Worst Rail Routes for fare collection in members' experience?

[fandroid]

I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I have had my ticket check on the train between Stevenage and KGX, STP and LBG (and vv) since ticket gates were introduced. It wasn't even that common prior to this.

I assume the assumption is that if the ticket gates are in operation, this effectively does the Revenue Protection Officers' job for them. Often, their mobiles can't read the Key Smartcards they have been issuing, which, frustratingly, are only valid to Foxton and Huntingdon northbound in any case.

To be fair, I have seen even less revenue protection in rural Germany than in the UK. The ticket machines there often don't sell the tickets required, or will only accept cash, and often only coins, and very, very rarely, cards (and if they do it will almost always only be German Giropay cards). So DB only have themselves to blame for faredodging at epic levels. I just had a wonderful weekend in Luxembourg, where, of course, 2nd class transport on trains, buses, trams, and funicular is free, and buses that much quicker as people aren't haggling over the fare.

Except for Intercity Trains, fares in Germany are set by local transport associations. DB are fairly good at onboard ticket checks on Intercity. On other lines, in my experience, the non-DB franchises are better at ticket checks. Most cities rely on random checks (with plain clothes inspectors) on all public transport with hefty fines for travel without a ticket. It's possible the same applies for rural routes too.

 

[drb61]

I'm finding with mobile tickets that the ticket inspectors mostly only give the barcode a cursory glance and rarely scan it to check that it is valid (as I understand they are supposed to). Almost as if to say "I see you've got a ticket - that's good enough, whether it's valid or not". Isn't the purpose of scanning the ticket also to track that it has been used and prevent re-use? Furthermore I am rarely asked to show my railcard when my ticket is checked. Mostly on local ScotRail services in the Glasgow area - not sure what it's like in other areas or with other TOCs.

 

[Kite159]

Some of the best guards on the network seem to be the Great Western ones. Not just in terms of checking tickets (which they do very well; unless I'm only on the train for a few minutes I am pretty much always checked) but also in other customer-facing aspects of the job - in particular, providing useful information on the PA without the waffle that seems to plague some other TOCs, or repetition of what the pre-recorded announcement has just said!

CrossCountry and TPE don't seem to have many on-train checks, which I imagine has something to do with their chronic overcrowding and guards not wanting to barge their way through a crush-loaded train. They do, however, serve predominantly gated stations.

In my experience the GWR guards on the local services are a lot more proactive at checking tickets (even changing units if the train is a pair of Turbos to capture those who jumped in the front unit hoping for a free ride). The guards on the intercity services not so much.

SWR can be hit & miss [commercial guard wise]

 

[PaulJ]

All Southeastern services, they were irregular before covid but are almost non existent now.

And what particular route would that be?

 

[Starmill]

I know this is heresy on this forum, but I'd much rather drinkers were heading back to Wem from Shrewsbury on the train rather than driving back.

And if we lose a few pennies on fares - let's say 30 people dodging the £5.70 return fare making a grand total of £170-ish every Friday - does it really matter? Attending to one road accident caused by a drunk driver speeding in the dark at, say, Harmer Hill will cost the public purse tens of thousands at least.

My view would be that the solution to this is to tax parking space within town centres and run a more frequent train and bus service, rather than just let some people travel for nothing when they ought to have paid. Another useful approach would be to look at reducing the price somehow, for example through a nationwide railcard or discount offer. But I do take the point.

 

[Nova1]

I'm finding with mobile tickets that the ticket inspectors mostly only give the barcode a cursory glance and rarely scan it to check that it is valid (as I understand they are supposed to). Almost as if to say "I see you've got a ticket - that's good enough, whether it's valid or not". Isn't the purpose of scanning the ticket also to track that it has been used and prevent re-use? Furthermore I am rarely asked to show my railcard when my ticket is checked. Mostly on local ScotRail services in the Glasgow area - not sure what it's like in other areas or with other TOCs.

I travelled with a weekly season ticket on a smartcard for a bit with West Midlands Railway, often guards would not even check there was a ticket on the smartcard, just a glance at the smart card.

 

[riceuten]

Except for Intercity Trains, fares in Germany are set by local transport associations. DB are fairly good at onboard ticket checks on Intercity. On other lines, in my experience, the non-DB franchises are better at ticket checks. Most cities rely on random checks (with plain clothes inspectors) on all public transport with hefty fines for travel without a ticket. It's possible the same applies for rural routes too.

