Wifi on trains?

[Elecman]

Not in this case, however. In a nutshell BR were able to bypass the planning process because the towers were replacing existing sites and were to be used for purely operational purposes.

Not at all the vast majority of GSMR mast sites are no where near old CSR/ NRN sites, as there are far more GSMR masts than old system sites.
Permitted Developement rights allow for NR to erect on its own land anything it needs for the operation of the railway.

 

[najaB]

Not at all the vast majority of GSMR mast sites are no where near old CSR/ NRN sites, as there are far more GSMR masts than old system sites.

Sorry, I meant that GSMR sites were needed to replace CSR/NRN sites - not necessarily that there was a one-to-one geographic correspondence.

 

[HowardGWR]

The way around any of these supposed planning restrictions is surely to ensure that the railway operational services use the same facilities as could be used for pax internet use?

I found SWT internet on the 159s to be very good indeed, unlike all others I have tried, which were useless.

 

[E_Reeves]

The WiFi on VTWC seems to work quite well. It says it is free for first class customers, but I can't find anything stopping the standard class passengers logging in as well.

 

[powderedegg]

There were plans to upgrade the existing GSM network to 4g and lease the bandwidth back to the mobile network providers but this hasn't happened.

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[powderedegg]

Not in this case, however. In a nutshell BR were able to bypass the planning process because the towers were replacing existing sites and were to be used for purely operational purposes.

Just ask Jasper Carrott about it http://www.birminghampost.co.uk/news/local-news/carrott-take-mast-fight-commons-3974179

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[pemma]

The WiFi on VTWC seems to work quite well. It says it is free for first class customers, but I can't find anything stopping the standard class passengers logging in as well.

I heard one business director saying to another "Which standard class carriage has the free wi-fi?" just before booking seat reservations.

 

[trainmania100]

Theres supposed to be WiFi on the 387/2s, however been on them a few times and havent seen it on WiFi connect list

 

[HowardGWR]

I am using WiFi on a 159 right now. It's rammed but response is good. I just wonder though how many know it's available.

 

[swt_passenger]

I am using WiFi on a 159 right now. It's rammed but response is good. I just wonder though how many know it's available.

Aren't there stickers on the window pillars?

 

[Lemmy99uk]

You get what you pay for. 4G is better if you really need wi-fi.

4G!, 4G!

Chance would be a fine thing - we don't even get 3G in most of Cumbria.

 

[Class 66's]

I've always found Scotrail wifi to be excellent. Best that I've used. VTWC wifi was good a few years ago but I think it's go downhill since then.

I used Scotrail's Wifi while on holiday, and found it to be quite good, between Edinburgh and Tweedbank. Some of the more rural areas had very good service as well, however, I only have EMT wifi to compare it to. That was all payed, and it was cheaper to use my 3G for a quick check online, thant pay EMT for the same service.

 

[Smod]

Wifi on Chiltern mainline trains seems hit and miss. Often it works fine, but too often there's just no connection. In recent experience GWR seems more reliable.

 

[jon0844]

4G!, 4G!

Chance would be a fine thing - we don't even get 3G in most of Cumbria.

Forget 3G now. Vodafone and O2 failed to invest in 3G and paid the price, but is now going all in on 4G. At 800MHz, you should see massive improvements in the next year or two.

EE meanwhile, along with Three, which had pretty decent 3G coverage (relatively speaking) when I was last there a few years back, will arguably have even better coverage as its 800MHz coverage can be at a higher power.

Three may already have a lot of it covered with 4G (but only usable with the right handset) and EE will switch on its network hopefully before the end of the year. Again, you'll need the right handset with the right software, but what a difference it's going to make.

 

[dgl]

I suppose the problem with o2 is that they got an exclusive deal on the original iPhone which for some unknown reason did not support 3g and the fastest system it supported was EDGE. o2 had to spend money upgrading sites to EDGE rather than spending money on wider 3g coverage and the lack of this is shown.

Annoyingly on Portland if you live on the sode that faces Weymouth you get 3/4g but if you are anywhere on top GPRS is the best you'll get.

 

[Class455]

I thought the government said that WiFi was supposed to be fitted onto all trains by a certain date? (forgotten when exactly) Makes me wonder whether Southern will retrofit them on their 377's and 455's. I know SWT's new Class 707's will have wifi pre-installed, but will SWT put WiFi on their 455's?
I do remember that some of the 377/3's back in 2004/05 used to have on their doors a "T-Mobile Hotspot" sticker. Was that WiFi or something else?

 

[jon0844]

I suppose the problem with o2 is that they got an exclusive deal on the original iPhone which for some unknown reason did not support 3g and the fastest system it supported was EDGE. o2 had to spend money upgrading sites to EDGE rather than spending money on wider 3g coverage and the lack of this is shown.

