Bevan Price
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Yes. I recall that Mallard was not in brilliant condition, and it was given a rather basic overhaul, and permitted just to run a very limited number of trips on the main line in 1980.
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Will Mallard Ever Run Again?
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StephenHunter
Established Member
They already had the world rail speed record - an SVT 137 had gone slightly over Mallard's speed in 1936.
20 steamings only I believe between 86 and 89? The late John Bellwood had a big hand in its restoration.
Class08Shunter
On Moderation
Mallard broke the speed record for steam engines in 1938.
Going back to OP’s question, the simple truth is this: Mallard as a static exhibit is worth far more to the NRM than as an operational locomotive.
Mallard and Flying Scotsman are by some distance the most recognisable locomotives in the UK. They’re the engines that the average punter with no other railway knowledge will recognise. They feature prominently on the NRM’s merchandise and marketing. So from a business perspective, having one on display and one as a roaming ambassador makes perfect sense. If you had neither on display at York, you lose a major attraction that brings visitors to the museum.
I don’t believe Mallard will ever run again under her own steam, unless the National Collection was disbanded and she was sold to a private owner. Which I’m ok with. 60009 on the other hand…
Mallard and Flying Scotsman are by some distance the most recognisable locomotives in the UK. They’re the engines that the average punter with no other railway knowledge will recognise. They feature prominently on the NRM’s merchandise and marketing. So from a business perspective, having one on display and one as a roaming ambassador makes perfect sense. If you had neither on display at York, you lose a major attraction that brings visitors to the museum.
I don’t believe Mallard will ever run again under her own steam, unless the National Collection was disbanded and she was sold to a private owner. Which I’m ok with. 60009 on the other hand…
Yes but @StephenHunter was not referring to a 1936 steam record.
Mallard‘s mainline restoration in 1988 was to celebrate 50 years since the World Steam Record was achieved. I remember watching it pass through Shipley station on the anniversary run. There were plenty of people out to watch it and unlike today nobody was trespassing to get ‘that shot’.
I remember seeing it running up and down the yard at the NRM without the streamlined case on, it’s boiler had just been overhauled and it was being steamed up for the first time in 20 odd years? It took some restoring from memory and it wasn’t out and about for long before being placed back in the museum.
Now, it is around 35 years since its last escapades and to be quite honest it would take years to get it back in working order and probably cost northwards of what it cost for Flying Scotsman‘s restoration. In times of belt tightening, especially on the railway do we really want to see taxpayer money thrown at a project which, lets be honest, isn’t really required so long as at least one member of the class is running. With all the problems and bad publicity around Scotsman’s restoration and return do we really want a repeat of this?
I remember seeing it running up and down the yard at the NRM without the streamlined case on, it’s boiler had just been overhauled and it was being steamed up for the first time in 20 odd years? It took some restoring from memory and it wasn’t out and about for long before being placed back in the museum.
Now, it is around 35 years since its last escapades and to be quite honest it would take years to get it back in working order and probably cost northwards of what it cost for Flying Scotsman‘s restoration. In times of belt tightening, especially on the railway do we really want to see taxpayer money thrown at a project which, lets be honest, isn’t really required so long as at least one member of the class is running. With all the problems and bad publicity around Scotsman’s restoration and return do we really want a repeat of this?
Wasn't Mallard just about 'patched up' for the 1980's railtours, and that's why it was only a limited number of runs over 2 years rather than a 10 year ticket? I seem to recall reading that the boiler/firebox would need major work to steam again.
Personally, I'd rather see some of the smaller locos in the NRM restored to working order than Mallard. I find them more interesting in a way.
Personally, I'd rather see some of the smaller locos in the NRM restored to working order than Mallard. I find them more interesting in a way.
To keep things on subject there’s a thread discussing the historical side of A4s here now:
LNER A4s in service.
I doubt even the A4s reached 90mph much/at all when they were in service? mods note - split from here. Have you never heard of a guy called Bill Hoole?
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43172
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Personally i doubt Mallard will run again . Even if it did there'd be the fear during the life of the boiler ticket would be the threat of being banned as i can imagine the risk of people tresspassing would be higher than even those who do so to see Flying Scotsman (itself had trespassing issues in May 2019 which prompted atricles from news outlets, have attached an article link to this post), given that Mallard hasn't run since the latter half of the 80's, as well as the being the steam locomotive record holder.
Article link: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-48229400.amp
As long as at least one A4 is operating on the main line then the legacy of Mallard can travel across the country, although it would be nice to see it run a small number of tours in the 2030's to celebrate 100 years since setting the steam record, but a question for the future.
Article link: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-48229400.amp
The Flying Scotsman could be banned from main line tracks after people trespassed to catch a glimpse of it.
There was chaos between Derby and Birmingham last Sunday as fans vied to spot the legendary loco on its UK tour.
The situation was blamed for a string of delays to normal services, with reports of people refusing to move when challenged by drivers.
Network Rail said a ban would be a "move of last resort" but could not be ruled out if lives were being risked.
It would not let "a few thoughtless lawbreakers" cause dangers and delays, it said.
Nearly 60 services were delayed for a total of 1,000 minutes as Flying Scotsman complete its tour of the Midlands last weekend, British Transport Police (BTP) said.
The force has issued an image of two photographers it wants to trace, saying it was "extremely disappointing that a small minority of rail enthusiasts put their lives in grave danger".