That's sort of true, but less so if you are travelling - as I often am, between 2 different "Verkehrsvebunde" where DB do set the fares. And this is a set of regional services operated by DB Regio where ticket checks are seldom enough to deserve comment. The random checks I have experience in German cities have almost exclusively been on trams and very occasionally on buses - less need for these if the driver has already checked your ticket.

 

[Adsy125]

In my experience the GWR guards on the local services are a lot more proactive at checking tickets (even changing units if the train is a pair of Turbos to capture those who jumped in the front unit hoping for a free ride). The guards on the intercity services not so much.

Traveling recently on the Heart of Wessex it seemed the ticket checks were rather lacking. Despite having 3 members of staff on the train my ticket wasn't checked once. They were very visible generally but no ticket checks, which seems surprising given there are a number of stations where you can't even purchase a ticket.

 

[Kite159]

Traveling recently on the Heart of Wessex it seemed the ticket checks were rather lacking. Despite having 3 members of staff on the train my ticket wasn't checked once. They were very visible generally but no ticket checks, which seems surprising given there are a number of stations where you can't even purchase a ticket.

And a handful of request stops where you need to be in the correct part of the train due to short platforms.

 

[Parallel]

I normally find the guards on GWR regional services quite proactive at checking tickets but would agree that ticket checks seem less frequent on the IET services.

They seem to be really lacking at checking tickets on Avanti, which is concerning bearing in mind how many of their stations don’t have gatelines.

Conversely I find XC very proactive, unless the train is full and standing.

 

[Dai Corner]

I normally find the guards on GWR regional services quite proactive at checking tickets but would agree that ticket checks seem less frequent on the IET services.

The IETs mainly serve barriered stations, except at the extremities of the network.

 

[D1537]

I have made a number of LNER journeys recently between two stations. The journey is from station A to station C, with the last intermediate stop being station B.

Tickets have never been checked between A and B, but are always checked between B and C (and vice versa). So theoretically I could have travelled from A to B and back every time without a ticket. Neither A nor B is barriered, and they are some 185 miles apart.

 

[Parallel]

The IETs mainly serve barriered stations, except at the extremities of the network.

Passengers can still board at an ungated station and change trains somewhere else onto an IET. I also wouldn’t call the Hanborough-Worcester; Kemble-Stonehouse and Pewsey-Tiverton Parkway sections of the network ‘extremities’. Even where gates are installed, they are often open e.g Bath and Bristol Parkway… Plus Paddington has three ungated platforms commonly used for mainline services.

 

[Dai Corner]

Passengers can still board at an ungated station and change trains somewhere else onto an IET. I also wouldn’t the Hanborough-Worcester; Kemble-Stonehouse and Pewsey-Tiverton Parkway sections of the network ‘extremities’. Even where gates are installed, they are often open e.g Bath and Bristol Parkway… Plus Paddington has three ungated platforms commonly used for mainline services.

Fair comment. I had in mind the Paddington-Bristol/Swansea routes I'm most familiar with.

 

[Jimini]

Not that I'm a fare dodger(!), but Paddington platform 1 opens up a land of ticketless opportunities, I'd wager?

 

[zero]

I'm finding with mobile tickets that the ticket inspectors mostly only give the barcode a cursory glance and rarely scan it to check that it is valid (as I understand they are supposed to). Almost as if to say "I see you've got a ticket - that's good enough, whether it's valid or not". Isn't the purpose of scanning the ticket also to track that it has been used and prevent re-use? Furthermore I am rarely asked to show my railcard when my ticket is checked. Mostly on local ScotRail services in the Glasgow area - not sure what it's like in other areas or with other TOCs.

That's sort of the same as glancing at paper tickets without clipping them. In my personal experience this was quite common on local/suburban routes, so it's nothing new (I've kept every paper ticket that wasn't swallowed by barriers and most of them are unmarked). On longer trips most people are on advance tickets for which not scanning/clipping doesn't really matter.

Regarding Germany, I had more checks in 5 days of 9-euro-ticket usage, than during the past 10 years of travel (I think around 30 days in total, and only referring to non-IC(E) modes). Don't most people on urban trips have a season ticket anyway? If you're only making one single trip then you might risk it, but if you are making a lot of trips within a certain period, the cost per trip rapidly drops until extra trips are free, in which case it wouldn't make sense to risk getting caught.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not that I'm a fare dodger(!), but Paddington platform 1 opens up a land of ticketless opportunities, I'd wager?

