York Station Saturday Night Clownocracy

[g8bvl]

The folk that have caused these impositions, are visiting York due to the number of bars in a close area.
I don't know for sure, but I have a suspiscion there must be a prize offered in the North East, for the first stag/hen or birthday party to drink York dry on a Saturday.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

As a popular pub crawl destination for communities across the north, York certainly does have a problem with rowdy, intoxicated groups who have little to no respect to others that is disproportionate to what would be expected of a city of that size. Working for a TOC that serves the city, I know that we have problem trains from York at certain times on a Friday and Saturday night, and have talked to traincrew who are resigned to the behaviours seen when working these trains: As such, I believe that the dry station and dry trains initiative, applied to an appropriate time period where the problem is at its' peak, is very much justified.

I've seen a similar scene in Chester on a Friday night. I suspect that the factors include:
A compact city centre with lots of pubs that lend themselves to 'crawls'; small overstretched police forces; a large rural hinterland and other big cities close by and easily accessible on public transport - what we might actually be seeing is problem drinkers displaced from Leeds or Liverpool descending on these smaller places instead. The notorious 'stag night' scene may also come into play.

I like a pint or two of real ale as much as the next man or woman, but it goes way beyond high spirits. What we're seeing is downright antisocial behaviour - nasty, violent and dangerous. I don't for one moment think that slapping a 'no alcohol' order on the station area is going to solve the problem, but I suppose the rail operators can't be seen to be contributing to it in any way. I pity the poor train and bus crews who have to ferry this lot home every weekend...

 

[Bald Rick]

The folk that have caused these impositions, are visiting York due to the number of bars in a close area.
I don't know for sure, but I have a suspiscion there must be a prize offered in the North East, for the first stag/hen or birthday party to drink York dry on a Saturday.

I once counted 15 separate hen nights in York on a May Saturday. The amazing thing was that none of them had the same fancy dress.

 

[Senex]

The folk that have caused these impositions, are visiting York due to the number of bars in a close area.
I don't know for sure, but I have a suspiscion there must be a prize offered in the North East, for the first stag/hen or birthday party to drink York dry on a Saturday.

There are certainly huge numbers of these parties and they must do great things for the profits of the various drinking establishments. However, they are also responsible for significant numbers of local people and other sorts of tourists choosing not to go into the city centre in the weekend evenings (as well for for a significant number of places needing serious street-cleaning the following mornings). I wonder how much money they cost / cause to be lost to the city and the establishments other than those they frequent.

 

[matchmaker]

In ages past, men drank ale merely because water was often impure. As we've got pure water, ale is unnecessary, rendering its consumption a vice.

We have a troll - I hope.

 

[yorksrob]

In ages past, men drank ale merely because water was often impure. As we've got pure water, ale is unnecessary, rendering its consumption a vice.

Apart from the fact that ale tastes far better.

 

[mike57]

Perhaps the solution is to hand down sentences to those who drink too much and become violent or abusive which act as a deterent to others, fines into £1000's or long prison terms, rather than affecting people who are going to enjoy a drink and not bother other people.

I feel that there something inherently wrong in punishing the majority because of a minority who abuse society, deal with the minority in way which means that others who may consider acting in a similar manner dont as the 'crime is not worth the time'. And if they dont learn the lesson the first time get them off the streets for a substantial tme, years if they have abused staff.

 

[planetf1]

I don't disagree with the intent bit the practicalities are huge.. I have no problem with happy albeit a little boat hen parties.... The issue is when this become abusive or violent or disrespectful as opposed to being happy with lots of hugs...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Agent_c]

Just do what Leeds does !

This might be news to you, but York isn't Leeds. It has different people, different trains, and is in a different place.

Sometimes, and dare I say it, most of the time, its better for the problem not to happen at all, rather than arrest everyone afterwards after someone has been arrested, thrown in front of a train, or worse.

