WMTrains livery and station branding

[sufian123]

They aren't going yet, but they will be replaced by the new Aventras.

350/2 be staying London midland livery till they go?

 

[Bletchleyite]

So, First Capital Connect then?

Personally I'm a big fan of the the various "* Lines" liveries that First latterly used. I think they are genuinely clever, giving a family resemblence with local adaptations.

 

[Bletchleyite]

350/2 be staying London midland livery till they go?

Sounds like it. That will be really quite useful - easier than looking down the side of the train to see what font the set number is, or trying to distinguish the lighter grey of a /2 from the darker grey of /1, should you like most commuters wish to avoid them!

 

[Silverlinky]

It surprises me how slow this is all happening.

It's surely fairly easy to do these days, although I can see London Midland leaving the units to go bad nearer the end of the franchise so I understand a lot of work would need to be done first.

But I'm sure other franchise changes removed names pretty much overnight.

LNW are short of units already due to those out of traffic for various reasons......its really only those that make it back to Kings Heath (max 4 a night out of a fleet of 77) to be worked on that are getting the stickers. Many have had LM wording removed, some have not, and some have and now have LNW stickers.

 

[Class313:)]

if theyre short of units then why dont they ask GN for their 21 spare 365s. You'd need training etc. but as a longer-term soloution I think it is viable

 

[Class465fan]

if theyre short of units then why dont they ask GN for their 21 spare 365s. You'd need training etc. but as a longer-term soloution I think it is viable

Good suggestion. The 365s are rather reliable that are too young to be stored in a middle of nowhere waiting to be scrapped.

 

[Domh245]

Unfortunately, as @D365 has explained about a million times, the 365s are a nuisance to clear for use anywhere due to their traction electronics, but if they're short of units, the sensible thing to do would be to hire more 319s, which they already operate, which is exactly what they've done...

 

[Class313:)]

Never liked 319s. Old, and havent had a refurb AFAIK. And where has @D365 explained it

 

[Domh245]

He's explained it in a few different threads, usually those related to cascading 365s, but I can't find them at the moment. And it doesn't matter whether or not the 319s are unrefurbished or not, because they are stop gaps to enable stock to go off for refurbishment, and until the new stock arrives.

 

[Class465fan]

Unfortunately, as @D365 has explained about a million times, the 365s are a nuisance to clear for use anywhere due to their traction electronics, but if they're short of units, the sensible thing to do would be to hire more 319s, which they already operate, which is exactly what they've done...

If that's true then what routes are they cleared to run on (excluding London midland)

 

[Domh245]

The 365s are currently only cleared for GN routes as far as I'm aware.

 

[Class465fan]

Could they do testing on routes they're not cleared for or will that require some modifications?

 

[Bletchleyite]

319s may not be *nice*, but they contain seats. More seats are good, whatever type of EMU they are found inside.

 

[Domh245]

Could they do testing on routes they're not cleared for or will that require some modifications?

They could be tested, but the main problem is that their traction electronics are likely to cause the signalling system to misbehave, requiring modifications to either the train or the signalling - both of which are expensive.

 

[Chris172]

Hello, new member here.

I heard on the grapevine (twitter) that WMT were not happy with the West Midlands Railway livery and that’s why no more have been repainted into the new scheme

 

[XCTurbostar]

I hope that's not the case and that, like SWR, they are prioritising using the fleets in service rather than pulling units out of service for a fresh lot of stickers.

 

[Chris172]

It’s certainly eye catching livery and in the flesh it stands out. I don’t think the purple on the front suits it but I feel the metallic purple should become a Matt purple

 

[pt_mad]

The plan is for the /3's to receive full wrap at a rate of one every two weeks commencing shortly.
The mark 1's require corrosion repairs, mainly along the roofline before they get wrapped.
The mark 2's will not receive WM Livery as they will be departing these shores.
The mark 4's will also be wrapped when they arrive later next year.

All units are being applied with WM Branding when they are on depot exam.

So as soon as the program starts, all 350/3s will be done within 20 weeks. Sounds good.

 

[Chris172]

Will some of the 350s get repainted into West Midlands railway livery as they will be used on the chase line once electrified

 

[387star]

So as soon as the program starts, all 350/3s will be done within 20 weeks. Sounds good.

Good news! always a mess when a new operator takes over in branding terms

 

[59CosG95]

Will some of the 350s get repainted into West Midlands railway livery as they will be used on the chase line once electrified

Seems highly unlikely. I suspect more 350s will get put onto the WMR routes that share LNR routes, and convert them to LNR services then & there (in name only). I heard 323s may also be using the Chase Line, which makes more sense, given that the replacement stock is due to be 3-car Aventras.