And Euston P16, 12-15 and 4-7. Avanti usually do staffed boarding controls these days, but LNR don't, and the staffing of gatelines at outer stations by security staff (who couldn't do anything more than ask you to buy a ticket, but at least deterred casual evasion) seems to have died out with COVID.

I'm not quite sure what has happened to the plan to fully gate Euston. Perhaps it's on hold pending the HS2 work which could give it an entirely new layout more suited to a single paid area, though I don't think it would be too hard to run a gateline along under the departure board, and it would reduce vandalism of the toilets a bit.

 

[Chiltern006]

Southeastern is very hit and miss. i’ve had 7/8 checks since last october (local TOC) travelling once/twice every fortnight. all bar one have been on the Hastings route, either just leaving london bridge or somewhere on the 1066 line

most conductors don’t bother doing them from Victoria to Bromley on Chatham fasts, as most use oyster/contactless and empties out at bromley making it slightly easier

 

[Birmingham]

the staffing of gatelines at outer stations by security staff (who couldn't do anything more than ask you to buy a ticket, but at least deterred casual evasion) seems to have died out with COVID.

The first to last gateline staffing of Snow Hill has certainly disappeared as well. Smacks of some contract not having been renewed!

 

[mangyiscute]

I take a lot of GWR between Reading and Paddington and tickets checks are fairly rare but imo not rare enough that it's worth the risk even if you are travelling in the evening when you know the gates will be open - I've found almost all guards to scan the mobile tickets but not many will mark a paper ticket. Cross Country does seem to be very good as remarked earlier, and when I travelled around the northern network earlier this year it was pretty good too. Recently on SWR, I specifically asked the guard for a ticket when boarding at Axminster since there was a huge queue at the ticket office and he said sure, then asked again on the train but he still didn't come to sell me a ticket by the time we reached exeter - thankfully the gate staff let me out to buy the devon day ranger that i wanted. What is awful (because the barriers are very good) is the elizabeth line at least between reading and paddington, and also any GWR electrostar services between Paddington and Didcot - i think these are driver only trains so anyone who knows this will almost always be fine. I would say overall that I get checked enough to put off any fare evaders, and i very rarely see anyone who hasn't paid a fare - the few times i do, they have always been forced to buy a ticket

 

[Hadders]

I'm finding with mobile tickets that the ticket inspectors mostly only give the barcode a cursory glance and rarely scan it to check that it is valid (as I understand they are supposed to). Almost as if to say "I see you've got a ticket - that's good enough, whether it's valid or not". Isn't the purpose of scanning the ticket also to track that it has been used and prevent re-use? Furthermore I am rarely asked to show my railcard when my ticket is checked. Mostly on local ScotRail services in the Glasgow area - not sure what it's like in other areas or with other TOCs.

This isn’t my experience with LNER and Thameslink.

I’ve had ticket checks with both recently, on the relative short journey between Stevenage and London.

All e-tickets scanned (in fact an LNER guard charged two people in my carriage for travelling on incorrect tickets). I had a paper tickets and they were given only a brief glance.

 

[Mzzzs]

Great Northern. Two ticket checks in five years of mostly mon to fri use of the service.
Southeastern do they even have people to check tickets on train or platform?
(from personal experience)

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I can't remember the last time I had my ticket checked on the TPE Leeds to Huddersfield stopper. Not an issue most of the time if I'm going to Huddersfield as there are barriers, but if I'm going to Mirfield a more dishonest person would gamble with a Promise To Pay permit. The guards on the Northern service to Wigan seem to be more vigilant.

 

[185]

The first to last gateline staffing of Snow Hill has certainly disappeared as well. Smacks of some contract not having been renewed!

Smacks of the money being the DfT's... and the TOCs not being bothered - with a 'why should we' attitude. DfT need to either...

- tighten revenue collection by imposing 5% ticketless travel threshold clause with severe financial penalties for TOCs passing it warning them to start properly checking tickets at medium to large stations and close any 'loophole' entrances... or.. - Hire huge numbers of their own staff to close off stations, eg- OLR Revenue ...manually barrier all of the top two grades of stations start to finish using a Man Piccadilly-style 'Carlisle' type approach... far cheaper than any million pound barrier nonsense. Those Piccadilly based Carlisle revenue staff pay for themselves in well under their first hour of the day.