Annoyingly on Portland if you live on the sode that faces Weymouth you get 3/4g but if you are anywhere on top GPRS is the best you'll get.

O2 tried to argue that EDGE was sufficiently fast not to require 3G, which Steve Jobs also mentioned at the launch. He of course knew damn well that while standing in front of us, they were already probably months in on development of the 3G model!

All the networks paid too much for 3G licenses, a mistake not made since (I assume they now collude in advance to make sure nobody gets carried away) and only T-Mobile and Three really spent money building networks.

When they teamed up to share sites, they became unbeatable. And of course, then Orange joined and they had even more sites. And EE was born, leaving EE (and Three) still enjoying vastly superior coverage and capacity (most sites were upgraded to carry more traffic because of 3G, while old VF/O2/Orange sites were using copper in many places).

Now Vodafone and O2 are working together and doing things properly, but being hindered by planning delays and issues running fibre to old sites still using copper or microwave links...

 

[najaB]

I suppose the problem with o2 is that they got an exclusive deal on the original iPhone which for some unknown reason did not support 3g and the fastest system it supported was EDGE. o2 had to spend money upgrading sites to EDGE rather than spending money on wider 3g coverage and the lack of this is shown.

Something doesn't sound right about the timeline there... I was on 3G with O2 when I had a Nokia N95.

 

[HowardGWR]

Aren't there stickers on the window pillars?

No there is nothing about it. Nor in the vestibule.

 

[mark-h]

I thought the government said that WiFi was supposed to be fitted onto all trains by a certain date?

Does anyone have a link for this. Is there any SLA or is it up to the TOCs?

When my home broadband is down I still have WiFi- just not useful WiFi that gives me access to the outside world- could a TOC count this as installing WiFi?

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Given all that jonmorris0844 has said I wonder whether in 5 or 10 years time anyone will think on-board wifi is worth bothering with. I'm old enough to remember BR getting payphones fitted to Inter-City trains: then mobiles came along...

 

[najaB]

I'm old enough to remember BR getting payphones fitted to Inter-City trains: then mobiles came along...

The difference there is that mobiles represented a completely different model of operation - they allowed you to make *and* receive calls. Even if the applications that people use change, it doesn't make a difference if it's the on train WiFi or 4/5G what customers want is the same - delivery of data packets. If the train network delivers enough packets, in a timely manner it will be useful.

 

[AM9]

The difference there is that mobiles represented a completely different model of operation - they allowed you to make *and* receive calls. Even if the applications that people use change, it doesn't make a difference if it's the on train WiFi or 4/5G what customers want is the same - delivery of data packets. If the train network delivers enough packets, in a timely manner it will be useful.

The problem with providing data is that consumption grows with capacity. The greater bandwidth accessible, the more bitrate-hungry applications will be used. Thus it will be impossible to deliver 'enough' packets for some, even if the railway was to become a wi-fi company that also moved people around.
It would be very different if a reasonable charge was made for data based on volume.

 

[jon0844]

Something doesn't sound right about the timeline there... I was on 3G with O2 when I had a Nokia N95.

All the networks had 3G but many had installed a pitiful amount of sites, and many with insufficient backhaul even for the demands of the day.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Given all that jonmorris0844 has said I wonder whether in 5 or 10 years time anyone will think on-board wifi is worth bothering with. I'm old enough to remember BR getting payphones fitted to Inter-City trains: then mobiles came along...

If Wi-Fi improves enough that it can handle more users, and can hand off better than now as you move around, there's no harm in having it. There will always be advantages with having the external connection on the outside of a train, with improved antennas (including MIMO etc).

But you'd need multiple data connections, or else that will remain the weak link, compared to someone having their own device.

 

[infobleep]

Does the A record for swt.passsengerwifi.com differ for each unit? If not, you could 'manually cache' its IP in your hosts file, and get to the login page without needing a DNS query each time.

Every four or five block of coaches you have to login again. However the up address 198.162.100.1 doesn't change.

On the Portsmouth line the state of the wifi is now such that I no longer try it, particularly since the last log in variant. If SWT are paying for it, they should stop.

The WiFi was really good until they switched to using the new address. Now even the IP address doesn't work.

It use to be like this near the start of the rollong and then it eventually become good for a time. So clearly they could do something to make it good again. Not sure what's changed technically to cause the issues.

If like they did before, they resolve the issues, it will improve.

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--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They are. Many new sites from EE as it will be providing coverage for the emergency services, while Vodafone and O2 are upgrading all their old 2G (and useless 3G) sites to 4G. Vodafone is also switching a lot of 2G to 3G, but with sufficient back haul so you'll actually get more than 0.01Mbps or similar!

By 2018, expect big improvements from all. By 2020, EE should be giving 4G to pretty much all land mass, so that will mean railways and motorways covered. Speeds won't necessarily be amazing, but I'd expect 10-15Mbps or more. Elsewhere, speeds will be offered of 600Mbps or more!

