Why is 55 002 a static exhibit?

[trebor79]

As per title. As far as I know it's complete and is actually in full working order, so why is it stuffed and mounted? Particularly when all of the other preserved deltics are currently either awaiting repair or have issues such as only 1 operational power unit?

Many years ago it was a static exhibit at the museum and heritage line I volunteered at. I had a sit in the cab and explored the engine room. One of the paid staff was alleged to have gone one further on a day there was nobody else on site, dragged it out of the shed, fired it up and gone for a trundle...

 

[randyrippley]

Perhaps they don't want it to end up broken like all the rest?

 

[xotGD]

Schrodinger's Deltic.

It is both operational and not operational at the same time.

A summer season on the North Yorkshire Moors would be a very nice post-Covid boost.

 

[alexl92]

002 is owned by the NRM. The NRM don't like people actually *using* their operational diesels because then they have to spend money on them (shock horror) instead of pouring it into the Flying Moneypit.

In terms of my interests I'm probably 80% Steam, 20% diesel but I think the NRM's attitude to their diesel fleet is a mess. The way D200 was(n't) looked after, hauling 41001 back in to be stuffed and mounted, etc etc.

 

[theblackwatch]

Only one of KOYLI's power units is operational. 55019 hasn't got any issues - it was due to go on a grand tour of 6 or 7 lines last year. The only thing that stopped it was the COVID situation, it had even departed Barrow Hill for Chinnor, going via Midland Road for tyre turning, but the events saw it have to return to Barrow Hill.

 

[50039]

I seem to recall reading that no Deltic power unit has had a major overhaul in preservation, and presumably the skills to do so are being lost... which begs the question of how much longer can any of the operational ones last? So having KOYLI with miles available might be beneficial in years to come...

 

[Trackman]

I seem to recall reading that no Deltic power unit has had a major overhaul in preservation, and presumably the skills to do so are being lost... which begs the question of how much longer can any of the operational ones last? So having KOYLI with miles available might be beneficial in years to come...

I think one of 55016's was stripped totally after the collector drum fire, but that's about it.
Look at D200, it's completely knackered - Power unit bearings, cracked bogie and bits missing. If it hadn't gone walkabout, none of this would have happened. But what do you do? Keep it safely secure tucked up in bed, or let it out for people to enjoy? One thing is for sure no insurance company would not touch any power unit insurance with a barge pole.
You could have a balance, like with KOLYI with limited engine hours, but that didn't work as you cannot factor in random engine failures.

 

[TheBeard]

I think it should have a limited, prestigious, limited Farewell tour,raising money for nrm. Just a few expensive trips

 

[D365]

Schrodinger's Deltic.

It is both operational and not operational at the same time.

I had a Deltic "driver experience" aboard 022 in 2016. Only one of the engines was in service. So this rings true even for the serviceable locomotives!

 

[randyrippley]

I seem to recall reading that no Deltic power unit has had a major overhaul in preservation, and presumably the skills to do so are being lost... which begs the question of how much longer can any of the operational ones last? So having KOYLI with miles available might be beneficial in years to come...

There's a marine diesel company in or around Colchester who have a bunch of ex-Paxman employees who can still repair them

Someone posted a link a few months back

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I seem to recall reading that no Deltic power unit has had a major overhaul in preservation, and presumably the skills to do so are being lost... which begs the question of how much longer can any of the operational ones last? So having KOYLI with miles available might be beneficial in years to come...

The DPS are currently looking at how to have their power units completely overhauled with the aim of re-setting the hours clock on them. It's been discussed in recent issues of their magazine, Deltic Deadline.

 

[Journeyman]

There's hardly a shortage of working Deltics, is there?

 

[Richard Scott]

I had a Deltic "driver experience" aboard 022 in 2016. Only one of the engines was in service. So this rings true even for the serviceable locomotives!

That's probably because two engines are totally unnecessary and make the loco more of a handful for novice drivers. Some people find a 37 hard enough let alone a temperamental loco like a Deltic.

 

[D365]

That's probably because two engines are totally unnecessary and make the loco more of a handful for novice drivers. Some people find a 37 hard enough let alone a temperamental loco like a Deltic.

There is that, but I was told at the time that the second engine was out of commission anyway.

 

[50039]

The DPS are currently looking at how to have their power units completely overhauled with the aim of re-setting the hours clock on them. It's been discussed in recent issues of their magazine, Deltic Deadline.

That’s good to know
I really must get round to joining - been meaning to do it for ages

That's probably because two engines are totally unnecessary and make the loco more of a handful for novice drivers. Some people find a 37 hard enough let alone a temperamental loco like a Deltic.

I drove 19 last year on one engine - pretty sure they were alternating which engine was being used across different days, to balance the hours on each one.

for me, I think we have had a golden period of diesel preservation, but I worry for the future of super-complex machines like the Deltics.. so - getting back to 55002 - whilst it’s a shame that it’s stuck in a museum - at least we know there is one with mileage left in it - which might be a real benefit if others have to be retired like 16

 

[trebor79]

That's probably because two engines are totally unnecessary and make the loco more of a handful for novice drivers. Some people find a 37 hard enough let alone a temperamental loco like a Deltic.

There is that, but I was told at the time that the second engine was out of commission anyway.

Doesn't one engine remain at idle until the loco reaches a speed of 40mph or something too? Which isn't likely on a preserved line, so you'd end up with one engine idling all day, which as we know leads to exhaust fires.

 

[L401CJF]

Surely even if both engines do work its preferable to use only one where possible if you're only trundling along at 25mph

I dread to imagine the fuel economy of a deltic running on one engine letalone 2!

 

[Trackman]

Doesn't one engine remain at idle until the loco reaches a speed of 40mph or something too? Which isn't likely on a preserved line, so you'd end up with one engine idling all day, which as we know leads to exhaust fires.

