XC Voyager Refurbishment

[Bletchleyite]

Really pleasing news, I was worried XC wouldn't get any and was dissapointed only to see 7. As others have said 12 is a significant uplift on the HST capacity. Shame it's going to take another year to get them all.

Interesting that Wakefield Westgate and Chesterfield are being dropped over the summer to remove local journeys. It does go to show how important regional services are to relieve pressure on intercity services.

It's rather less underhand than the act I caught Avanti in this weekend, namely only releasing quotas for longer distance trips on the Euston-Brums last Sunday.

 

[Anonymous10]

Some diagrams can't be doubled either such as the Reading-Newcastle due to length of the bays at Newcastle.

Does that rule out portion working at the busiest stretches?

 

[Wyrleybart]

I think they have 54 units, but how many diagrams that equates to after allowing for maintenance and those that are already double units I can’t say.

Also it only works if you start the reshuffle by replacing a 4 with a 5. Once you’ve run out of 4s then the 3 diagrams per extra unit ratio comes down.

XC currently have
220001-220034
221119-221141
221144

Total 34+24=58

 

[AndyB56]

I wonder if the half-hourly Northern 2 coach 195s can cope with the extra passengers for Sheffield from Wakefield due to XC axing the call. I wonder when timetables will get updated to reflect the axing of certain stations to avoid being overloaded by local passengers (I doubt they will axe the calls at Wolverhampton or Coventry though)

---

As for XC getting more voyagers, good, hopefully they can be pressed into service ASAP, even though the seat layout in coach D (at least) is completely different which might screw up reservations.

Nope services at Wakefield Westgate will be a nightmare. On top of this the Doncaster service at Wakefield Westgate immediately after the XC service has also been just cut down from 4 carriages to 3 carriages - ill thought out.

Nope services at Wakefield Westgate will be a nightmare. On top of this the Doncaster service at Wakefield Westgate immediately after the XC service has also been just cut down from 4 carriages to 3 carriages - ill thought out.

This is in the Leeds direction at rush hour by the way.

 

[Wyrleybart]

The 12 extra units should be enough for either 5 cars or 4+4 cars on all diagrams.

XC can make more diagrams double voyagers by attaching an extra unit around the XC core. E.g. on the Manchester - Bournemouth runs detaching/attaching the front unit at Reading where there is already a reversal. XC already try to attach/detach units on route but they need sufficient staff to allow it.

I believe XC are planning a Cardiff - Ediinburgh and Edinburgh - Cardiff portion pair soon. The southbound 1V64 1305 Edinburgh - Plymouth currently splits at Gloucester with half running ECS to Central Rivers. At present 1V64 units are formed off 1S33 I understand the plan is for the split set at Gloucester is to run forward to Cardiff.

I think I have read that the 0945 service from Cardiff (currently 1M60) will be a voyager and couple to something heading north

 

[James Kevill]

Since CrossCountry are getting 12 Class 221 Super Voyager units but not 18, does it mean it will create more and new services? Grand Central has 2 units, while the 6 units will be stored away, unless Grand Union the new operator, which is coming soon will get them.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Since CrossCountry are getting 12 Class 221 Super Voyager units but not 18, does it mean it will create more and new services? Grand Central has 2 units, while the 6 units will be stored away, unless Grand Union the new operator, which is coming soon will get them.

Nobody knows for sure Grand Central has 2 units for good... it's currently got two, but there's nothing to say it's not just a short-term arrangement.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Since CrossCountry are getting 12 Class 221 Super Voyager units but not 18, does it mean it will create more and new services?

Not necessarily. There is a desperate need to increase capacity on existing services, and those 12 units, through clever juggling and switching around which are 4 and 5 car sets, could make a reasonably meaningful improvement to a large number of diagrams. I think that should come before introducing additional services, except possibly to the extent of reinstatement of pre COVID services which have yet to resume.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Some diagrams can't be doubled either such as the Reading-Newcastle due to length of the bays at Newcastle.

Here's a wildcard - could we see an extension to Morpeth, if more stock became available to extend the services and the bays couldn't take the extra length?

 

[trainswitheddy]

Nobody knows for sure Grand Central has 2 units for good... it's currently got two, but there's nothing to say it's not just a short-term arrangement.

Not to go too off topic but believe it's been said GC aren't interested in expanding the lease beyond the summer due to 221s being incompatible with the East Coast signalling upgrade

 

[dk1]

Here's a wildcard - could we see an extension to Morpeth, if more stock became available to extend the services and the bays couldn't take the extra length?

I would say not.

 

[AlastairFraser]

I would say not.

OK, care to expand?

 

[dk1]

OK, care to expand?

What would be the sense in doing that?

From what I can see it would be additional mileage, possibly additional crews & would add unnecessary congestion to the busy ECML whilst additional platform duties & shunting took place. Better to spin them at York should they show interest in doubling the units.

The Plymouth-Edinburgh would quite rightly be the priority for doubling up. There are after all only 12 additional 221s.

 

[AlastairFraser]

What would be the sense in doing that?

From what I can see it would be additional mileage, possibly additional crews & would add unnecessary congestion to the busy ECML whilst additional platform duties & shunting took place. Better to spin them at York should they show interest in doubling the units.

The Plymouth-Edinburgh would quite rightly be the priority for doubling up. There are after all only 12 additional 221s.

You have a fair point. Maybe a split at York, rather then completely spinning them, because you don't want to lose passenger capacity on the ECML.

