XC acquire two exLNER HST power cars

[43 302]

Richard Clinnick has confirmed on twitter that 43 208 + 43 239 are moving across to XC and that they are interested in stock to create a short set. I presume to keep voyager timings.

https://twitter.com/Richard_rail/status/1216723244935524352?s=09

 

[greatvoyager]

Richard Clinnick has confirmed on twitter that 43 208 + 43 239 are moving across to XC and that they are interested in stock to create a short set. I presume to keep voyager timings.

https://twitter.com/Richard_rail/status/1216723244935524352?s=09

Interesting... Are they going to be utilising the five spare MK3s that were previously removed from their HSTs?

 

[RealTrains07]

Richard Clinnick has confirmed on twitter that 43 208 + 43 239 are moving across to XC and that they are interested in stock to create a short set. I presume to keep voyager timings.

https://twitter.com/Richard_rail/status/1216723244935524352?s=09

You think this could mean that the smaller HST sets at EMR could move across to XC too if they want more smaller sets??

 

[43 302]

Interesting... Are they going to be utilising the five spare MK3s that were previously removed from their HSTs?

Not sure, that would make sense (are they all standard class coaches though?). Did wabtec convert them to sliding doors as well?

 

[greatvoyager]

Not sure, that would make sense (are they all standard class coaches though?). Did wabtec convert them to sliding doors as well?

They are all standard class, but I guess once could be converted to 1st class if they are using the spare coaches.
I am not sure about the sliding doors, but considering that sometimes HST carriages are swapped out, I would've thought they would have to have installed sliding doors so they could remain in the fleet.

 

[greatvoyager]

You think this could mean that the smaller HST sets at EMR could move across to XC too if they want more smaller sets??

That depends, XC would have to make them PRM compliant. Would they be able to do that before other types of train would be available?

 

[43 302]

They are all standard class, but I guess once could be converted to 1st class if they are using the spare coaches.
I am not sure about the sliding doors, but considering that sometimes HST carriages are swapped out, I would've thought they would have to have installed sliding doors so they could remain in the fleet.

I presume they would source the coaches elsewhere as I'm sure they would like to keep some spare coaches now I think about it.
Also, if XC are doing this, surely they would get enough coaches and power cars for more than one set I would have thought.

 

[NoOnesFool]

You think this could mean that the smaller HST sets at EMR could move across to XC too if they want more smaller sets??

I wouldn't fancy going from Penzance to Glasgow sitting on an IC70!

 

[Southern Dvr]

I wouldn't fancy going from Penzance to Glasgow sitting on an IC70!

compared to a Voyager though?

 

[greatvoyager]

I wouldn't fancy going from Penzance to Glasgow sitting on an IC70!

I agree with you on that.

 

[greatvoyager]

compared to a Voyager though?

I think that's down to personal preference. I think voyagers have comfortable seats, just a shame the trains aren't big enough.

 

[43 302]

The voyager seats aren't that bad but the under floor engine noise is unbareable for any lengthy journey (in my opinion).

 

[hexagon789]

A recreation of the VXC Challenger 2+5 sets? Or possibly making 2+6 sets across the board with one extra set and the removal of a trailer from each of the others.

 

[158722]

XC only have 5 spare TS or TSD vehicles - no spare TF, TGS or TCC vehicles, so I don't see how that is going to work unless they convert extra coaches from say ex-LNER or modify a TS/TSD or two of their own.

 

[XCTurbostar]

I'd imagine Arriva will treat the first one as a trial, if it works well, they may opt for more in the future.
Lets not forget, RAIL Magazine has previously reported that:

"The potential use of short-formed High Speed Trains by operators other than Great Western Railway is “commercially sensitive”, according to Angel Trains."

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/fleet/speculation-increases-over-use-of-hsts

 

[43096]

Richard Clinnick has confirmed on twitter that 43 208 + 43 239 are moving across to XC and that they are interested in stock to create a short set. I presume to keep voyager timings.

https://twitter.com/Richard_rail/status/1216723244935524352?s=09

If you want to believe everything he writes is the gospel truth, go ahead. Personally I’ll wait and see what happens given the lamentable standard of Rail’s reporting.

 

[43 302]

If you want to believe everything he writes is the gospel truth, go ahead. Personally I’ll wait and see what happens given the lamentable standard of Rail’s reporting.

Given that it had been previously rumoured and reported that WNXX said those two power cars were for XC, I think it is likely.

 

[duffield]

How about: remove the composite std/1st/former buffet coach from one of the existing 7 coach HST sets - already PRM compliant. No significant reduction in std class seats (only 8 std seats lost, and arguably removes over-provision of 1st class)
Make 4 spare TS coaches PRM compliant (? could be done by end of 2020, maybe) and add the composite.

Then you've got an extra 5 coach HST set, voyager timings, with more std class than a 5 coach voyager (I think) to replace one of the 'moderately' overcrowded 5 coach voyagers, and that then frees up a 5 coach voyager to double up on the most overcrowded 5 coach voyager diagram/s.

