WSMR satisfaction now 99%!

[tbtc]

Nice news, but meaningless in terms of comparison with any TOC.

WMSR provide a service aimed at the leisure market which wasn't previously available; no wonder they are going to get high satisfaction results.

You might as well state that your local farm shop has good customer satisfaction and that this should be an example to ASDA - there's really no comparison

 

[Greenback]

That's a far better way of putting down what I was trying to say about WSMR as a small company having identified their market and tergetted it successfully!

I can't knock WSMR, but we should keep it all in persepctive!

 

[MCR247]

Exactly, and people don't get that. Especially those who go 'WSMR should bid for East Coast.'

 

[steve099]

Exactly, and people don't get that. Especially those who go 'WSMR should bid for East Coast.'

An East Coast bid backed by the financial clout of Deutsche Bahn and the operational excellence of Chiltern Railways? Wouldn't want that, no.

 

[The Planner]

DB will go for the West Coast. You'll find that most of the staff currently working for Virgin would just transfer over anyway, it wouldnt be so cut and dried !!

 

[merlodlliw]

Nice news, but meaningless in terms of comparison with any TOC.

WMSR provide a service aimed at the leisure market which wasn't previously available; no wonder they are going to get high satisfaction results.

You might as well state that your local farm shop has good customer satisfaction and that this should be an example to ASDA - there's really no comparison

A few interesting personal points you make tbtc. having seen the business plan of the Company, leisure is indeed part of it, however business traffic is also a
major contributor, W/S business traffic was the sole reason for VT to run a rival service from Wrexham to London with a feeder ATW dmu to it from Salop.

As for your Comparator, between Associated Dairies and the local farm shop, that's one way of putting it.

 

[Greenback]

Yes, the point, I think is that there's room for both the local farm shop and the supermarket, because they are both offering slightly different services to a different market.

WSMR is not going to wipe out Virgin any more than the farm will force the closure of ASDA. But to say that the farm shop should take over ASDA because its customers are very happy with the service they get, more so than the supermarket, is taking things a little far...!

 

[tbtc]

An East Coast bid backed by the financial clout of Deutsche Bahn and the operational excellence of Chiltern Railways? Wouldn't want that, no.

That's a whole different kettle of fish though. Chiltern don't provide the level of service that WMSR do, unless they are providing three course meals on their 168s I'm not aware of?

WMSR are good at what they do, no doubt, but lets not get carried away with the comparisons

 

[merlodlliw]

Yes, the point, I think is that there's room for both the local farm shop and the supermarket, because they are both offering slightly different services to a different market.

WSMR is not going to wipe out Virgin any more than the farm will force the closure of ASDA. But to say that the farm shop should take over ASDA because its customers are very happy with the service they get, more so than the supermarket, is taking things a little far...!

Agree W/S will not wipe out VT, well it was tried the other way round by the two ugly sisters a while back, but I feel W/S will be around a lot longer than
VT on the rails, we shall see. Recall the little RBS taking over Nat West a few years ago, but they were banks, same league as the Net Rail bosses of today.

What's the weather like in Sir Gâr today.

M

 

[Greenback]

It was cloudy this monring, but the sun has come out now! Should be a lovely evening again!

I'm sure in our hypothetical comparisons all the big suprmarkets would love to wipe out their competition, includng farm shops, they can't because the latter operate within a niche market that the supermarkets simply cannot compete in.

It's the same with WSMR and Virign, as we have seen!

 

[merlodlliw]

It was cloudy this monring, but the sun has come out now! Should be a lovely evening again!

I'm sure in our hypothetical comparisons all the big suprmarkets would love to wipe out their competition, includng farm shops, they can't because the latter operate within a niche market that the supermarkets simply cannot compete in.

It's the same with WSMR and Virign, as we have seen!

Thanks for the banter Greenback, agree about the niche,Weather here,misty drizzle at dawn,now wall to wall sunshine, met a lot of your Carmarthen People at the Cheshire show yesterday, in the WPCS rings, spoiled by the 5 minute take offs from Man Airport, they sound like over nosey vacuum cleaners now, the planes that is.

M

 

[MCR247]

An East Coast bid backed by the financial clout of Deutsche Bahn and the operational excellence of Chiltern Railways? Wouldn't want that, no.

So Chiltern have excellent punctuality. So would that be automatically transferred to East Coast? No. Chiltern is a much easier route to run than east coast. You've got to remember if DB ran east coast I doubt there would be much difference, as I don't see DB providing the WSMR service on CrossCountry anytime soon, do you?

 

[steve099]

So Chiltern have excellent punctuality. So would that be automatically transferred to East Coast? No. Chiltern is a much easier route to run than east coast. You've got to remember if DB ran east coast I doubt there would be much difference, as I don't see DB providing the WSMR service on CrossCountry anytime soon, do you?

I think we're all talking somewhat pie in the sky, aren't we?

