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Why do some passengers not get how annoying it is to play music and videos out loud?

BRX

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The Telegraph have picked up on this now - there's an article today that isn't behind a paywall:

The Sorry State of British Train Etiquette...
A rail watchdog has suggested issuing ‘yellow cards’ to passengers travelling without a ticket. Here are some other bookable misdeeds.


That's behind a paywall but you can read it here:

 
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trainophile

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I would add leaving litter around and chucking it on the floor to that list.

Today I am in coach U on an Edinburgh to Euston Avanti, and a guy across the aisle had a 15 minute phone conversation, but so quietly that it wasn’t at all intrusive. It can be done!
 

Halwynd

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I can’t seem to get the 78 comments to load on that article. Is that paywalled even though I could read the article kindly posted by @BRX?

Not for me, I can read both article and comments without having to log in. The Telegraph is strange, just before Christmas everything seemed to be paywalled for a couple of weeks, but now it isn't - not for me anyway.
 

BazingaTribe

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The Telegraph have picked up on this now - there's an article today that isn't behind a paywall:

The Sorry State of British Train Etiquette...
A rail watchdog has suggested issuing ‘yellow cards’ to passengers travelling without a ticket. Here are some other bookable misdeeds.


Reads like a cut-price Victor Meldrew. Not something anyone would take seriously, even as a humour piece. The word 'butthurt' comes to mind. Worse still, he complains about railway pettiness then indulges in some of his own.

There are some good points, but some of them are really just that he evidently doesn't like to be around people in the wild like the vlogger (who is presumably talking into her phone) or the unhappy family. I put my bags on the seat but I will happily move them if necessary. If he'd done a more sober article on the ins and outs of social behaviour and recognised why these things happen and what a reasonable solution might be (like I've walked halfway across town with an overnight bag, I'm going to put it down on a seat if there is plenty of room and will move it if necessary; I don't need a therapist, just a better suitcase, which I did actually buy at Christmas), it might be easier to grasp. But this just fails as both a serious discussion article and a piece of entertaining writing, and will make no impact whatsoever on the real offenders.

He comes across like that woman who demanded TOCs stop people eating on trains a few years ago to try and curb childhood obesity by not setting a bad example -- a bit oblivious to everyone's life and needs but his own.

Which is a shame, because we need someone to rival Anna Sewell with her portrayal of cruelty to animals or Upton Sinclair's indictment of the meat-packing industry to actually shame people into doing the right thing and to highlight some of the railway ticketing injustices. They just don't make journalists like they used to, I guess :(.
 
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CaptainHaddock

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I wonder if anyone who gets annoyed by the anti-social behaviour of others on trains has come across the "let them" theory that's been attracting attention of late? Essential the principle is that, rather than choosing to get wound up, you simply let other people behave however they like and don't let it get to you. There's a bit more on it on this opinion piece from The Guardian.

 

Meerkat

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I wonder if anyone who gets annoyed by the anti-social behaviour of others on trains has come across the "let them" theory that's been attracting attention of late? Essential the principle is that, rather than choosing to get wound up, you simply let other people behave however they like and don't let it get to you. There's a bit more on it on this opinion piece from The Guardian.

That’s just weakness that will lead to things getting worse and worse.
 

bramling

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That’s just weakness that will lead to things getting worse and worse.

Absolutely. I’m sure the whole “what’s anyone going to do?” attitude that arose during the Covid response hasn’t helped with all this, as it allowed people the freedom to test the boundaries, and having found they could get away with certain stuff have continued it, and no doubt in some cases tested the boundaries further.
 

CaptainHaddock

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That’s just weakness that will lead to things getting worse and worse.
Well done on completely missing the point i'm making. If you'd bothered to click on the article I linked to you'd realise it's a theory that turns the situation on its head and places you in control.

The "let them" theory is nothing new; essentially it's the principle of stoicism which has been around for hundreds of years. What it boils down to is that you are not responsible for the behaviour of others but you are in control of how you react to it. So if someone on your train is playing loud music or having a very loud conversation you have a choice. You can either get wound up by it or you can choose to not let it bother you. I've been practicing the latter option over the past week or so and have found it surprisingly liberating!
 

