Class08Shunter
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This wasn't my estimate because I found it on an article about Pickering To Malton.
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Would Closed Rail Links In England Reopen?
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Glenn1969
Established Member
i would think about putting Cleckheaton and Heckmondwike back on the railway and improving Bradford- Wakefield direct connectivity
Also Barnsley to Doncaster via Wath maybe should be considered
Also Barnsley to Doncaster via Wath maybe should be considered
Halifaxlad
Established Member
You could do that i.e connect Bradford - Wakey directly for much less if you reopened the line to Anchor Pit in Brighouse through Wyke!
That would also connect Bradford to Hudd directly as opposed to just Wakey.
It would also be much better if you did it in conjunction with Crigglestone curve. Those two lines and we could have direct connections between Bradford to all the fields...
Huddersfield, Wakefield and Sheffield.
That would also have the added benefit of a significantly reduced journey time between Bradford and Manchester as services could run via the Huddersfield line.
You have a direct curve already. Bradford-Halifax-Brighouse-Hudd is possible today.
Again, if desired you can run Bradford-Sheffield via Huddersfield today if you wish.
I think 1tph Sheffield-Hudd, 2tph Sheffield-Leeds via Barnsley and Wakefield, 2tph Wakefield-Bradford (1tph from Leeds, 1tph from York) is a good service level to aim for, when you consider all the other connections in the region.
Could you link the article please? I’d love to know who thinks that it can be reinstated for £18m!
Somebody in 1987 perhaps?
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
I don't think a service from Bradford to Sheffield via the Penistone line could ever be competitive due to the long single line sections and the dogleg from Penistone to Barnsley. Once Huddersfield is upgraded, it would also be awkward getting from Bradley curve across the fast lines at Huddersfield in order to access the Sheffield line at Springwood Junction- even more so in the other direction. There's a reason the old through service from Leeds only ran in that direction.
I quite like the idea of the Crigglestone curve being reinstated, as the current Huddersfield to Sheffield journey is a bit of a slog... however I also use that service to get to Shepley and Denby Dale, and if all the people getting to Barnsley, Meadowhall and Sheffield were instead on a faster service via Crigglestone, the Penistone line would be even less of a priority than it is today.
Bradford to Sheffield might be a better use of said curve, but running direct skips all major population centres between Halifax and Barnsley. I've often bemoaned "reversal anxiety" when discussing Bradford crossrail, so I can't in good conscience bemoan the idea of reversing at Kirkgate as a reason to build the Crigglestone curve. Realistically I can't see there being a good case for the curve unless there was a significant freight flow that could use it. AIUI the majority of freight that runs through Healey Mills currently would not benefit from the curve, being the biomass runs from Liverpool to Drax.
I agree, I was just pointing out it was possible.
You've hit the nail on the head here - there's no freight demand to use this curve, and Wakefield is only a 5-minute detour which would provide a lot more traffic. Certainly easier than the probably £150m cost of the new curve.
Class08Shunter
On Moderation
Obviously the cost will be a lot more than £18M.
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An article from 2012, that Quotes a Town Mayor claiming that ten years before that (i.e. in 2002) the cost was estimated at £18m. It's going to cost slightly more than that after 20 years.
Could you explain how please? (the old trackbed is between the rear of the grandstand and the hedge protecting a pumping station(?))
Class08Shunter
On Moderation
Lidl is circled in yellow and the track would run to left of Lidl which would mean you would have to demolish the S. Taylor & Son Ltd Building which is circled in blue.
could you provide a simple drawing of the proposed alignment? along with a brief explanation of how the line would get to ‘next to Lidl’ from its current terminus.
Class08Shunter
On Moderation
Lidl is circled in yellow and the track would run to the left of Lidl which would mean you would have to demolish the S, Taylor & Son building which is circled in blue. Going back to before 1965, Lidl was a coal yard and the track would've still ran to left of it. One wall of the coal yard remains inbetween the trackbed and Lidl and that is proof that the railway can run next to Lidl.
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The article is from 20th March 2012.
“Whitby Town Council clerk Pam Dobson said the idea to reopen the line had sprung from a long-running campaign which was launched by Skipton-East Lancashire Rail Action Partnership (Selrap) to restore the rail line between Skipton and Colne”.
Anything that is remotely linked to SELRAP and it’s convenient blindness to certain facts (such as the existence of the Copy Pit line) immediately gets dismissed in my mind. Bear in mind they called it a long running campaign 10 years and 9 months ago, remind me how much further on they are with Colne to Skipton beyond false hopes and visits from ministers who fancy a day out for a photo op.
