XC Voyager Refurbishment

[sprinterguy]

Indeed, but I think there seems to be quite a few double sets these days on the Bournemouth route so this is perhaps what is swallowing up the sets.

Two departures from Bournemouth were double sets today - the usual two diagrams on that route. There were four northbound from Plymouth, and there are further double sets on the South West - North West route that attach at Bristol for points further north.

 

[Killingworth]

From Derby, Real-time trains suggests that train was only 4 carriages. Almost wondered if it was an empty set move back to Central Rivers.

It probably will have been! In January we thought we'd been clever and booked split ticketing to Sheffield on a 9 car train. Instead of playing musical chairs we opted for an unbooked carriage in the 5 car second part. Train filled up at New Street so seemed a good plan.

Too clever by half, eh? At Derby all turfed off to pile into front 4 and had to stand all the way from there!

 

[DannyMich2018]

With Avanti Class 221s coming off lease in the coming months I wonder if all the 221s can be reformed back to their original formations so XCs 221136 and 221140 can go back to 5 cars? Be extra capacity.

 

[Wyrleybart]

With Avanti Class 221s coming off lease in the coming months I wonder if all the 221s can be reformed back to their original formations so XCs 221136 and 221140 can go back to 5 cars? Be extra capacity.

Why would they want to do that ?
221141-221144 were built as 4 car units - originally for Virgin West Coast Holyhead services.
The class 221 fleet was shuffled around and the West Coast units refurbed and reformed. So unless all class 221s are going to be overhauled and retrimmed to the same standard it would be pointless. Fleet and maintenance keep multiple unit vehicles to similar mileages for components and component exchanges

 

[Jozhua]

Granted, the current seats are comfy, but so space inefficient with how thick they are! I’d love a bit more legroom, and you can forget about using a laptop with the current seats…

I wonder if this refurb will include the speculated rebrand of XC that was discussed a few months ago… nothing seems to have come of that.

Change to XC Branding

One of my friends who are friends with a driver just told me that XC will be having a full refresh as well as reliveried trains, apparently turquoise. Does anyone know more info about this and if its true?

www.railforums.co.uk

As someone who is over 6ft and likes sleeping on public transport, having extra legroom tbh is of more benefit than a soft seat.

Although my experience, especially with newer Ryanair Seats is that thinner can actually improve on comfort with the right cushioning (rather than taping carpet directly to the plastic, as seems to have been done on LNER/Thameslink)

 

[LittleRedTrain]

From Derby, Real-time trains suggests that train was only 4 carriages. Almost wondered if it was an empty set move back to Central Rivers.

May well have been the case, that could also explain why we ran via the Camp Hill line into New Street, so it'd be at the back for easy detachment at Derby.
Still, regardless of the reason, it doesn't excuse the poor information provided to passengers. If we'd been told in advance, everyone would've been in the right part of the platform to board and the delay would have been much reduced. There was also no apology/explanation from the train crew onbaord.

Even if it had been a set move, unless there was actually a fault that made it unsuitable for passenger use, a bit of extra capacity Bristol-Derby wouldn't have gone amiss on the evening of a bank holiday Monday!

 

[Goldfish62]

Indeed, but I think there seems to be quite a few double sets these days on the Bournemouth route so this is perhaps what is swallowing up the sets.

Northbound, intending passengers at Oxford, Banbury and Leamington Spa get left behind on a regular basis. Remember that last May the Reading - Birmingham corridor effectively had capacity cut by almost 50% by reducing most trains to single units but only adding in a handful of Reading - Newcastle services, which hardly ever seem to run anyway.

 

[Energy]

Northbound, intending passengers at Oxford, Banbury and Leamington Spa get left behind on a regular basis. Remember that last May the Reading - Birmingham corridor effectively had capacity cut by almost 50% by reducing most trains to single units but only adding in a handful of Reading - Newcastle services, which hardly ever seem to run anyway.

Indeed, both services are busy so I don't get this argument that one service is taking up the precious double-voyager sets when both need them. Hopefully the extra 221s get most services up to 5 car off peak/ 8 car peak.

 

[150249]

You have a Exeter-centric view on all routes. You also say Paddington Plymouth deserves the bulk of the 9 car IETs. I can’t help seeing it as bias.

Just saying, I know I'm Exeter based, but I was on a full and standing Plymouth Paddington service operated by 800304 a few days ago.

