Yet more signalling issues affecting FCC (11/05/2012)

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tsr

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Delays have been steadily increasing all day on FCC's Thameslink routes due to signalling problems. Delays are now up to 75 minutes in total, and show no signs of being resolved before the evening peak.

Firstly:

Delays between Luton and London St Pancras International until further notice
14:53 - 11/05/2012

Incident created
11/05/2012 10:17

Train operators affected
East Midlands Trains , First Capital Connect , Southeastern

Description
A signalling problem is causing disruption at Kentish Town.

Because of this, there are delays of up to 60 minutes between Luton and London St Pancras International. These delays will continue until further notice.

Southeastern / First Capital Connect trains between Sevenoaks and Kentish Town will start from / terminate at City Thameslink. Customers should use alternative trains between City Thameslink and Kentish Town, or use London Underground Northern Line services between Bank and Kentish Town.

First Capital Connect customers may use London Underground, East Midlands Trains and First Capital Connect (Great Northern) services via any reasonable route.

Secondly:

Delays between London Bridge and East Croydon / Crystal Palace until further notice
14:32 - 11/05/2012

Incident created
11/05/2012 14:01

Route affected
London Bridge, New Cross Gate, Forest Hill, Sydenham, Norwood Junction & East Croydon also London Blackfriars, London Bridge, East Croydon, Gatwick Airport & Brighton

Train operators affected
First Capital Connect, London Overground, Southern

Description
A signalling problem is causing disruption at Sydenham
There are delays of up to 15 minutes between London Bridge and East Croydon / Crystal Palace. These delays will continue until further notice.

Ticket acceptance:
Southern passengers are being accepted by London Overground on all reasonable routes.

Is there any news from anyone "on the ground"? Does anyone know if the Kentish Town problems are related to yesterday's issues? The Sydenham problem has been recurring all day, unfortunately!

I hope this isn't the start of another series of signalling problems for FCC (well, if the series ever stopped in the first place, although the TL Core does now seem to be a little more reliable than of late).
 
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R

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Pleased that they are now terminating the Sevenoaks trains at City, did think that would be a sensible solution myself to minimize the amount of trains passing through Kentish Town - the problem is at Carlton Rd. Junction I believe.
 

philjo

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This alteration may catch people out:

17:40 West Hampstead Thameslink to Sevenoaks due 19:12
This train will be started from London Victoria at 18:07.
This train will call additionally at London Victoria.
This train will no longer call at West Hampstead Thameslink, St Pancras International, Farringdon, City Thameslink, London Blackfriars and Elephant & Castle.
This is due to signalling problems.
Message Received :11/05/2012 15:21
 

tsr

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Pleased that they are now terminating the Sevenoaks trains at City, did think that would be a sensible solution myself to minimize the amount of trains passing through Kentish Town - the problem is at Carlton Rd. Junction I believe.

Yes, I noted that development with interest.

Thanks for telling us the location of the issue, too. I expect you're probably right.
 

bicbasher

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The Sydenham problem is affecting Southern Metro services again with the Outer SLL running on the fast line between New Cross Gate (for interchange with London Overground) and Crystal Palace and most 10 car peak services from London Bridge to West Croydon services cancelled.
 

rdwarr

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FCC Website is down to one "Emergency Announcement" page but a colleague reports that FCC are tweeting that the problem has been resolved.

Just noticed that most of the trains through London are cancelled. Nothing going North from Blackfriars between 18:06 and 18:36! Will have to leave early.
 
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tsr

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A friend of mine has had to divert his journey from the Bank area (I believe he normally walks to London Bridge from his workplace in the area) and has currently taken an hour to go to East Croydon via Victoria... and his journey doesn't stop there, either. There appears to be major congestion throughout the TL Core and on surrounding routes (MML and BML).
 

Bald Rick

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Is there any news from anyone "on the ground"? Does anyone know if the Kentish Town problems are related to yesterday's issues? The Sydenham problem has been recurring all day, unfortunately!

I hope this isn't the start of another series of signalling problems for FCC (well, if the series ever stopped in the first place, although the TL Core does now seem to be a little more reliable than of late).

Very different issue to yesterday. +1 to hoping it isn't the start of something.
 

philjo

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Not forgetting the 90 minute delays due to signalling problems on the GN side at Hitchin (IIRC)... were those last Sunday?

Problem at Hitchin was yesterday morning (Thursday) - though after the morning peak.
 

londonmidland

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Yet more problems... From National Rail Enquires website - "A signalling problem is causing disruption at Leagrave.
Because of this, there are delays of up to 45 minutes between Luton and Bedford. These delays will continue until further notice."

UPDATE: "A signalling problem is causing disruption at Leagrave.
Because of this, buses are replacing trains between Luton and Bedford, with journey times extended by up to 30 minutes. This will continue until further notice."
 
