Why Are We Always In A Hurry?

[AndyLandy]

Would you agree the THIRTY minute saving on a Norwich - London journey is worthwhile though? It's only natural that other stations between the two termini will also see a sped up service.

Unless you achieve the speed increase on the longer-distance journeys by reducing the number of calls at intermediate stations.

 

[Bevan Price]

Would you agree the THIRTY minute saving on a Norwich - London journey is worthwhile though? It's only natural that other stations between the two termini will also see a sped up service.

But impossible unless they extend the 4 track section all the way from London to at least Colchester, or withdraw most of the semi-fast / stopping services.

Look at the timetable, for example, and see how other trains prevent any significant acceleration between London & Ipswich of the xx:00 London - Norwich services.

 

[pinguini]

If they speed up journey times too much then fewer people will have easy access to rail travel

 

[AndyLandy]

If they speed up journey times too much then fewer people will have easy access to rail travel

How do you reach that conclusion?

 

[JamesRowden]

For me, it's about dealing with the long overall journey times. To go home and visit my folks means spending five hours travelling. If a speed increase on one leg takes that down to 4:30 then that's an extra half-hour I can spend with my family at each end.

It doesn't even have to be the exact half-hour. Potentially a ten minute saving might enable me to make a half-hour earlier connection.

Whilst I don't mind spending time travelling. I'd far rather spend time either at home or with my family rather than somewhere en-route.

It is obvious that getting somewhere quicker at no extra cost is an advantage. What I was trying to analyse are irrational things that create greater motivation for people to sacrifice more money or effort in order to make a journey quicker.

 

[Qwerty133]

What about onward connections? Sometimes if the first service was 5 minutes quicker it could mean you can arrive at your final destination 30 minutes or more earlier.

or of course 30 minutes later, your second service could leave 5 minutes earlier meaning it no longer connects with your first service.

 

[Goatboy]

Where would we be today without the desire for continuous improvement?

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Where would we be today without the desire for continuous improvement?

Still in caves.

I don't know that part of the country at all. I've never travelled on the GEML, but I will say that if they can make Liverpool St - Ipswich journey times sub one hour then it is a big deal. There is something psychological about beating the hour. It could attract more people to the railway and more investment to Ipswich.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Unless the person in question would need to buy a very expensive season ticket, I think that not having a car and using public transport, walking and/or cycling works out a fair bit cheaper. Even if it does not seem so convenient.

In my experience, if my wife and I are travelling without our children it is all too often cheaper to drive which is exactly what we do. Walk on fares are way too expensive and the cheaper advance fares are too complicated for the casual rail user to understand.

 

[jopsuk]

(for tbtc especially)

I was actually hoping to see a discussion about why people always seem to be in such a rush these days (and not just on train journeys).

Define "these days"- what's your reference point when you reckon people were generally in less of a hurry?

 

[DownSouth]

Define "these days"- what's your reference point when you reckon people were generally in less of a hurry?

It's harder to be in a hurry when you have your vision impaired by a pair of rose-tinted glasses. You are liable to trip over something and do yourself an injury

 

[PG]

It's harder to be in a hurry when you have your vision impaired by a pair of rose-tinted glasses. You are liable to trip over something and do yourself an injury

...and in these 'enlightened times' they'll be some ambulance chasing type firm encouraging you to sue the pants off of anyone they can think of
Back in the day you'd just kick yourself for being careless
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

In my experience, if my wife and I are travelling without our children it is all too often cheaper to drive which is exactly what we do. Walk on fares are way too expensive and the cheaper advance fares are too complicated for the casual rail user to understand.

Really? I'd wager that most people, even your casual rail user, are well used to the 'budget airline style' ticket model of Advance train tickets ie commit to travel on a specific service and in return get a cheaper ticket...I'm aware that's not always the case on some flows or TOCs *ahem* XC !