BeijingDave

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I wonder if anyone who gets annoyed by the anti-social behaviour of others on trains has come across the "let them" theory that's been attracting attention of late? Essential the principle is that, rather than choosing to get wound up, you simply let other people behave however they like and don't let it get to you. There's a bit more on it on this opinion piece from The Guardian.

That's essentially what I do nowadays, and Bose QuietComfort noise cancelling headphones are a great help.

120 quid, mind.

Occasionally noise seeps through. Most recently, a group of shouting, out-of-control children on a neighbouring table with a Spanish couple. I was quite surprised, because Mediterraneans tend to have less unruly kids than Brits. I moved to another carriage, but happened to see the train manager on the way and complained that they were "disturbing everyone in the carriage". I looked back to see him reprimanding them. Good on him!
 

BazingaTribe

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Well done on completely missing the point i'm making. If you'd bothered to click on the article I linked to you'd realise it's a theory that turns the situation on its head and places you in control.

The "let them" theory is nothing new; essentially it's the principle of stoicism which has been around for hundreds of years. What it boils down to is that you are not responsible for the behaviour of others but you are in control of how you react to it. So if someone on your train is playing loud music or having a very loud conversation you have a choice. You can either get wound up by it or you can choose to not let it bother you. I've been practicing the latter option over the past week or so and have found it surprisingly liberating!

It can work for some things (such as crying children or people having phone calls, which, let's face it, are going to happen in any public place) but on a wider social level it just encouraged anti-social behaviour. There's a line that can be drawn -- one should not be as prickly as the guy in the Torygraph article, but on the other hand if you just let some actual problems go, you end up with a free-for-all that suits no-one. The idea legitimises selfishness and the idea that your needs for audible entertainment trump everyone else's.

There was a really good transport campaign a few years ago, roundabout the beginning of the pandemic, which encouraged people to be considerate towards disabled travellers and to recognise that even if people don't look disabled, many of us are. (I made my own situation better by breaking my ankle and having to use a walking stick, so I do now 'look' disabled, but I've always been autistic and jumped on the sunflower lanyards when they became a thing.) They still exist in some parts of the transport network but not to the same degree as in early 2020. But that kind of campaign educated people as to the struggles some people face when travelling and asked them to look out for people who may not necessarily look like they need help but actually need a little bit of space to navigate things. SWR (and I've heard other companies do this too) offer badges that ask people to offer a seat to the person wearing one.

While, yes, you can't control other people's behaviour, that doesn't mean we should just tolerate everything. It would mean we couldn't ask people not to litter or smoke in public places or offer their seat to those who need it (I should just be stoic and stand even though it causes me actual pain for most of my journey? It almost happened once -- I got a stink-eye from someone I asked to move from a jump-seat once but she moved). The topic of the thread isn't crying babies or people having phone calls at a reasonable volume -- it's people actively doing the audible equivalent of littering.

And I think the transport companies have a definite right to try to change that behaviour back to how people behaved before the pandemic.
 

Beebman

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Jeremy Vine has just retweeted somebody called Tracey (with 10K followers) who posted the following about confronting a phone user on a train:
https://x.com/April_1970s/status/1885309557364449640

I’ve just asked a woman on a train carriage full of people to either lower the volume on her phone or wear headphones. Lady: I can have it as loud as I like. Me : Well, no one wants to hear it. Lady: I’m going to give you a slap. I’m now waiting for my slap. And this is why people don’t confront other people. Because there’s a threat of violence.

There then follows a thread which currently has 653 replies (and counting!) so IMO that's quite indicative of a strong feeling about the issue here in the UK.
 

bramling

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Jeremy Vine has just retweeted somebody called Tracey (with 10K followers) who posted the following about confronting a phone user on a train:
https://x.com/April_1970s/status/1885309557364449640



There then follows a thread which currently has 653 replies (and counting!) so IMO that's quite indicative of a strong feeling about the issue here in the UK.

Unfortunately there’s an element of sizing-up with this sort of thing. Bet she wouldn’t have threatened the slap if the person who asked her to turn it down was of rugby-player build.
 