It's not much, but it's got the advantages that
a) It *should* be relatively quick and simple compared to the pie-in-the-sky of new/other cascaded rolling stock which never seems to happen on XC. With the composite already done, it's just 4 coaches to be PRMed!
b) It doesn't require pathing changes, which seem to be very difficult for XC for obvious reasons
c) No staff training required, no obvious maintenance implications.

It is starting to sound as if something like this might be planned.

Anyhow, maybe I'm missing something obvious which would make this impractical.

I can see one disadvantage, which is that you've now got 1x5, 1x6 and 4x7 coach HST sets and only one set that can really keep to voyager timings, but you might be able to deal with this by re-forming sets and rotating coaches when they are due for maintenance (e.g. reduce the 6 coach set to 5 coaches when the 5 coach set needs maintenance, so it can keep voyager timings). I've no idea how practical this would be but it sounds possible. Maybe another combination would work better.

 

[JonathanH]

There is clearly a benefit to having spare power cars. XC have hired these from LNER in the past when they haven't had enough and they technically don't have any spare if all of their HST sets are formed. In the future, there is no one else to hire these from when one is needed at short notice so a fleet of 12 is needed rather than 10.

In terms of an extra set of coaches, is that just wishful thinking?

 

[virgintrain1]

Surely the most logical solution would to acquire a TGS and TCC ex- LNER to have uniform 7 coach HST fleet. Plus if XC wanted to save some money why not just leave the buffet as is.

 

[class 9]

I'd heard that XC were just after power cars, so power cars could be switched out without taking the whole train out of service, thus enabling the HSTS to be used more & more efficiently.

 

[43 302]

There is clearly a benefit to having spare power cars. XC have hired these from LNER in the past when they haven't had enough and they technically don't have any spare if all of their HST sets are formed. In the future, there is no one else to hire these from when one is needed at short notice so a fleet of 12 is needed rather than 10.

In terms of an extra set of coaches, is that just wishful thinking?

I'd heard that XC were just after power cars, so power cars could be switched out without taking the whole train out of service, thus enabling the HSTS to be used more & more efficiently.

I think this is possible. I would not be surprised if they do not aquire any more Mk3s although I hope they do.

 

[DannyMich2018]

What I cant understand is why they are looking at extra stock when the existing HSTs aren't fully used? I know one set has been in works at Wabtec the last couple or so years but that still leaves 4 sets and on some days only two sets are required and the last set is now at Wabtec so that will bring the fleet back up to five when it returns.

 

[hexagon789]

Surely the most logical solution would to acquire a TGS and TCC ex- LNER to have uniform 7 coach HST fleet. Plus if XC wanted to save some money why not just leave the buffet as is.

The TCC would need to be converted, being unique to XC.

 

[hexagon789]

What I cant understand is why they are looking at extra stock when the existing HSTs aren't fully used?

This is XC, we shouldn't complain at them getting extra stock because it's unheard of!

 

[JonathanH]

What I cant understand is why they are looking at extra stock when the existing HSTs aren't fully used? I know one set has been in works at Wabtec the last couple or so years but that still leaves 4 sets and on some days only two sets are required and the last set is now at Wabtec so that will bring the fleet back up to five when it returns.

It is unlikely they would schedule 5 sets from a fleet of 5. When they first had HSTs, they did diagram 4 of them each day but, due to the different way the two fleets are leased, it made more sense to use Voyagers on less busy days, so they got to the current situation. With the fleet serviced at Laira, it would appear unlikely that they would ever go back to the arrangement that applied initially to run four sets daily.

 

[43096]

It is unlikely they would schedule 5 sets from a fleet of 5. When they first had HSTs, they did diagram 4 of them each day but, due to the different way the two fleets are leased, it made more sense to use Voyagers on less busy days, so they got to the current situation. With the fleet serviced at Laira, it would appear unlikely that they would ever go back to the arrangement that applied initially to run four sets daily.

Was it not stated when the last Direct Award started that they would use 4 sets daily once the sliding door programme was completed?

 

[lammergeier]

Was it not stated when the last Direct Award started that they would use 4 sets daily once the sliding door programme was completed?

ISTR something about this too. Another spare pair of power cars would help this be reliably achieved without the need for extra vehicles. Even if the tweet from Rich Clinnick is correct and XC are indeed after more pssenger vehicles, 4 daily rakes from 6 would be easier than 4 from 5.

 

[nat67]

XC only have 5 spare TS or TSD vehicles - no spare TF, TGS or TCC vehicles, so I don't see how that is going to work unless they convert extra coaches from say ex-LNER or modify a TS/TSD or two of their own.

There's too much speculation here. At first it was to get 2 spare power cars. And converting the 5 spare mk3's is totally pointless as you would have no spares at all then. Either use one of the EMR ex GC sets or use some of the Angel ex LNER MK3's that are stored at Ely.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

At last some great news - I imagine the short HST would be used on services where they can easily return to Laira?

To be fair, I don't care what service it gets used on - more seats either way.

Assuming the short HST is 5 coaches, I guess it will displace a 5-car Voyager to displace a 4-car to couple up to another 4-car Voyager to make an 8-car Voyager?