 

[StarCrossing]

I don't know for sure, but I have a suspiscion there must be a prize offered in the North East, for the first stag/hen or birthday party to drink York dry on a Saturday.

Very nicely put!

 

[Moonshot]

Perhaps the solution is to hand down sentences to those who drink too much and become violent or abusive which act as a deterent to others, fines into £1000's or long prison terms, rather than affecting people who are going to enjoy a drink and not bother other people.

I feel that there something inherently wrong in punishing the majority because of a minority who abuse society, deal with the minority in way which means that others who may consider acting in a similar manner dont as the 'crime is not worth the time'. And if they dont learn the lesson the first time get them off the streets for a substantial tme, years if they have abused staff.

Maybe a " 3 strikes and your out " policy? With a mandatory sentence to follow?.

 

[Hartington]

The south is by no means immune from such issues. The last train from Weymouth towards Yeovil, Castle Cary etc is dry on Saturday nights.

 

[yorkie]

I spent a night in York as part of my holiday a couple of years ago. Lying on my bed in my hotel room in the early evening, I heard the sounds of what sounded like a full-scale riot in the streets outside.
Venturing outside, I found that this was basically correct - the 'yoof' of York (and I suspect the countryside for miles around) disporting themselves on a Friday night. Broken glass underfoot everywhere, blokes arguing with their girlfriends, females slapping each other about, even a guy chucking a woman's crutches at her in the kebab shop.
I don't know about GB as a whole, but York has a serious problem with the booze...

It's more caused by people who end up on trains to places like Doncaster, Eaglescliffe, Thornaby, Hartlepool, Newcastle etc. rather than locals, but you get people with such problems from almost anywhere.

Travelling to York on a Saturday to get drunk has become 'a thing' for many people from numerous towns in recent years.

Incidentally, I was at York on Saturday night. We only missed seeing yorksrob by about 5 minutes, but we did see gimmea50anyday! I often see Wensley at York on a Saturday night but didn't see him this time.

I wouldn't like to have to work in such conditions (I have to deal with troublesome people but at least they're not drunk!), and if a necessary sacrifice is not having a drink then I don't see that as a problem (sorry Rob!)

 

[Andyh82]

I pity the poor train and bus crews who have to ferry this lot home every weekend...

The Northern crews will be thankful though, if they work the York to Blackpool North train, it could be worse, they could be crewing a train departing from the other end.

York also has a recurring issue of people having had too much to drink in the river side bars and jumping in the Ouse, despite these acts being fatal in the past.

 

[satisnek]

We have a troll - I hope.

Erm, no. It's a simple statement of fact, although whether it's a 'vice' is a matter of opinion.

Use of the 'T' word is a sure sign of having lost the argument.

 

[DarloRich]

What annoys me with these threads is the busybody, puritanical, temperance league views many posters seem to hold against anyone who has the audacity to go for a night out with friends, travel by train and dares to have a drink. Live and let live

That doesn't deny there is an issue in York with people going for a night out, but it is no worse or better than many other cities. Why cant York deal with that when Leeds, Newcastle, Manchester et al can?

 

[wensley]

The measures at York are a joint TOC/BTP initiative to tackle known issues with drunken ASB on the station and trains, which has become a real issue in recent years as York has been an increasingly popular as a destination for day-tripping drinkers, stag and hen-dos in addition to the usual race meets etc.

The dry station isn't ideal for those who are happy to quietly enjoy a couple of drinks on their journey, but for a few hours on one day of the week it's got to be worth it for the safety of all concerned - those few pints can be the difference between volatile groups remaining (relatively) sensible or tipping over the edge on the journey home.

Plus, it's the most effective means to enforce dry trains to those destinations that have the biggest issues on a Saturday evening.

I've no problem with people going out and having a drink, but why people can't stop when they've clearly had enough and act sensibly in public is beyond me.

If people think there isn't much of a problem at York on a Saturday evening then I would gladly invite them to observe for a few weekends!