IMAGE SOURCE,BRITISH TRANSPORT POLICE
Image caption,
An image of two people just metres away from the line as a train was due to pass was released by police
One passenger service driver, who asked to remain anonymous, said he saw trainspotting trespassers every 200 yards.
Describing it as "probably the most stressful experience I have ever had", he said it was "only a matter of time before someone is seriously injured or killed" trying to get a photo.
Nick Brodrick, editor of Steam Railway magazine, said the problem was "deeply troubling".
"When you have drivers having to stop, get out and tell trespassers to move and even then be ignored, the situation is simply unacceptable," he said.
He said it would be hard to argue with a ban if someone was injured or killed.
A Flying Scotsman spokesman said a ban "would not be a surprise" but every effort, such as CCTV and extra police on the train, was being taken to avoid the situation.
The tour ends in Scotland on Friday.
As long as at least one A4 is operating on the main line then the legacy of Mallard can travel across the country, although it would be nice to see it run a small number of tours in the 2030's to celebrate 100 years since setting the steam record, but a question for the future.
Personally it should remain stuffed as there is an A4 on the mainline now. Also as others have mentioned, there are more deserving loco's that could be restored to working order too.
An image of 'Mallard' on her final mainline working in August 1988 - https://www.flickr.com/photos/8a-collection/8227230309/in/dateposted/
An image of 'Mallard' on her final mainline working in August 1988 - https://www.flickr.com/photos/8a-collection/8227230309/in/dateposted/
What a fantastic image, a fitting legacy with which to bow out gracefully.
Class08Shunter
On Moderation
Maybe Mallard would be sent to heritage railways instead of the main line. But then Flying Scotsman would have to go back on display so tourist numbers don't go down.
As mentioned up thread, it would cost a heck of a lot of money to get Mallard back into working order. The current boiler was fitted at it’s last general repair in August 1961, and was used for twenty months in BR service until withdrawal in April 1963. Some re-tubing allowed a limited number of steamings in the 1980s but now it would need major and costly repairs to steam again. Would there really be a drop in tourist numbers if Mallard was not on display at the NRM? I think it doubtful, but with free admission to the NRM, any small loss of revenue due to attendance would be on the sales and catering side.
Class08Shunter
On Moderation
If they spent a lot of money on Flying Scotsman, surely they can spend a lot of money on Mallard.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
it doesn't really work like that. You assume they have the money ( or even access to the money) to spend it.
Like I said this will almost certainly never happen. Obviously if Egon Musk comes along and offers a blank cheque things might change ..........................
In the case of the Flying Scotsman “They” included several wealthy owners who all moved it on because it was too expensive and virtually ruined them! Not sure that’s an attractive precedent…
And just look how much Flying Scotsman’s overhaul ran over budget. IIRC other projects were cancelled (eg overhauls to 5000, 2700 and a replacement cylinder block for 4771) because funds were diverted to 60103.
Because they spent a lot of money on Flying Scotsman, they won't spend the money on Mallard
Mainly because that swallowed all the money they had available for a few years!
I believe Elon doesn't like trains. Food critic Egon Ronay might have been able to help but we'll never know as he's been dead since 2010.
An unfortunate consequence of having solicited donations from the general public on the understanding that Scotsman would be restored to main line standard and tour the country. I’m surprised they haven’t run it as Gordon the Big Engine yet.
If you wanted Mallard to run again, the way to do it would probably be to start a groundswell of opinion in about ten years’ time to get it overhauled for the centenary of the record breaking run. Scotsman could be kept at York for the duration of Mallard’s main line ticket as a compensation.
Alternatively, just put fake numbers and nameplates on Bittern and run that instead…..
Indeed
I suspect that the more likely option will see Mallard shunted out into York P7 (as it was for the Azuma launch) with a information stall and footplate visits for £10.
Given previous running, probably not even fake numbers, just run any A4 they can keep going as a 'tribute' to Mallard.
I'd lilke to see 2700 run again but even as an LMS fan, I don't mind that 5000 remains non-operational in the museum. There are plenty of Black 5s and 5000 is stunning in its current finish. Also, they'd totally outshop it in BR Black as 45000...
4771 on the other hand should be restored in my view.
Yes a lot of people would agree, but it would be very costly as the monobloc cylinder casting is cracked, and a new one would need to be manufactured. I have read somewhere that a better solution would be to fit separate cylinders as BR did to around seventy V2s, but the much larger outside steam pipes acquired did spoil their appearance slightly.
The Prince of Wales P2 project has very recently demonstrated that a 'monobloc' similar to that on the V2s can be be fabricated from smaller parts welded together rather than cast in one piece.
Runningaround
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Will Mallard does good programs on BBC Wales on Rivers and hidden places of historical significance. So, I hope he's still going to do more.
Peter Wilde
Member
Eek! Elon Musk would want to strip down Mallard and stuff it into one of his ridiculous Hyperloop tubes !
Madge Wildfire
Member
I doubt many mainline steam locos will run in the future, once the climate change activists realise how much coal the loco would burn on a single trip.
I am informed that burning coal on my open fire will be illegal from May 2023. I don't know how long heritage steam locos might be exempt.
I am informed that burning coal on my open fire will be illegal from May 2023. I don't know how long heritage steam locos might be exempt.
The coal burned on a trip is insignficant to the diesel burned every day by the railway. But even so, various organisations that currently use coal are exploring net-zero options like biomass briquettes.
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