Why can't doors open at both sides at stations such as Finsbury Park?

[Esker-pades]

At Manchester Victoria, trams from the Airport which terminate there have doors opened on both sides so passengers can change on to a Bury or Rochdale-bound tram without having to walk all the way round and across the track. However, boarding the Airport tram is supposed to be from the island platform used by other inbound trams - logical really. This may happen elsewhere on light rail systems (DLR?) where the regulations are different from railways.

Yes: Canary Wharf being the best example for the DLR.

 

[HaggisBotherer]

Apologies, I must have either missed or forgotten the previous discussion.
To counter the issue of people onboard not knowing which side to alight from, which I imagine happens even with illuminating buttons and release sounders, you could even have signs along the fence reading something along the lines of:
"Alight from the other side of the train"

If fencing was put up then signs like this would very much be possible and a good idea. I suppose the only reason against it would be the fencing stopping an emergency evacuation on the other side, but how likely is that?

More simply and effectively, ALIGHT OTHER SIDE, which was the solution 40 years ago when Ore to Appledore was singled and BR wanted to ensure people didn't try and get out on the side which they were used to getting out of, but which now comprised a drop to the empty trackbed between the train and the now-disused platform.

In the days before sliding doors and central door locking, this was a very real issue.

 

[Clip]

They still have DO NOT ALIGHT HERE signs at many stations - even on both platforms at Kings Cross Thameslink

 

[Indigo Soup]

Platform alterations can easily change that. It works on the London Underground when trains can only use one platform (most of the time). NR platforming is much more complicated.

It's certainly managed on other main line railway networks - not all, but some at least. It would be interesting to know why they can manage it and we can't - simply saying 'that's not how we do things here' isn't a very satisfactory answer for why the UK is content with leaving passengers to guess.

It might be because their operating methods mean that platform alterations are less frequent. It might be that the exit side has to be manually confirmed before the announcement is made. It might even be that they accept that they'll get it wrong sometimes. Any of these reasons might very well justify the UK not implementing a similar feature, but I've never seen it addressed.

 

[Mojo]

I think Ascot and other 3rd rail stations are a slightly different case. I was under the impression that doors would not open on the side where the 3rd rail is because of the increased risk of death from falling down the cap (IE: being electrocuted by the 3rd rail).

London Underground still has a few stations where doors are opened on both sides; by nature of this there will be some customers crossing the side with the positive traction current rail.

 

[t_star2001uk]

Now a question: does the "doors close" system on modern stock only close doors on the side that the panel is? I ask, because on CDL fitted slam-door stock as I understand it the "door lock" controls locks both sides.

You are correct with CDL on hauled slam door stock. Modern DMUs and EMUs have a door close button that only relates to the side that the doors were released. It is not a one button closes all.

(NB: the above quote only relates to stock i have worked with)

 

[krus_aragon]

Would it be possible for the sign which informs you that "Your next station stop is Stockport" to say "Your next station stop is Stockport. Alight on the right hand side"

A possible point of confusion for people in rear-facing seats: their right is the train's left!. Though that system is used for audio announcements (along with light-up arrows to clarify) on Toronto's subway system.

 

[43096]

You are correct with CDL on hauled slam door stock. Modern DMUs and EMUs have a door close button that only relates to the side that the doors were released. It is not a one button closes all.

(NB: the above quote only relates to stock i have worked with)

Thanks!

 

[ComUtoR]

(NB: the above quote only relates to stock i have worked with)

What stock has that function ?

Of the 4 different EMUs that run on my network and the 1 that run previously, none have that function. I'd be interested to know why it is or isn't provided.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

Doors have only been released one side at Ascot for many years - certainly way before the fence was put up (which was done when the 10-car platform extensions were done). I think it dates back to when the Junipers were introduced.

Now a question: does the "doors close" system on modern stock only close doors on the side that the panel is? I ask, because on CDL fitted slam-door stock as I understand it the "door lock" controls locks both sides.

How time flies I said a few years ago but on reflection it is over 7 years since I regularly commuted between Feltham and Reading (actually Didcot parkway was the eventual destination)

In those days it was 450s

 

[tsr]

London Underground still has a few stations where doors are opened on both sides; by nature of this there will be some customers crossing the side with the positive traction current rail.

However, this is not permitted on Network Rail routes, and has not been for some considerable time.

Consider Guildford, Norwood Jn, Crystal Palace, etc. The doors on double-faced platform lines are always opened on the side without the third rail.

It has been known for certain TOCs to view it as an extremely serious offence to release doors on the wrong side at such locations, due to the risk involved. I’ve known it to contribute to dismissal on at least two occasions.

 

[Gathursty]

No mention of Ulverston or Sellafield.