A 4 coach voyager from Scotland is a joke

 

[GoneSouth]

It probably will have been! In January we thought we'd been clever and booked split ticketing to Sheffield on a 9 car train. Instead of playing musical chairs we opted for an unbooked carriage in the 5 car second part. Train filled up at New Street so seemed a good plan.

Too clever by half, eh? At Derby all turfed off to pile into front 4 and had to stand all the way from there!

Always sit in the front on XC, you never know when you’ll get bumped off the back portion! Like you I’ve learned that to my cost a couple of times having to run down the platform at Brum or Derby only to find the rest of my journey will be standing!

On the other hand, there used to be one southbound that split at Gloucester, in which case you need to be in the back, which then becomes the front after reversing. Bloomin’ heck it’s complicated trying to bag a seat with XC sometimes Oh the joy of buying many trains that are too short!

 

[irish_rail]

You have a Exeter-centric view on all routes. You also say Paddington Plymouth deserves the bulk of the 9 car IETs. I can’t help seeing it as bias.

Oh and so where do you suggest we use the 9 car sets? Bristol and Cardiff already gets 2tph so if one of those is a 5 car it isn't the end of the world. Yet short form the hourly Plymouth service and all hell breaks loose. Not to mention the far longer journey times that make standing particularly unrealistic. I cannot imagine a better route for the 9 car sets than the Penzance route (certainly once the new sidings open at Long Rock later this year).

Just saying, I know I'm Exeter based, but I was on a full and standing Plymouth Paddington service operated by 800304 a few days ago.

A 4 coach voyager from Scotland is a joke

Indeed. Sunday the 8.15 off Plymouth was a 5 vice 10 and was so overcrowded they had to knock stops out. Similarly on the voyagers, when a 4 car turns up at Bristol heading south and its already full, the potential passenger has either an hour wait or the all stations stopper. It isn't good enough. These new Avanti units cannot come soon enough. Let's just hope they are used where the demand actually is.

 

[Bletchleyite]

As someone who is over 6ft and likes sleeping on public transport, having extra legroom tbh is of more benefit than a soft seat.

From my experience of the FISA LEAN legroom will either be the same or worse. It's a flawed design - most taller people are men, and most men don't have legs so skinny they can sit with them jammed together in the niche. The right place to have the extra space is at the edges of the seat as the two good designs - the 175/180 seat and the new Pendolino one - do. The thick support pillar goes in the middle where mens' knees typically don't.

 

[Trainman40083]

It probably will have been! In January we thought we'd been clever and booked split ticketing to Sheffield on a 9 car train. Instead of playing musical chairs we opted for an unbooked carriage in the 5 car second part. Train filled up at New Street so seemed a good plan.

Too clever by half, eh? At Derby all turfed off to pile into front 4 and had to stand all the way from there!

Noted 1V50 off Derby just was a 10 car today

 

[DannyMich2018]

Why would they want to do that ?
221141-221144 were built as 4 car units - originally for Virgin West Coast Holyhead services.
The class 221 fleet was shuffled around and the West Coast units refurbed and reformed. So unless all class 221s are going to be overhauled and retrimmed to the same standard it would be pointless. Fleet and maintenance keep multiple unit vehicles to similar mileages for components and component exchanges

Well if Avanti off leases any surely they need to be put back in their original formations they were built in for handback?

 

[43096]

Well if Avanti off leases any surely they need to be put back in their original formations they were built in for handback?

Unless the ROSCO agrees otherwise.

 

[Jozhua]

From my experience of the FISA LEAN legroom will either be the same or worse. It's a flawed design - most taller people are men, and most men don't have legs so skinny they can sit with them jammed together in the niche. The right place to have the extra space is at the edges of the seat as the two good designs - the 175/180 seat and the new Pendolino one - do. The thick support pillar goes in the middle where mens' knees typically don't.

It was quite a while ago now since I was last on an 80X, but I think I can recall what they are like and yes, the legroom is more central to the seat.

I don't think anyone would be particularly comfortable having to keep their legs jammed together for hours at a time either!

In general, I feel like anyone over 5ft 10 isn't that well catered for on any train...

 

[Bletchleyite]

It was quite a while ago now since I was last on an 80X, but I think I can recall what they are like and yes, the legroom is more central to the seat.

