platform at Euston a few minutes before departure so hundreds of tickets have to be checked in a short time.
What every other toc manage s to treat their passengers with courtesy and they still get the RPI+1% increase.
Well that's not the impression the disputes sub forum gives. But staff being grumpy and conducting revenue checks does not have a quantifiable effect on revenue, but stopping checks & waiving all and sundry through most certainly could, especially in the eyes of the owners, any shareholders and most of all DfT. This is how the world turns.
Really? How long does it take you to read a restriction code? About 30 seconds I would say.
If the staff are not up to the job, give them the appropriate training. If they are still not, get rid and get some who are competent.
(An online "is it valid or not" would be quite useful, but the danger is that it will itself make incorrect judgements where TOCs have created unimplementable restriction codes, e.g. all of LNR's Super Off Peaks which contain the unimplementable line "a connecting service may be used to complete a journey begun at a correct time").
Yet this thread highlights a particular problem with VTWC staff that doesn't appear to exist on other TOCs..multiple incidents of people being turned away with valid tickets. SWR manage it and Waterloo is a busier station than Euston
I suspect you mostly use Euston using a simple ticket (single, return, Travelcard or season) from Fenny Stratford to Euston/R1256, no? And mostly using LNR, which is an entirely separate barrier line which is not the subject of this discussion? It isn't really relevant, then.
 There is no cross-TOC ticket checking at Euston between VT/Avanti and LNR. Each checks their own services exclusively, plus LNR checks for LO.
Waterloo has automatic barriers - these probably just accept these "potentially awkward" tickets and so they aren't questioned.
When I've had a season Travelcard I have on multiple occasions used that to pass a barrier to avoid arguments over validity on a possibly obscure but valid ticket or combination thereof. As SWR runs trains that stop inside the Zones, this will work at all the barriers at Waterloo.
I also use virgin on a regular basis but yes generally a simple ticket
I believe one of the issues is Euston VTWC regularly don't accept outboundary or split travelcards as being valid on their services , particularly when one is on oyster
VTWC always opposed the use of 19(c)/Condition 14 splits, so I suspect the management may have been in on this specific one. They even at one point managed to convince Silverlink not to sell such splits at the ticket office - there was clear signage about this at MKC at one point.
And as if timing could be any more perfect, it seems they are still at it:
Bloody hell! Reading some of the stuff on here, they really do seem to give the goon squads up North a run for their money!
Now chuck in thousands of people trying to push past onto their trains, people shouting and moaning at you, and all the time your manager catching you expecting you to take less than 30 seconds. Good luck with your new job....
Like I said, the disputes forum doesn't agree with you...
If a VTWC member of staff doesn't understand any of the restriction codes requiring them to look up every single passenger ticket their training and their competence is very poor
The majority of those are people without any ticket at all let along invalid ones. Indeed the minority of the posts on that forum where someone has had a valid ticket stands out for being so rare but two names do crop up regularly when someone has a valid ticket .
1.)VTWC at Euston
2.)GwR at paddington
I wonder if they have problems recruiting in London, especially right now at a time of relatively low unemployment.
In the rest of the UK, a job on the railways would be seen as quite a good job, but London has so many other options.
Noticed condition 14 splits have been mentioned a few times? What are these? A combination of tickets where the split is at a station where the train calls?
A combination involving a season ticket where the train does not need to call. The common use-case for these is south WCML commuters from stations south of MKC who normally travel with LNR wishing to buy a ticket to extend their journey to somewhere (e.g. Manchester) they're off to for the weekend.
For instance, a Bletchley<->Euston season plus an Off Peak Return Bletchley-Manchester is valid on a through train to Manchester from Euston even though it does not call. Though by my reading of the restriction code's wording it would gain Euston's restrictions rather than Bletchley's in this case (and this sort of thing may be the root of some of the disputes).
Find a technological solution? Like some sort of gate which can read a ticket and only open for those with valid tickets?
Ah I see. So sort of like having a Network West Midlands card from Birmingham but then buying a single Wolverhampton to Manchester? But with the train not needing to call at Wolverhampton (although it probably would anyway)?
Yes, that sort of thing.
For example a zone 1-6 travelcard and an single ticket from headstone lane to Manchester would be an example of a condition 14 split.
Under a regular combination of tickets, why is it that the train must call at the station where the tickets are split, but not with these condition 14 splits?
For such allegation of misconduct, the staff member needs to be suspended immediately while it is thoroughly investigated. As a minimum, the TOC needs to pay a large sum in compensation if found wanting.
Condition 14s is where one ticket is a season ticket it is to allow travel for season ticket holders further along the line without them having to get off.
Wouldn't evidence be needed to suspend someone rather than an allegation that a ticket inspector said someone's ticket was fraudulent? I get that there are a lot of complaints being discussed here but there are surely going to be a lot of allegations about any revenue staff who refuse to budge on a ticket?
First Group have post losses of nearly £200 million in the first 6 months up to September this year. Money will be tight, lack of spending will result in low staff morale. The staff perks will be nothing compared to working for Virgin. Look what’s happened on the SWR franchise since First Group took over.
The allegation is serious, therefore there needs to be a suspension while evidence is collected and analysed. Obviously on full pay.
It's worth bearing in mind though that anyone, particularly with social media, can make an allegation against someone. Granted that of course doesn't mean something hasn't happened. But it doesn't always mean it happened exactly as someone accuses either.
How many people will be likely to have an interaction with a revenue inspector where their ticket is refused, maybe several times, and go away satisfied with their interaction with that member of staff?
Presumably this is why revenue teams often work in multiples or have bodycams.