Ulverston has a platform on both sides of the train.
Sellafield has a platform fenced off next to the track and opposite platform.

 

[Ken H]

No mention of Ulverston or Sellafield.

Ulverston has a platform on both sides of the train.
Sellafield has a platform fenced off next to the track and opposite platform.

or Derby Platform 5

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Despite it being on a heritage railway, the doors on Bluebell Line services both service platforms 4 and 5 at Horstead Keynes. When BR was running the show prior to the lines closure, the line was served by EMUs which does make me wonder how they got around it.

Unless Platform 5 was soley used for Bluebell services and BR used platforms 1 and 2 with platforms 3 and 4 being out of use?

 

[vlad]

or Derby Platform 5

If you mean the bay, that no longer exists (although I always thought it was odd that doors were opened the side that didn't have a roof - I suppose they had their reasons).

If you mean the present platform 5, there's only a platform on the one side so it's obvious the doors would be opened on that side.

 

[Ken H]

If you mean the bay, that no longer exists (although I always thought it was odd that doors were opened the side that didn't have a roof - I suppose they had their reasons).

If you mean the present platform 5, there's only a platform on the one side so it's obvious the doors would be opened on that side.

Apologies. not been to Derby for a couple of years.

 

[hooverboy]

London Underground still has a few stations where doors are opened on both sides; by nature of this there will be some customers crossing the side with the positive traction current rail.

the trick is don't open both sets of doors similtaneously.
open alighting side doors first..wait 20 seconds, then embarkation side.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

On some occasions, I have wanted to change at Finsbury Park off a semi-fast Kings Cross service, onto the xx52 service at FPK through to Farringdon or other core stations. I’ve seen the platform changed from 2 to 4 at very short notice. Mindful of this possibility, I now stand near the staircase. Posters on this thread are ignoring the massive inconvenience such a late change gives to a wheelchair user. There are no lifts to the connecting subway, meaning unless the core service is held for a suitable interval, such users will DEFINITELY miss the connection !

 

[bluegoblin7]

the trick is don't open both sets of doors similtaneously.
open alighting side doors first..wait 20 seconds, then embarkation side.

Whilst that may work* at places such as White City, Loughton or Golders Green - where trains terminate and have clearly defined directional platforms - it isn't universal. Barking (District line only) and Morden both have releases on both sides without an explicit alighting or boarding side.

Of course, there are other stations (Cockfosters, Uxbridge) where only one side is used, much like Finsbury Park, due to there not being the provision of OPO (One Person Operation; DOO in mainline parlance) equipment.

(*Specifically, the alighting doors will generally be opened on arrival. Those doors will then be closed and the boarding side opened with a suitable PA for any passengers who have not yet alighted. At these locations, generally, both sets won't be open at once. If a train is running through the middle platform only the appropriate side will be opened)

 

[30907]

Despite it being on a heritage railway, the doors on Bluebell Line services both service platforms 4 and 5 at Horstead Keynes. When BR was running the show prior to the lines closure, the line was served by EMUs which does make me wonder how they got around it.

Unless Platform 5 was soley used for Bluebell services and BR used platforms 1 and 2 with platforms 3 and 4 being out of use?

Bluebell line stock isn't fitted with CDL
Seriously, back in 1962 everything was slam-door and you couldn't prevent people using both sides. Only Platform 2 was electrified, 1 having been taken out of use pre-WW2.

 

[t_star2001uk]

What stock has that function ?

Of the 4 different EMUs that run on my network and the 1 that run previously, none have that function. I'd be interested to know why it is or isn't provided.

I wouldnt know. If i hadnt have put that at the bottom of the post there would have been a pedant on here who can name a piece of rolling stock somewhere in the world that has that function...

 

[ComUtoR]

I wouldnt know.

Oh. Apologies. I thought you said you worked with stock that had a door close for each specific side.

 

[Bikeman78]

It happens on LU, but it’s far from ideal. The extra length of a mainline train would make it even less ideal. As you say, nice in theory, but a pain in practice.

What happened at Norwood Junction back in the days of EPB units? Presumably platform staff on both sides stood next to whichever brake van the guard was in.

 

[swt_passenger]

If you mean the bay, that no longer exists (although I always thought it was odd that doors were opened the side that didn't have a roof - I suppose they had their reasons).

It was to do with the guard’s view of the departure signal wasn’t it? But academic now the platform has been removed

 

[t_star2001uk]

Oh. Apologies. I thought you said you worked with stock that had a door close for each specific side.

I must have misunderstood. I thought the question was about 1 button too close all doors on modern stock. I simply wanted to convey that if you release doors on one side, the door close on the other side will not close them. I meant to put DMUs instead of EMUs as well...