I'm sure any guard/TM will tell you of passengers who claim they didn't realise their Advance complete with reservation meant that they had to get on that specific service but the amount who really don't realise is akin to the number of turkeys that vote for xmas

 

[yorksrob]

He has a point though.

The differential between off-peak walk on fares does seem rather too large in some cases.

I suspect the railway may have lost a lot of business by not having reasonably priced offpeak tickets. Of course, advanced purchase tickets will have masked a lot of this, but I wonder how big that market of people, illustrated by Richmond Commu, who are willing to pay more for greater flexibility, but not if it isn't competitive with motor transport, is.

 

[PG]

Aye, it'd be interesting to go back to the days of the (reasonably priced) Saver now and see if overall that'd get more bums on seats as opposed to Advances where you often see rows of empty reserved seats.

I guess it's possible, question is could the TOCs be persuaded that it'd be (more) profitable?

 

[yorksrob]

Don't get me wrong, advances do cater for a particular section of the population, and one that wasn't particularly well served before they came about.

Perhaps one of the InterCity TOC's could designate some of their quieter trains of the day as "super off peak" and offer cheaper walk on and period returns that could be used on them. I know it goes against the whole ethos of simplification, but if the general off peak period isn't going to go back to a walk on service any time soon, it's still worth looking at how the balance of price and flexibility can be adjusted to appeal to more people.

 

[PG]

Don't get me wrong, advances do cater for a particular section of the population, and one that wasn't particularly well served before they came about.

Perhaps one of the InterCity TOC's could designate some of their quieter trains of the day as "super off peak" and offer cheaper walk on and period returns that could be used on them. I know it goes against the whole ethos of simplification, but if the general off peak period isn't going to go back to a walk on service any time soon, it's still worth looking at how the balance of price and flexibility can be adjusted to appeal to more people.

That's what I'm curious about... prior to Advances were trains hauling about mainly 'fresh air' ?

Hopefully something like what you propose can happen as IMO the price differential between fixed and flexible is too much.

Yes it does go against the ethos of simplification but then again the last bout of simplification was anything but simplifying

 

[edwin_m]

Research by BR going back to the 70s suggested that, other things being equal, reducing a long distance journey time by 10% would increase revenue by about 9%.

 

[RichmondCommu]

...Really? I'd wager that most people, even your casual rail user, are well used to the 'budget airline style' ticket model of Advance train tickets ie commit to travel on a specific service and in return get a cheaper ticket...I'm aware that's not always the case on some flows or TOCs *ahem* XC !

I'm sure any guard/TM will tell you of passengers who claim they didn't realise their Advance complete with reservation meant that they had to get on that specific service but the amount who really don't realise is akin to the number of turkeys that vote for xmas

Sorry, I've realised that my previous post wasn't particulary clear. What I meant to say was that the number of different tickets available makes rail travel too complicated for the casual user. Why not just have two types of ticket; Peak and Off Peak with fares somewhere in the middle compared to where they are now.

I concur that the vast majority of casual rail users understand how advance fares work with their restrictions on use.

 

[Bill EWS]

I have seen considerable improvements in train speeds virtually everywere I travel by train these days, with a few excepions. Wen I first travelled from Aberdeen to Berkshire it took good 15 hours from end to end. That's via Kings Cross and Paddington. Going via the West cast was not worth thinking about. Today I travel via the west coast via Oxford, Wolverhampton and Edinburgh but return Via Aberdeen to York then from York to Oxford.

Two things make this journey fast and easier in spite of the change of trains! TRavelling aross London has always been a nightmare and anything that avoids travelling that way is a bonus. Birmingham New Street is the next to avoid wherever possible and in this case I manage not only to do both but the changes at Oxford, Wolverhampton and Edinburgh (Haymarket) are all on the same platform and it is likewise at York and Oxford on the return journey. Likewise waiting times between trains at these places are quite reasonable. So over all the journey is quite straight forwards and the trains all reasonably fast. I can't see how my journey could be made much faster and as I have mentioned, is considerably faster than the 15 hours in the latter 50's and i nto the 70's when the HST was introduced.

