Why don't Chiltern Railways check tickets on trains?

[jacksonbang]

Moderator note: Split from

Incorrect fare, what charge am I facing here and should I pay for a solicitor.

Ill keep it brief as I can. I bought a ticket on the Trainline app from Amersham to Marylebone but got on the train sooner, a fare difference if £6.40. 1 way ticket. On the way out I was pulled aside. I gave him my details and told him what I had done. He told me to expect a letter and that they...

www.railforums.co.uk

. That is the effect Chiltern wish to achieve.

Do you think? Why not then, for example, check tickets on a train?

 

[Hadders]

Do you think? Why not then, for example, check tickets on a train?

Checking every ticket on every train is simply not feasible or cost effective.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Do you think? Why not then, for example, check tickets on a train?

It relies on honesty. A bit like saying "why don't Tesco strip search everyone when they leave the store" they rely on people honestly paying for things. I don't think people should only pay train fares when their tickets are checked

 

[AlterEgo]

Do you think? Why not then, for example, check tickets on a train?

Because it’s not practical and any fares collection system will be “leaky”. Deterrence is part of that.

 

[jacksonbang]

Because it’s not practical and any fares collection system will be “leaky”. Deterrence is part of that.

Odd. Most public transport systems don't seem to have such massive issues collecting fares. If it's not practical, why do it at all?

It relies on honesty. A bit like saying "why don't Tesco strip search everyone when they leave the store" they rely on people honestly paying for things. I don't think people should only pay train fares when their tickets are checked

Ridiculous. It's not like that at all. Tesco have systems in place for customers to pay. They have members of staff to help them pay. They have visible security to deter not paying. The current system is more like Tesco having their staff hiding in the back then occasionally running after those leaving without paying then asking them if they've done it before.

 

[spag23]

Tesco have systems in place for customers to pay.

I believe the Railways have more systems in place for customers to pay than Tesco does. Ticket offices, vending machines and the internet. And if none of these is working, there's a fourth option of paying on the train. Or (fifth) at the destination.

 

[30907]

Odd. Most public transport systems don't seem to have such massive issues collecting fares.

Really? Fare evasion on public transport is a problem all across Western Europe (and I suspect further East but have no evidence) - perhaps least on vehicles where the driver issues all tickets. Google "Schwarzfahren" for example....

 

[Haywain]

Ridiculous. It's not like that at all. Tesco have systems in place for customers to pay. They have members of staff to help them pay. They have visible security to deter not paying.

And yet, Tesco still have a major problem with people not paying, such that it's increasingly common to find goods on their shelves with security tags on them.

 

[MotCO]

And yet, Tesco still have a major problem with people not paying, such that it's increasingly common to find goods on their shelves with aecuritytags on them.

Maybe seats on trains should have a security tag, and you can only access the seat if your ticket unlocks the security tag

 

[RailWonderer]

Many reasons. If station stops are close together the guard has to focus on door release and stepping off and back on. When stations are further apart, it could be the guard is busy helping other passengers and sometimes the trains are too busy with too many standees in the aisle to even get through the train. Some guards in the peaks won't bother as most passengers then tend to buy their tickets. I've seen a lot more ticket checking off peak with students and other shiftier travellers who are more likely to take their chances. Chiltern are no different to other operators in that respect. After years of these discussions on the forum no one operator is more zealous with on board checks than another, because the same reasons apply everywhere regarding ticket checks*

*Unless dedicated revenue inspectors are deployed, which most often happens on DOO routes, in which case, they are very efficient and predominantly circulate on off peak trains.

 

[AlterEgo]

Odd. Most public transport systems don't seem to have such massive issues collecting fares.

Yes they do. Why do you think they don’t?

 

[Route115?]

Chiltern relies on barriers at major stations. This mostly works but is not universally effective. I reckon that a team of ticket inspectors would be cost effective (they used to be called Customer Service Inspectors). That would cost money and right now it is all about saving costs even if there is a bigger hit on revenue. The only time my ticket has been checked on train in the last year (and I do at least one round trip per week) was for a survey.

 

[Hadders]

We see lots of cases in the Disputes & Prosecutions section of the forum involving Chiltern so they are active out there. Remember that checking tickets onboard isn't the only way of checking tickets. Increasingly we are seeing investigations into online ticket purchasing history - for example Wembley Stadium to Marylebone. We've also seen other train companies send out letters to people purchasing railcard discounted tickets where the person is not entitled to that railcard. I expect these sort of investigations will become more commonplace.

 

[skyhigh]

We see lots of cases in the Disputes & Prosecutions section of the forum involving Chiltern so they are active out there.

This is the key thing. There are plenty of threads where Chiltern are involved, and it's usually similar routes.

What happens at my TOC is that the DfT requires ticketless travel surveys to be completed on each route. This is done by people who do not sell tickets, issue PFNs or reports. They simply work out a % of people who travel who don't have a valid ticket. This then gets fed to the revenue team and the management direct additional checks on the routes with the highest levels of ticketless travel. Reports from staff about certain problems are also considered in planning deployments.

Essentially what I'm getting at is the revenue teams are busy and active, but if the only route you use is one with a low percentage of ticketless travel then you may never see revenue teams out and assume they aren't.

 

[LowLevel]

Checking tickets on trains works well on guard operated trains, with the exception of busy urban working.

Chiltern south of Banbury has been mostly but not entirely driver only operated for the last 30 years - if you've already got revenue guards as part of your operating model you tend to find that the whole customer service and revenue operation is organised as part of that.

If you haven't then occasional on board spot checks and station blocks tend to be the norm.

Chiltern had an unusual system to suit their operating circumstances whereby a small number of their revenue protection inspectors were also qualified train guards but I suspect that has lapsed now with the demise of the West Ealing trains and the class 121.