 

[JordyWM]

The plan is for the /3's to receive full wrap at a rate of one every two weeks commencing shortly.
The mark 1's require corrosion repairs, mainly along the roofline before they get wrapped.
The mark 2's will not receive WM Livery as they will be departing these shores.
The mark 4's will also be wrapped when they arrive later next year.

All units are being applied with WM Branding when they are on depot exam.

Apologies if I have missed something here, but when you say WM Livery, do we mean wmtrains or West Midlands Railway? As don’t /3’s mostly run on the now London Nortwestern lines?

I would like to see some more purple livery trains soon.

 

[XCTurbostar]

I’m pretty sure @Silverlinky means that the 350/2s won’t get anything extra at all past a small sticker on the side.

 

[Class313:)]

Sliverlinky?

 

[Domh245]

Sliverlinky?

https://www.railforums.co.uk/members/silverlinky.13749/

 

[59CosG95]

As an aside, it's worth mentioning in the new forums that you can mention someone in a comment by writing "@user"; if Silverlinky needed to be brought into a discussion as it occurred, typing "@Silverlinky" would do the trick.

Anyhow, back to the livery news.

 

[whhistle]

I heard on the grapevine (twitter) that WMT were not happy with the West Midlands Railway livery and that’s why no more have been repainted into the new scheme

I can see that, but feel free to quote/link your source.

Although I'm not sure I understand the "cleared for this or that" business.
Surely ALL trains are built to the UK loading gauge, and all line side equipment is at the same standard. Thus, any train, could go anywhere without banging into anything? I understand there is a lot of difference between coach lengths, but there aren't hundreds of different lengths, so surely they need to clear the route with any "23 metre" train and it'll be cleared for all?
I know I'm obviously being naive here, but I don't understand why it seems too complicated to clear trains for routes.

 

[Crossforth]

I can see that, but feel free to quote/link your source.

Although I'm not sure I understand the "cleared for this or that" business.
Surely ALL trains are built to the UK loading gauge, and all line side equipment is at the same standard. Thus, any train, could go anywhere without banging into anything? I understand there is a lot of difference between coach lengths, but there aren't hundreds of different lengths, so surely they need to clear the route with any "23 metre" train and it'll be cleared for all?
I know I'm obviously being naive here, but I don't understand why it seems too complicated to clear trains for routes.

The way i understand it is that 20m and 23m was not the standard when steam trains were running about. I don’t know where it is but I gather there is a route that 158s cannot run on because the roof vents are too high for a tunnel.

The issue with the 365s (I interpret it as) is that the onboard electronics have the potential to interfere with certain types of signalling equipment. I assume this will be frequency based track circuits. There will be lots of other issues to like platforms heights. Class 185s can’t use platform 5 at Scarborough due to clearance issues.

 

[Domh245]

There is a lot more to route clearance than simply "will it go without hitting anything" - you need to consider electronic interference, safety systems, power draw, etc. It is also worth pointing out that there is no such thing as "UK loading gauge" or "any 23 metre train" - This twitter thread has a few different examples of 23/26m long stock and how some will foul a platform and some won't, but for simplicity's sake, here's an overlay of the kinetic envelope of several different vehicles:

Cyan is Mk5, Magenta is Mk4, Blue is Mk3, Green is 80x.

Also, it is worth pointing out that most modern lineside equipment will be to the same standard, but there are plenty of structures that precede modern standards by a long way, and it is those that tend to be the problems

 

[59CosG95]

The issue with the 365s (I interpret it as) is that the onboard electronics have the potential to interfere with certain types of signalling equipment. I assume this will be frequency based track circuits. There will be lots of other issues to like platforms heights. Class 185s can’t use platform 5 at Scarborough due to clearance issues.

They do indeed; it's the AC traction equipment that causes the problem. In DC 3rd Rail land, all the track circuits have to be AC to avoid the live rail interfering with the running rail over which the circuits run. In AC OLE land, where track is continuously welded, AC circuits at varying frequencies are employed for the same reason.
With respect to route clearance, some track circuits are tuned to the specific frequencies of the stock that use it; on the WCML, the stock in question is 350s, 377s, 390s and occasionally 323s.
These may have different frequencies emitted by the traction equipment to the 365s, and there is every possibility that running a 365 up the WCML would cause no end of interference in the circuits. As @Domh245 mentioned, it's a lot of the legacy lineside equipment that causes the electrical problems; while most of the WCML is axle-counter protected nowadays, the parts which still use track circuits are where the problems lie.

But I'm not quite sure what this has to do with the livery used by the trains in the West Midlands franchise...