This way the onboard checks can easier mop-up the last remaining ticketless travellers from minor stations in the bottom three grades.

 

[Kite159]

The first to last gateline staffing of Snow Hill has certainly disappeared as well. Smacks of some contract not having been renewed!

I suspect someone has decided it isn't worth spending the money on having the gates at Snow Hill staffed from first to last when most tickets will be the £2,50odd West Midlands evening returns. Although from memory first to last was part funded by the PTE.

(Especially as the more determined dodger will just jump over the gates in the subway entrance which from memory was unstaffed with help points)

I've had a couple checks on the Elizabeth line between Reading & Paddington, although isn't the only ungated station now Twyford & Hanwell (although that won't stop anybody doughnuting or short faring. Barriers are good at saying if a ticket is valid at that station, not necessarily if it was valid on the train you arrived on/departing on. For example for Birmingham New Street an e-ticket from Duddeston/Smethwick Rolfe etc (with some of the less informed using Five Ways only to get caught out when the e-ticket hasn't had a scan when the barriers are in use)

Although the penalty for being caught without a ticket on the Elizabeth line is stronger than being caught on GWR.

 

[8J]

I can't remember the last time I had my ticket checked on the TPE Leeds to Huddersfield stopper. Not an issue most of the time if I'm going to Huddersfield as there are barriers, but if I'm going to Mirfield a more dishonest person would gamble with a Promise To Pay permit. The guards on the Northern service to Wigan seem to be more vigilant.

It is much easier for a guard to check tickets on a Class 158 or 195 (which primarily work services on the Leeds - Wigan NW route) as they have guard operating panels at conveniently positioned locations with them being at every door on a 158 and alternate doors on a 195.

Unfortunately, unlike other Desiro units, the 185s only have one GOP for each side of the unit positioned in the centre vehicle of the unit and the rear cab.

This combined with the fact that the 185s accelerate and brake much faster than their Northern counterparts makes checking tickets a difficult job on the stopping services. The guards should still be going through the train though!

 

[MrTurbostar170]

My experience with Southeastern is that if there is a check it is usually only after one or two stations along the entire route. I travelled from Canterbury to Victoria via Maidstone recently and the only check was just after leaving Maidstone.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It is much easier for a guard to check tickets on a Class 158 or 195 (which primarily work services on the Leeds - Wigan NW route) as they have guard operating panels at conveniently positioned locations with them being at every door on a 158 and alternate doors on a 195.

Unfortunately, unlike other Desiro units, the 185s only have one GOP for each side of the unit positioned in the centre vehicle of the unit and the rear cab.

This combined with the fact that the 185s accelerate and brake much faster than their Northern counterparts makes checking tickets a difficult job on the stopping services. The guards should still be going through the train though!

Makes sense, thanks... and to be fair if my destination is Huddersfield or Mirfield I tend to sit as far forward as I can in order to reduce the walk to the exit, which makes it more likely that the guard won't get to me before having to run back to do the doors. Probably doesn't help that 185s were never intended to do local stopping services when they were ordered.

 

[railfan99]

Apologies for asking basic questions, but I'm shortly visiting the UK. Haven't been to your nations for a while.

From the chat above, it seems conductors/guards have a handheld device for scanning tickets, and paper tickets may also be in use.

If staff sell tickets on board, are they printed from the handheld, or do they write a paper ticket? Do they accept Visa/Mastercard (depending on reception!) or cash? Do they give change? Do they have a laminated sheet or small book from which to calculate fares between station X and station Y?

And the last one for me specificially: I'll travel with a 1st class Eurailpass. The latter's Global Passes have been valid in UK since 2019, but am I going to have endless discussions with staff who haven't seen one and who incorrectly believe I'm trying to (as we say in Australia "pull a swifty" over them? (i.e. mislead/lie to them).

 

[185143]

Great Northern. Two ticket checks in five years of mostly mon to fri use of the service.
Southeastern do they even have people to check tickets on train or platform?
(from personal experience)

I think I've had three ticket checks on GTR Great Northern in the same time frame, and I'm a very occasional user, to say the least.