 

[dk1]

You have a fair point. Maybe a split at York, rather then completely spinning them, because you don't want to lose passenger capacity on the ECML.

That would be an option if drivers are available and scheduling allows time for attatching/detatching at York. Considering the Reading/Newcastle always seems of a lower priority I wonder if there are actually any plans to double those up anyway. Seems rather an operational headache.

 

[baza585]

Is anyone able to provide a link giving details of changes to Basingstoke and Winchester please.

This might not be all good news......

 

[paulmch]

Could they possibly squeeze a little bit more out of the new units by upping the current 4+4 diagrams to a 4+5, thus releasing a 4 to make a new 4+4 in place of a 5, and using the 5 to take the place of the original 4? My head hurts...

 

[swt_passenger]

Is anyone able to provide a link giving details of changes to Basingstoke and Winchester please.

This might not be all good news......

It’s stated in the article that was quoted in the parallel thread in the speculation section. Doesn’t say much more than you’ve written:https://railuk.com/travel/crosscountry-plans-to-transform-customer-experience-by-may-2025/

Here's a wildcard - could we see an extension to Morpeth, if more stock became available to extend the services and the bays couldn't take the extra length?

Half the “Newcastle trains” are not being reinstated anyway, as discussed in the ECML timetable threads they’ll not run north of York. So they aren’t going to be there to extend. I think the increased TPE Newcastle to Edinburgh semifast and Northern stopper will presumably deal with Morpeth to Newcastle demand anyway.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Could they possibly squeeze a little bit more out of the new units by upping the current 4+4 diagrams to a 4+5, thus releasing a 4 to make a new 4+4 in place of a 5, and using the 5 to take the place of the original 4? My head hurts...

Yes. See my explanation of how this works in post 189. You can actually increase capacity on three diagrams for every additional 5 car set.

Worth noting too that replacing a 4 car set with a 5 car set will increase standard class capacity by around a third, which is a very meaningful increase.

 

[Wookiee]

Will the Avanti sets have the tilt mechanism disabled? (Sorry if this has already been asked and answered, I've only skim-read the thread.)

 

[DarloRich]

Apparently Voyagers are "iconic" - they do deserve some TLC. By yeeting them into the sea.

For more than 20 years, CrossCountry's Voyagers have proudly served towns and cities across Great Britain – travelling millions of miles in the process. We now look forward to giving these iconic Alstom-built trains some well-deserved TLC with a comprehensive overhaul that will include new seats, on-board technology enhancements and an exterior repaint

CrossCountry announces more trains and major refurbishment programme

CrossCountry Trains has announced that it is adding extra trains to its fleet, and that all its existing trains are to undergo a major refurbishment.

www.railadvent.co.uk

Not only will the refurbishment delight fare-paying customers with increased levels of comfort and accessibility, the overhaul programme will support UK suppliers and skilled jobs across the country.

apparently the refurbishment will "delight" (High) fare paying customers. Aye. right.

(sigh)

 

[dereksingh291]

When will the refurbishment of the XC Turbostars and Voyagers take place?

 

[Bletchleyite]

apparently the refurbishment will "delight" (High) fare paying customers. Aye. right.

My confidence in Arriva is admittedly low, but it *could* be good - the Pendolino was transformative.

 

[Brissle Girl]

My confidence in Arriva is admittedly low, but it *could* be good - the Pendolino was transformative.

Remember the DfT holds all the purse strings, so the extent of the transformation, and the quality of it will be entirely dictated by them.

 

[swt_passenger]

When will the refurbishment of the XC Turbostars and Voyagers take place?

Voyagers late 2024 until Sep 2026 according to post #65, ie not starting until the first WCML units have arrived. I haven’t seen the 170s mentioned.

 

[DarloRich]

My confidence in Arriva is admittedly low, but it *could* be good - the Pendolino was transformative.

it could be - but you cant make a silk purse out of a sows ear! ( especially if you don't pay for silk in the first place)

Admittedly the Virgin/Avanti Voyagers are nicer than the XC version but they are still voyagers. I have been scarred by too many horrible XC journeys.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Admittedly the Virgin/Avanti Voyagers are nicer than the XC version but they are still voyagers. I have been scarred by too many horrible XC journeys.

I can see why, but I don't mind quiet double sets on Avanti, and it would be nice if the refurb meant I could fit any seat as per the Pendolino one. They do have some things going for them, e.g. massive windows. Definitely used to prefer one to a Pendolino over Shap for scenery appreciation!

 

[DarloRich]

but I don't mind quiet double sets on Avanti,

as i say: the avanti ones are better than the XC ones and can be tolerable if quiet. The XC ones aren't tolerable.

 

[modernrail]

Sorry if I have missed it but do we have any images or know any further details on the refurb?

To be fair, the best bit of any refurb on XC would be the sight of a seat without a bum already on it. Everything after that is luxury.

 

[fgwrich]

Apparently Voyagers are "iconic" - they do deserve some TLC. By yeeting them into the sea.

CrossCountry announces more trains and major refurbishment programme

CrossCountry Trains has announced that it is adding extra trains to its fleet, and that all its existing trains are to undergo a major refurbishment.

www.railadvent.co.uk

apparently the refurbishment will "delight" (High) fare paying customers. Aye. right.

(sigh)

Two Words : Rail Advent. The tabloid of railway journalism, they know how to publish some utter dross!