A lot of journies could be improved likewise with enough planning and for some realistic integration between services. As has been mentioned already it is not much fun having a fast mainline train if you have 40 minutes to two hours wait at exchange stations for the next train or bus. There is room for making these sort of changes at the moment without considering building faster lines. Sadly, with privatisation you are not going to get it as whether it is different train or bus companies they are only interested in their own patches and running them as cheaply as they can get away with.

The one change that could improved journies such. the Aberdeen services I mention would be for longer trains. In most cases the annoyance and discomfort is generally due to over crowding.

This doss tally with the thread in hand as these improvements can be made, in many cases, without increasing the speeds as at present. Going faster doesn't always mean that you are getting to your destination that much faster if the exchange times are still in an hour or more rather than in say, 15 to 20 minutes.

A good example is when I travel up to Derbyshire! With one train I get a ten-12 minute exchange at Derby but with all the others it is a 40 minute wait every time, each way. That's an hour and a half of my day waisted just at Derby, but then there is the 35-40 minutes wasted at Oxford, each way making for another hour and more wasted in my day so over all there is nearly three hours wasted in my day out just waiting at stations.

You can add these sorts of delays all over our railways.

 

[route:oxford]

Perhaps one of the InterCity TOC's could designate some of their quieter trains of the day as "super off peak" and offer cheaper walk on and period returns that could be used on them.

The trouble with this is that, particularly with XC, an off-peak train at one station is a peak train 3 hours later.

 

[Goatboy]

The trouble with this is that, particularly with XC, an off-peak train at one station is a peak train 3 hours later.

Probably a more likely outcome if XC had any quieter trains would be to lease some 153's instead and run them as a single 153. Then they could remove most of the Advance fares and increase the other fares by as much as they could to address the subsequent overcrowding, blaming the whole thing on the fact the service is now 'really busy'

 

[Moonshot]

Going back to the original question of " why are people always in a hurry ".....imo this is related to the average work life balance and the type of jobs a lot of people do nowadays. Getting to work on time when your job involves sitting in front of a PC all day is seen as highly important , particularly when " Big Brother Observation " measurements are a fundamental part of that. The fact that most of these jobs start at 9 and finish at 5 doesnt help the rail industry!!!

 

[pemma]

The trouble with this is that, particularly with XC, an off-peak train at one station is a peak train 3 hours later.

Peak depends on the ticket held and the time of the train not just the time of the train.

Example:
Huddersfield to York Off-Peak Day Return is valid from 08:45.
Leeds to York Off-Peak Day Return is valid from 09:30.

So a passenger with the latter cannot board the 09:28 departure at Leeds for Newcastle without first excessing to the peak fare. However, a passenger with the former may already be on that train.

 

[PG]

What I meant to say was that the number of different tickets available makes rail travel too complicated for the casual user. Why not just have two types of ticket; Peak and Off Peak with fares somewhere in the middle compared to where they are now.

That would certainly make it easier to decide which ticket to get, as yes I'd agree with you that people in general do get confused over the plethora of different tickets available.

I'm hesitant as I don't have the figures/knowledge but would that get us to a situation of reinventing the wheel when some 'bright spark' notices that a few trains have empty seats and introduces a pre-book train specific ticket aka Advance.... arrrr :roll:

 

[yorksrob]

The trouble with this is that, particularly with XC, an off-peak train at one station is a peak train 3 hours later.

That's a fair point. They'd presumably have to select services that avoid lapsing into the peak period at any given time.

 

[Train Pilchard]

In a hurry generally: too many people are stressed and terrified of falling behind in the rat race always trying to keep up with the Jones'.

Wanting faster trains: Train travel isn't something romantic and to be enjoyed the majority of the time, it's a pretty sterile functional experience, it's purpose is to get you somewhere. Naturally you want to get their as fast as you can because any time saved is more time for better things than sitting on a busy and not particularly comfortable train. And if it is for commuting any time savings are more time in bed!