Well every so often I get a message from O2 to say they are making improvements for my 4G. After some of these messages, they announced am upgrade so I would get 4G. I asked on twitter about the fact how can I get 4G if I already had it. They never gave me a good enough answer.

As for the 4G it's patchy where I live to say the least.

In Surbiton, which I pass through at times, it's also patchy and at some parts it's non existant and that includes for voice calls! That's not even on the railway lines and I'm talking about outside rather than inside!

Of course there map says it's all fine. I did raise it in the past and some improvements occurred but not every where and it can be variable at times still, in the places where it does work.

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[dgl]

A little tip i found out for the SWT WiFi is if you want to reconnect after the hour just go into private browsing mode and login from there. You can them go back to normal mode and it'll work just fine.

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[W0lfie]

Does the A record for swt.passsengerwifi.com differ for each unit? If not, you could 'manually cache' its IP in your hosts file, and get to the login page without needing a DNS query each time.

As far as I'm aware they all resolve to 192.168.100.1, however recently on my morning train service the login portal has been completely inoperable. Strangely this only seems to occur on my morning train, almost every other train I ride the WiFi functions but my morning service has been broken every day for the last month.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The WiFi was really good until they switched to using the new address. Now even the IP address doesn't work.

It use to be like this near the start of the rollong and then it eventually become good for a time. So clearly they could do something to make it good again. Not sure what's changed technically to cause the issues.

If like they did before, they resolve the issues, it will improve.

Yeah, exactly this. It's a great pity, I wonder why they changed it? I guess a domain is more user friendly. It's not that complicated of a change, so I wonder why it seems to have knocked out the whole system?

 

[jon0844]

Every four or five block of coaches you have to login again. However the up address 198.162.100.1 doesn't change.

The WiFi was really good until they switched to using the new address. Now even the IP address doesn't work.

It use to be like this near the start of the rollong and then it eventually become good for a time. So clearly they could do something to make it good again. Not sure what's changed technically to cause the issues.

If like they did before, they resolve the issues, it will improve.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Well every so often I get a message from O2 to say they are making improvements for my 4G. After some of these messages, they announced am upgrade so I would get 4G. I asked on twitter about the fact how can I get 4G if I already had it. They never gave me a good enough answer.

As for the 4G it's patchy where I live to say the least.

In Surbiton, which I pass through at times, it's also patchy and at some parts it's non existant and that includes for voice calls! That's not even on the railway lines and I'm talking about outside rather than inside!

Of course there map says it's all fine. I did raise it in the past and some improvements occurred but not every where and it can be variable at times still, in the places where it does work.

Sent from my SM-G925F using Tapatalk

What phone do you have? Some Samsung phones in the past had poor antennas for 4G (to put it politely) and more recently the iPhone 7 is having problems where the phone can drop to 3G and not return without a reboot.

The thresholds that determine when to fall back from 4G to 3G can also play a part on some phones. One option can be to force 4G only, but that would knock out voice calls for now as O2 hadn't launched VoLTE (voice over 4G) yet.

 

[infobleep]

What phone do you have? Some Samsung phones in the past had poor antennas for 4G (to put it politely) and more recently the iPhone 7 is having problems where the phone can drop to 3G and not return without a reboot.

The thresholds that determine when to fall back from 4G to 3G can also play a part on some phones. One option can be to force 4G only, but that would knock out voice calls for now as O2 hadn't launched VoLTE (voice over 4G) yet.

I have the Samsung S6 Edge. I also had problems with my Nexus 5. Both phones had good reviews. If they are having issues may be the reviewers didn't come across them.

Are O2 due to a lunch VoLTE?

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[jon0844]

I have the Samsung S6 Edge. I also had problems with my Nexus 5. Both phones had good reviews. If they are having issues may be the reviewers didn't come across them.

Are O2 due to a lunch VoLTE?

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Reviewers are unlikely to check this to be honest, as few sites (if any) have measuring equipment.

From threads on forums, it seems it may be as much about firmware changes as hardware, with changes to the modem drivers. This in turn could affect how it performs on 4G and how and when it switches to 3G (or 2G) and back.

As for VoLTE on O2, I am not sure when it is going to launch, but it will at some point because the long term plan will be to turn off 3G. You can carry voice over 2G, but 4G is so much more efficient (and higher voice quality) that it's a temporary solution.

EE has VoLTE but is yet to turn on its 800MHz network.
Three has VoLTE and has turned on 800 in some places, but with very few sites.

Vodafone and O2 are yet to switch on VoLTE. They have 800MHz, but it's used by all so has to fit within the existing 2G and 3G footprint, which is what causes a lot of the issues. Issues EE and Three don't have.