Yes, Chiltern are running an insulated line with external operating problems caused only by delayed CrossCountry services. Somewhat different with other franchises whose networks span far greater.

But I would contest that a Deutsche Bahn-run East Coast would be favourable. Of course the present system of government macromanagement of the railways means that in real terms, operators make very little difference as their ability to invest is rather limited.

 

[Daz28]

I think we're all talking somewhat pie in the sky, aren't we?

Yes, Chiltern are running an insulated line with external operating problems caused only by delayed CrossCountry services. Somewhat different with other franchises whose networks span far greater.

I don't get why people keep repeating that Chiltern run an insulated line. Their lines are shared with FGW, CrossCountry, London Midland, several freight operations and of course London Underground, who own and operate a large chunk of the Aylesbury line.

 

[Greenback]

It's largely self contained and has fewer flat junctions than many routes. It doesn;t have catenary that fails in a slight breeze either!

 

[tbtc]

I don't get why people keep repeating that Chiltern run an insulated line. Their lines are shared with FGW, CrossCountry, London Midland, several freight operations and of course London Underground, who own and operate a large chunk of the Aylesbury line.

The one train a day to Paddington has to deal with FGW, true, but most of the Chiltern lines are relatively conflict free, especially the critical part going into London. Contrast this with East Coast who have to share tracks (on the main stretch from London to Leeds/ Edinburgh) with:

First Capital Connect: London to Peterborough
First Hull Trains: London to Doncaster
Grand Central: London to Northallerton
East Midlands Trains: Peterborough to Grantham (IIRC the southbound EMT service has to cross the northbound ECML track twice?)
Northern: Doncaster to Leeds, Newcastle to Morpeth etc
Cross Country: Moorthorpe to Leeds and Doncaster to Edinburgh
ScotRail: Drem to Edinburgh
TPE: York to Newcastle

(A lot of these other services are stopping at all stations (such as the ScotRail service from Drem to Edinburgh), meaning an East Coast service only has to be a minute or two late to end up stuck behind a stopper for a long period)

Lots of freight and a few charter paths too, plus a number of other TOCs trains crossing the ECML at main stations (where they only share ECML track for a short period, but eat up paths, e.g. the Northern/ TPE services from Cleethorpes/ Scunthorpe to Sheffield/ Manchester)

Plus there's bottlenecks at places like Welwyn, Newark etc, and conflicts with local services on "non core" East Coast services, plus some single track sections further north too...

Chiltern have almost a blank sheet of paper to plan their services around - no contest

Always easy to be the underdog and chip into the London - Birmingham market (like Chiltern have done).

 

[barrykas]

The one train a day to Paddington has to deal with FGW, true, but most of the Chiltern lines are relatively conflict free, especially the critical part going into London.

<snip>

Chiltern have almost a blank sheet of paper to plan their services around - no contest

Unlike the East Coast, however, Chiltern is (at least for the time being) a primarily two track railway, making timetable construction a delicate balancing act.

Cheers,

Barry

 

[MCR247]

Unlike the East Coast, however, Chiltern is (at least for the time being) a primarily two track railway, making timetable construction a delicate balancing act.

Cheers,

Barry

East Coast is 4 track. It would be easy if all slows could go on the slow line,but there are every station stoppers from Moorgate to WGC which use the slow lines, but the semi-fasts have to overtake it etc

Also, all of chilterns stock is compatible, so is it possible for a 168 to pass a red signal with permission (from signalman) and couple to a failed 165 in front to clear it?

 

[Daz28]

The one train a day to Paddington has to deal with FGW, true, but most of the Chiltern lines are relatively conflict free, especially the critical part going into London.

It is five FGW trains a day Banbury to Paddington and two in the return direction, all in peak. Crosscountry have two per hour in each direction all day, and I am frequently stuck behind an LM stopper at the Birmingham end.

Of course I am not challenging that the ECML is more complex and congested. I'm just correcting the oft-repeated fallacy that Chiltern have a whole line to themselves.

 

[thefab444]

Remember FGW also run a two hourly Banbury - Oxford shuttle.

 

[jopsuk]

Chiltern's network may not be completely clear of conflict, and their timetable has some complexities, but compared to pretty much any other ToC bar c2c they have reasonably easy time of it.
(in some cases, the conflicts that TOCs have are with themselves- think the various sections of FGW conflicting)
c2c of course is deeply simple- barring freight and the occasional service to Liverpool Street, they have their little network to themselves.

 

[The Planner]

South of Aynho they do have it to themselves. They can and do move things about to their hearts content. They dont really have a difficult time of it south of Dorridge either.

 

[TDK]

South of Aynho they do have it to themselves. They can and do move things about to their hearts content. They dont really have a difficult time of it south of Dorridge either.

South of Dorridge you do get the LM leamington services and XC, from Leamington there is XC and quite a bit of freight, from Aynho all I have seen is the waste trains that run from Ruislip and WSMR of course