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ChiefPlanner

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This is getting very serious - EMT strike problems , 2 days of core disruptions , major issues all week on the Brighton line ......not exactly a credible service to the public for whatever reasons - especially with airport dependancies.....
 

tsr

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This is getting very serious - EMT strike problems , 2 days of core disruptions , major issues all week on the Brighton line ......not exactly a credible service to the public for whatever reasons - especially with airport dependancies.....

I couldn't have put it better myself.

What with the problems in the recent past with the Core signalling, I suspect public opinion of this route is pretty low. Unfortunately, there are too few alternatives for the large populations served to fall back on, and the route and trains themselves are overcrowded and hectic enough without all this, too.

On the most fundamental of all levels, there appear to be so many separate problems, and this is a system with too many integrated parts to cope with the risk of failure.

When you see what happens to the TL route, the Tube looks like a great system, albeit one that is also overcrowded and one that has had well over a century (in parts) to have its staff and planners learn lessons.
 

YorkshireBear

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What is it causing the constant failure of the signalling system on thameslink? And is there any way of stopping it happening? I don't know much about recent developments on the line, is it new signalling that is going or is the signalling on thameslink yet to be upgraded.
 

Class377/5

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What is it causing the constant failure of the signalling system on thameslink? And is there any way of stopping it happening? I don't know much about recent developments on the line, is it new signalling that is going or is the signalling on thameslink yet to be upgraded.

There been a lot of failures on both old and new systems on the route. The last two days were older equipment failures.

Resignalling of the Core of Thameslink went live last month throughout the whole core.
 

londonmidland

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From Twitter - INFO: Trains between Bedford and Luton currently at a stand still due to a signalling problem. More info to follow...

UPDATE: A signalling problem is causing disruption at Leagrave. Because of this, there are delays up to 60 minutes to train between Bedford and Luton. These delays will continue until further notice. East Midlands Trains passengers may use London Midland services between Northampton and London Euston.

UPDATE: No trains are running between Bedford and Luton - problem is currently being assesed by @networkrail
 
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tsr

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From Twitter - INFO: Trains between Bedford and Luton currently at a stand still due to a signalling problem. More info to follow...

UPDATE: A signalling problem is causing disruption at Leagrave. Because of this, there are delays up to 60 minutes to train between Bedford and Luton. These delays will continue until further notice. East Midlands Trains passengers may use London Midland services between Northampton and London Euston.

UPDATE: No trains are running between Bedford and Luton - problem is currently being assesed by @networkrail

The delays should officially now be down to 20 minutes, something that is backed up by the LDBs, but there are a good number of ongoing cancellations.

I have a hunch that this problem is a track circuit failure - can anyone confirm or deny this?

This week has simply been disgraceful. Most of the problems appear to have been caused by NR infrastructure. Somebody needs a very good talking to.

EDIT: Despite official assurance that the problem has been fixed, there are still many delays and cancellations, and I can't be sure that a recurrence of the issue hasn't occurred.
 
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ChiefPlanner

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For whatever reasons FCC and EMT get a bad press , this level of "core" failures really does need a concentrated level of attention , ....the TOCs and FOC's here are really getting more than a bad deal.
 
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Don't the trains start running through the core @ weekends and through the night from next week?

Oh, dear:eek::D

In fact today is the last day of no weekend through trains as there is a through service tomorrow and the "official" start of through trains is next Saturday.

Mondays to Fridays go through overnight from 21 May.
 

Class377/5

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In fact today is the last day of no weekend through trains as there is a through service tomorrow and the "official" start of through trains is next Saturday.

Mondays to Fridays go through overnight from 21 May.

And tomorrow sees every FCC train go via London Bridge! Even the Lutton to Streatham's.
 

londonmidland

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Got some useful information (not allowed to say who as works for Network Rail) about the signalling problems.

"Main problem is loss of incoming electrical supply to Flitwick relay room that controls Elstow (Bedford South) to Leagrave North section. A stand by portable generator now in use. Friday had new module failure at Kentish Town affecting all FCC northbound passing 2 signals at red. Leagrave Junction also 'broken' as new point renewal running behind in fact some points missing and have plain line. Fault on Friday in signal overlap from plat 2 ,3 & 4 at Kentish Town (where Down Moorgate becomes Down slow) but that is the ONLY down route available for down Moorgate. Down relief or down slow so no diversion route for FCC northbound, service should have been thinned out."

Please note I had permission to put this information on this forum by that person.
 

tsr

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Down relief or down slow so no diversion route for FCC northbound, service should have been thinned out.

I'm semi-reliably informed that FCC's opinion on running services at the time was somewhat along the lines of "all or nothing", and then things started to go spectacularly wrong.

Many thanks for posting that further information.
 
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