80x don't have FISA LEAN. If you want to try one, you want a Greater Anglia FLIRT or a Class 196. The latter notably have absolutely terrible legroom as a result of this poorly designed seat frame. (The cushion is fine in itself, similar to Desiro seats).

The Sophia used on 80x near enough has a flat back.

In general, I feel like anyone over 5ft 10 isn't that well catered for on any train...

I'm 6' 4" and find both 80x and refurbished Pendolinos quite decent for legroom. Of course if you have a particularly long upper leg (this is what makes most difference) you may not agree.

 

[aar0]

I'm 6' 4" and find both 80x and refurbished Pendolinos quite decent for legroom. Of course if you have a particularly long upper leg (this is what makes most difference) you may not agree.

I’m 6’ 6” and the 80xs have class leading legroom in standard, and I can fairly happily use my laptop for an hour or so. Numb bum after that though!

 

[py_megapixel]

80x don't have FISA LEAN. If you want to try one, you want a Greater Anglia FLIRT or a Class 196. The latter notably have absolutely terrible legroom as a result of this poorly designed seat frame. (The cushion is fine in itself, similar to Desiro seats).

The Sophia used on 80x near enough has a flat back.



I'm 6' 4" and find both 80x and refurbished Pendolinos quite decent for legroom. Of course if you have a particularly long upper leg (this is what makes most difference) you may not agree.

I'm the same height, and I find the headrest wings on the 196s' seats dig into my shoulders when I'm sat down. This problem is in my opinion a much greater contributor to my discomfort in those seats than the limited legroom is.

 

[The Ham]

It was quite a while ago now since I was last on an 80X, but I think I can recall what they are like and yes, the legroom is more central to the seat.

I don't think anyone would be particularly comfortable having to keep their legs jammed together for hours at a time either!

In general, I feel like anyone over 5ft 10 isn't that well catered for on any train...

Depends on how your body is proportioned, I'm 6 foot and there are cars where I can't sit in them without hurting my head but someone who was 6 foot 4 didn't. Just because a bigger portion of my body height is in my upper body, whilst there's was in their legs.

 

[sufian123]

this is showing as 221116 ex Avanti voyager.

Realtime Trains | 1640 Newcastle to Plymouth | 02/06/2024

Real-time train running information for 1640 departure from Newcastle to Plymouth on 02/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[ls2270]

this is showing as 221116 ex Avanti voyager.

Realtime Trains | 1640 Newcastle to Plymouth | 02/06/2024

Real-time train running information for 1640 departure from Newcastle to Plymouth on 02/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Yes this is showing the same on Trust.

 

[sufian123]

Yes this is showing the same on Trust.

Thanks

 

[fgwrich]

this is showing as 221116 ex Avanti voyager.

Realtime Trains | 1640 Newcastle to Plymouth | 02/06/2024

Real-time train running information for 1640 departure from Newcastle to Plymouth on 02/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

The inbound is this, the 09:03 from New Street.

Realtime Trains | 1S37 0903 Birmingham New Street to Edinburgh | 02/06/2024

Real-time train running information for 1S37 0903 departure from Birmingham New Street to Edinburgh on 02/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[GoneSouth]

The inbound is this, the 09:03 from New Street.

Realtime Trains | 1S37 0903 Birmingham New Street to Edinburgh | 02/06/2024

Real-time train running information for 1S37 0903 departure from Birmingham New Street to Edinburgh on 02/06/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Have they even debranded it? RTT shows it in full XC livery, which I doubt, and hope it is not

 

[virgintrain1]

Have they even debranded it? RTT shows it in full XC livery, which I doubt, and hope it is not

Hybrid livery mix of VT, Avanti and XC!

 

[150249]

Have they even debranded it? RTT shows it in full XC livery, which I doubt, and hope it is not

Photo posted on Facebook shows it in debranded avanti with XC logos

 

[wls1]

Does it still have the shop onboard? Or have they removed it in the time it wasn't running

 

[Trainman40083]

Yes this is showing the same on Trust.

Indeed it is 221116 now in Cross Country livery, but I've heard it isn't very well approaching Darlington.

 

[Energy]

Hybrid livery mix of VT, Avanti and XC!

I think the only bit of proper VT remaining is the red roof. Neither Avanti nor XC repainted it, so it still sat under a lot of dirt. 221101 had its roof repainted but in the final year of VTWC so it doesn't count.