I think you're right, thought it was about 35mph, but near enough 40mph. I think it depends on how many Amps it's drawing.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

There's hardly a shortage of working Deltics, is there?

Engines or locomotives ? The last engines have been removed from service with the Royal Navy, and there can be little more than a handful of Deltic engines in service in private applications, such as emergency pumping and power generation.

There's a marine diesel company in or around Colchester who have a bunch of ex-Paxman employees who can still repair them

Someone posted a link a few months back

Knowledge is only part of the issue, being able to source replacement parts for the experienced engineers to fit/use is now incredibly difficult. Can you get castings off the shelf or manufactured - who holds the patterns needed for casting replacement components, for instance ?

 

[4SubAsociation]

There's a marine diesel company in or around Colchester who have a bunch of ex-Paxman employees who can still repair them

Someone posted a link a few months back

Yes i do know who you are reffering to. A friend of mine works for them. They also looked after East Midlands Trains/Railways HSTs before they went to MTU versions. It was MAN colchester (which is closing when i last looked)

80 jobs to go as bosses plan to shut down historic factory after 150 years

MANUFACTURING at an historic factory is set to stop with 80 jobs put at risk.

www.gazette-news.co.uk

 

[trebor79]

I wonder if we might eventually end up in a situation where there are no preserved diesels capable of operating, as engines wear out or fail and there are no longer parts or skills to repair them?
Steam locomotives of course are by and large easier to look after and keep running from that POV, as you can make most parts with a lathe and a milling machine, the tolerances are less exacting, and the castings aren't as intricate as for a diesel engine so its feasible to make new patterns.

 

[43096]

Yes i do know who you are reffering to. A friend of mine works for them. They also looked after East Midlands Trains/Railways HSTs before they went to MTU versions. It was MAN colchester (which is closing when i last looked)

80 jobs to go as bosses plan to shut down historic factory after 150 years

MANUFACTURING at an historic factory is set to stop with 80 jobs put at risk.

www.gazette-news.co.uk

No, you are confused, so evidently don't know what is being referred to!

The VP185s in the Midland power cars were overhauled by MAN at Colchester, which is the former Paxman. The "ex-Paxman" in the post you replied to is a giveaway that it is not MAN that is being referred to.

 

[randyrippley]

Yes i do know who you are reffering to. A friend of mine works for them. They also looked after East Midlands Trains/Railways HSTs before they went to MTU versions. It was MAN colchester (which is closing when i last looked)

80 jobs to go as bosses plan to shut down historic factory after 150 years

MANUFACTURING at an historic factory is set to stop with 80 jobs put at risk.

www.gazette-news.co.uk

No, not MAN

==edit==
Bartech Marine

Bartech Marine Engineering - Safety Through Mechanical Excellence

Specialist marine engineering and heavy diesel services to the Oil & Gas, Marine, Windfarm, Power Generation & Locomotive industries since 1987.

bartechmarine.com

service Napier / Mirrlees / Paxman and others

 

[43096]

No, not MAN
another company I can't remember the name of

Eurotex?
About Eurotex - Eurotex International (eurotex-intl.com)

 

[randyrippley]

Eurotex?
About Eurotex - Eurotex International (eurotex-intl.com)

No, Bartech (see my last post, revised)
They service Mirrlees units as well if anyone wants to build a class 30

 

[xotGD]

No, Bartech (see my last post, revised)
They service Mirrlees units as well if anyone wants to build a class 30

If you can source a power unit, the rest of the loco shouldn't be a problem!

 

[Richard Scott]

I think you're right, thought it was about 35mph, but near enough 40mph. I think it depends on how many Amps it's drawing.

I did ask a driver once (think there is another thread somewhere with all this in) and said it was from 'notch' 6 on power controller and that was roughly about 25mph when this could be obtained. Can't remember if someone refuted this or not.

 

[DB]

The NRM kicked out its resident diesel group a couple of years ago, and later also gave the 125 group a kicking. Both groups were very capable and restored NRM locos to working order.

It seems to be the case that they had a change of policy and decided that they weren't interestes in operational diesels, other than a small one or two to run up and down the yard.

Many people were very unimpressed with the way the NRM behaved over this.

I think one of 55016's was stripped totally after the collector drum fire, but that's about it.
Look at D200, it's completely knackered - Power unit bearings, cracked bogie and bits missing. If it hadn't gone walkabout, none of this would have happened. But what do you do? Keep it safely secure tucked up in bed, or let it out for people to enjoy? One thing is for sure no insurance company would not touch any power unit insurance with a barge pole.
You could have a balance, like with KOLYI with limited engine hours, but that didn't work as you cannot factor in random engine failures.

From what I understand, D200 needs a new main bearing in the aux generator, and could be restored to working order relatively easily, if it was desired.

 

[Cowley]

I did ask a driver once (think there is another thread somewhere with all this in) and said it was from 'notch' 6 on power controller and that was roughly about 25mph when this could be obtained. Can't remember if someone refuted this or not.

I must admit that I thought it was around 25mph if driven in a certain way too Richard.
I’m sure I’ve experienced that on the odd preserved railway run?

 

[harz99]

The NRM kicked out its resident diesel group a couple of years ago, and later also gave the 125 group a kicking. Both groups were very capable and restored NRM locos to working order.

It seems to be the case that they had a change of policy and decided that they weren't interestes in operational diesels, other than a small one or two to run up and down the yard.

Many people were very unimpressed with the way the NRM behaved over this.

That's Science Museum Group for you, did similar at Locomotion Shildon with the live steam disappearing, and being replaced on the brake van shuttle by an 03 or 08 shunter, or pre covid by a 142 unit.