Krokodil

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Highlights from the Twitter replies:
I am a nurse in a GP surgery and yesterday a patient played her daughter’s iPad at full volume in the waiting room. I asked her to turn it down and she reported me to practice management for being unprofessional as her daughter has autism.
My sister had the same thing. Asked some older teenagers to turn music down or use headphones, was then assaulted as she went to get off train at her stop, ended up still on train with the teens. No one helped. Station staff didn’t believe her - had to call police herself
Once heard someone gobbing of about their upcoming weekend. They were going to get the Eurostar from Euston to France for the weekend

I particularly enjoyed this one:
Remembered about a girl on bus with headphones so we only got one side of conversation. "I'm pregnant" pause "I think its Tom's" pause "could be his brother Phil's as I've slept with both" Everyone else on the bus looking around thinking did I hear that right? No embarrassment

This has to be the winner:
Currently on a beach in India , Russian family of 4 right next to us all on phones at full volume watching social media and playing games ; me Googling Ukrainian National anthem to play at full volume
 

MrJeeves

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This has to be the winner:
On a GA service a few weeks ago there was myself and one other passenger. Said passenger seemed to be playing some rap music through a Bluetooth speaker.

I rebutted with Aqua's Barbie Girl, and sure enough it got headphones to be used... :lol:
 

Bletchleyite

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Jeremy Vine has just retweeted somebody called Tracey (with 10K followers) who posted the following about confronting a phone user on a train:
https://x.com/April_1970s/status/1885309557364449640

There then follows a thread which currently has 653 replies (and counting!) so IMO that's quite indicative of a strong feeling about the issue here in the UK.

Curiously I've had more abuse from women over this than men. Men usually just seem to grunt then turn it down, as if they mostly don't realise they are bothering people. Women seem to take it very personally.
 

Bletchleyite

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On a GA service a few weeks ago there was myself and one other passenger. Said passenger seemed to be playing some rap music through a Bluetooth speaker.

I rebutted with Aqua's Barbie Girl, and sure enough it got headphones to be used... :lol:

I'm so against the practice that I haven't done anything like this, but one day I'll have the guts and blast out Classic FM* on high volume until it stops :)

* The only radio station you seem to be able to pick up absolutely anywhere.
 

BazingaTribe

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Jeremy Vine has just retweeted somebody called Tracey (with 10K followers) who posted the following about confronting a phone user on a train:
https://x.com/April_1970s/status/1885309557364449640



There then follows a thread which currently has 653 replies (and counting!) so IMO that's quite indicative of a strong feeling about the issue here in the UK.
Yup. I had a guy on a bus do it yesterday and he not only looked like he could have knifed me, he also swaggered about like he owned the place and had a loud conversation with his girlfriend who was stood at the front of the bus because she had a child in a pushchair. It seemed a bit like a power-play on his part -- if they're together, why sit rows away from your partner anyway?

Sadly Diana Trent stayed in her shell this time :(. I had forgotten to take my meds anyway so was a bit brittle, but ultimately it comes down to where you are in the pecking order -- and how much you can get away with threatening another person, like some women think they can slap men because of historical power imbalances and media indoctrination.
 

Bletchleyite

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Unfortunately there’s an element of sizing-up with this sort of thing. Bet she wouldn’t have threatened the slap if the person who asked her to turn it down was of rugby-player build.

I am of that size and shape and have had abuse from slight women on this subject. I don't think directly threatened with violence, but certainly abused.

Men less so, but I think the sort of men who would do this sort of thing tend to be the sort who would go with the old "you never hit a woman", but might think I might try on them. In actual fact the last time I hit anyone I was aged about 11, but they don't know that.
 

BazingaTribe

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I am of that size and shape and have had abuse from slight women on this subject. I don't think directly threatened with violence, but certainly abused.
It's because women have been told for a long time now that due to the historical power imbalances in the past, it's ok to abuse men who are annoying or upsetting them. While things are shifting towards true equality in this regard, established habits die hard.

If Jeremy Vine had threatened to slap the woman, it would have ended incredibly badly for him.