“Coun Lovejoy said that when a similar idea was promoted over a decade ago, the cost of rebuilding the line was estimated at £18m”.
£18m in 2002 is now worth £34m in todays money. Still way short of the mark I suspect.
Do S, Taylor & Son Ltd know you suggest this? I don’t think they’d be very happy.
This doesn't solve the problem of needing to demolish a business...
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At this point, I do need to ask quite seriously whether you are under the influence of any drugs or alcohol.
Class08Shunter
On Moderation
So reopening Pickering To Malton on the original route would be bad for S. Taylor & Son Ltd. The only way to avoid demolition of their business is building a new station south of Pickering to be the terminus on the Pickering to Malton line.
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Why would you ask that?! I am certainly not! There is actually the remains of the coal yard to the left of Lidl. If you don't believe me go have a look for yourself. And like I said in another reply to avoid demolition, you would have to build a new station to the south of Pickering to be the terminus of the Pickering To Malton.
I count S. Taylor, a car park, and about half a dozen houses/shops to be demolished. Oh, and 3 level crossings.
I ask it because existence of a wall being proof that a railway would fit is utterly detached from reality.
A new station to the south of Pickering realistically has 2 options:
Neither of which are particularly well suited, although the Malton Road/Haygate Lane site is not terrible.
Class08Shunter
On Moderation
I definitely want S. Taylor & Sons Ltd to keep their business going. So instead of Pickering to Malton on the original route, A new station should be built south of Pickering to be the terminus of Pickering To Malton so demolition can be avoided.
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You have to remember that most people that are obsessed with putting the railways back to how they were before 1965 generally don’t care about demolishing people’s houses or businesses and also seem to think their is a bottomless pit of money to achieve this. I wonder what would happen if someone came along and insisted on demolishing their house for a new road.
Class08Shunter
On Moderation
I would've thought Pickering South would be near the old Black Bull Railway Station.
1.5 miles from the town? Are you expecting all the tourists to walk for 30-45 mins or would you run a shuttle bus, in which case why not just run it from Malton?
I don't believe any properties would need to be demolished, more that the ropery and its associated car park would need to be closed. The line could be diverted over Pickering Beck to allow S Taylor to survive at their current location. I would say that it would cost £3-5 million more than terminating at Pickering south, but would allow through trains to Whitby. The level crossing problem is not too large as trains would not be going faster than 15mph through this section.
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Class08Shunter
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I would introduce a bus service.
No it couldn't, There's only 10m between S Taylor and Lidl, the foundations would get destroyed by vibrations, even from just a little DMU.
It will cost a lot, lot, lot, more than £5m to deck over Pickering Beck. When it floods, the water will need to go somewhere and it can't do that if it's culverted.
It's not a level crossing, it's a tramway. Either way it's going to be a colossal deal breaker as if it's in regular service it'll cost over £100m to install and if it isn't for regular service it won't be worth even the lower costs.
The only feasible route is to deviate from the original trackbed south of the Blackbull, bridge Upper Carr Lane and then head for a new station site somewhere on the west end of the open ground adjacent to Outgangs/Crossgates lane. But this isn't, in any way, a viable economic proposition.
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So please answer my second question, why not do that from Malton station?
Class08Shunter
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Thats a good idea.
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A bus would run every so often from Malton to Pickering.
So why bother building the railway halfway to Pickering?
Class08Shunter
On Moderation
A bus would come from Malton, Stop at Pickering South and pick up passengers who want to get on the NYMR Train to Whitby.
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Would you be able to resite S, Taylor & Sons Ltd to another part of Pickering?
YorksLad12
Established Member
Not I, because...
... aren't great income generators. That's one reason nearly everything goes through Leeds. This route even avoids Wakefield!
Cleck-Heck is being lined up for Mass Transit, with consultations later in 2023. That would connect with Low Moor and Bradford northwards, and Dewsbury southwards.
I realise that this is a speculative forum for speculative ideas, and reality is frowned upon, but: this reminds me of the Friends of Askern Station, who wanted £1 million or so to reopen the station. On its original site, hemmed in with no P&R possibility, and looking like Kirkstall Forge or Apperley Bridge which together cost almost £20m. Also, the only passenger service is three out of the four Grand Central services each day. And, they would have to not stop at Knottingley as the old platforms for that line aren't there. But apart from that...
(I'd have asked for £30m to build a new parkway station between Askern and Norton, taking commuter traffic off the roads, reducing congestion and harmful emissions. It would have as much chance of being built... none.)
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