Even in my own perception, watching something like Men Behaving Badly where the female characters are able to do things to male characters that would be outrageous for male characters to do to female characters has an impact. It's one of those 'wouldn't be made today' things -- like, in fact, Diana Trent might not be written as she was back then -- but it lingers in public consciousness nonetheless.

Maybe we'll eventually reach a point where not only will there be true equality between genders but also where people learn that respecting other people's rights and dignities gets them much more respect for their own. I really really hate to sound like my parents on this but what the heck -- what comes around goes around, and society would be way better off if we could extend thinking about what's convenient and comfortable for us into what's convenient and comfortable for other people. Everyone wants everything catered towards them with no perception of how that means sometimes their rights have to take a backseat to someone else's, and it just ends up in the mess we've created.

And with that I'll put Victoria Meldrew back in her box and go and sort out the rest of my day :D.
 

bramling

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I remember David Moyes, then manager of Sunderland, getting into bother for making comments along these lines.

I see no issue with replying with “go ahead, slap me, and see what happens”, though. One has to at least look like being prepared to carry through with it though.
 

Elon Bust

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Well done on completely missing the point i'm making. If you'd bothered to click on the article I linked to you'd realise it's a theory that turns the situation on its head and places you in control.

The "let them" theory is nothing new; essentially it's the principle of stoicism which has been around for hundreds of years. What it boils down to is that you are not responsible for the behaviour of others but you are in control of how you react to it. So if someone on your train is playing loud music or having a very loud conversation you have a choice. You can either get wound up by it or you can choose to not let it bother you. I've been practicing the latter option over the past week or so and have found it surprisingly liberating!

But it didn't used to be like this. Travelling on the train used to be lovely. It was just the sound of people talking and nothing more.

I cannot concentrate on reading something if I can hear that awful, tinny sound of someone scrolling through reels or someone having a phone call on speakerphone.

It does bother me and I make no apologies for that. Travelling on a train has got a lot worse since the middle of the last decade and we should not shrug our shoulders and accept that state of affairs. We've had peaceful train travel for over a hundred years and chaotic, noisy train travel for less than ten.
 

Bletchleyite

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But it didn't used to be like this. Travelling on the train used to be lovely. It was just the sound of people talking and nothing more.

I cannot concentrate on reading something if I can hear that awful, tinny sound of someone scrolling through reels or someone having a phone call on speakerphone.

It does bother me and I make no apologies for that. Travelling on a train has got a lot worse since the middle of the last decade and we should not shrug our shoulders and accept that state of affairs. We've had peaceful train travel for over a hundred years and chaotic, noisy train travel for less than ten.

I've had people say "but a boombox would be far worse".

Thing is it wouldn't. The music might not be to my preference, but music played on proper equipment with the right level of bass just isn't as annoying. A Bluetooth speaker would even be better than the phone itself.
 

Krokodil

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Another day, another man who rather than sheepishly turn it off or insert headphones decided to argue the toss. "I've checked your terms and conditions and it doesn't say I must wear headphones". Byelaw 7, mate. "'To the annoyance of any other person', there's only one person sat over there". I might be the guard but believe it or not I am actually a person too, and it is too my annoyance.

Still, he didn't just swear at me so that's a plus. Seriously, if any of you are ever on a train where a member of staff intervenes to deal with antisocial behaviour, please remember to thank them. They might then be inclined to do it more often.
 

bramling

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Another day, another man who rather than sheepishly turn it off or insert headphones decided to argue the toss. "I've checked your terms and conditions and it doesn't say I must wear headphones". Byelaw 7, mate. "'To the annoyance of any other person', there's only one person sat over there". I might be the guard but believe it or not I am actually a person too, and it is too my annoyance.

Pretty depressing that someone feels it’s okay to be annoying if it isn’t mentioned in some kind of terms and conditions, or if it’s only annoying one other person. About par for the course nowadays I guess.
 

35B

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I've had people say "but a boombox would be far worse".

Thing is it wouldn't. The music might not be to my preference, but music played on proper equipment with the right level of bass just isn't as annoying. A Bluetooth speaker would even be better than the phone itself.
Opinions vary. I would see a device - speaker, boombox - as worse than the use of the original phone simply because it shows intent rather than carelessness. None are acceptable.
 

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