I often see Wensley at York on a Saturday night but didn't see him this time.

I managed to get a flyer! Had been in since the AM assisting with a random revenue trick which is also part of the same BTP/TOC operation.

---

The old thread for those who wants a read:
http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=71865

 

[Agent_c]

What annoys me with these threads is the busybody, puritanical, temperance league views many posters seem to hold against anyone who has the audacity to go for a night out with friends, travel by train and dares to have a drink. Live and let live

That doesn't deny there is an issue in York with people going for a night out, but it is no worse or better than many other cities. Why cant York deal with that when Leeds, Newcastle, Manchester et al can?

I'm sure there are times and days when they ban alcohol too. Heaven forbid you head north of Carlisle when Celtic and Rangers play, you won't be getting to take your alcohol on a train then either.

They are dealing with a very real probiem. Just because you're alright doesn't mean there isn't a major social problem, not to say a safety problem. I'm sure such a measure was only decided upon when there was no other alternative given the situation on the ground.

And quite frankly, if you're going to go to the point of creating straw men out of your opponents by calling them busybodies, puritanical, or pro temperance, then you've already by definition admitted you've lost the argument, but wont give up being angry that we dare maybe keep someone safe, and a driver without nightmares of running over someone.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

I wasnt actually on duty when I bumped into YORKIE as I was off to a family birthday in Stockport, but I was glad to see the behaviour of the drunks was quite reasonable.

Newcastle is pretty much the same. Barriers are often on and security and BTP stopping and searching if necessary, and it's not only the 20:43 VTEC that's dry but the last Carlisle is as well. The dry ban needs extending to the 21:55 TPE which is like a meat market as far as Darlington at least

 

[DarloRich]

I'm sure there are times and days when they ban alcohol too. Heaven forbid you head north of Carlisle when Celtic and Rangers play, you won't be getting to take your alcohol on a train then either.

Thanks - I am quite aware how Glasgow works on Old Firm days. That situation there is only about 20 times as bad as the situation in York.

They are dealing with a very real probiem. Just because you're alright doesn't mean there isn't a major social problem, not to say a safety problem. I'm sure such a measure was only decided upon when there was no other alternative given the situation on the ground.

A more real problem than everywhere else in the country? How are these issues dealt with elsewhere and why is York unable or perhaps unwilling to deal with this problem?

I have lived in many cities (including York) and don't believe York is any more of a problem than elsewhere. What learning can they take from other, bigger cities, who have groups of people visit for a Saturday night out and why aren't they doing so?

It isn't the "dry station/dry train" descion that I am concerned about.The "dry station/ train idea" seems like a sensible way to treat the symptoms but does nothing to treat the cause of any issues.

I am more concerned the view that several posters (the majority?) take on this board that anyone daring to go for a night out, have a drink and then having the audacity to dare use the train to get home is beneath contempt. God forbid you might seek to travel to genteel York from such savage places as Middlesbrough, Darlington or Doncaster for a night out :roll:

And quite frankly, if you're going to go to the point of creating straw men out of your opponents by calling them busybodies, puritanical, or pro temperance, then you've already by definition admitted you've lost the argument, but wont give up being angry that we dare maybe keep someone safe, and a driver without nightmares of running over someone.

My point is that there are posters on this board and on this topic in particular who seem happy to judge others for their choices in life, perhaps without the life experience of those they judge.

The dry ban needs extending to the 21:55 TPE which is like a meat market as far as Darlington at least

It was worse when there was a stupid o clock back from Newcastle to Darlo. Always a good opportunity for making new female friends

Do they still double man the last one south? There were bouncers and BTP the last time I traveled.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Whilst like other forum members I enjoy a pint from time to time (preferably from a hand pump) I really don't understand why when faced with a long train journey people don't just bring something to read instead of relying on alcohol to pass the time. In particular buying a book to read on the train (or even more so a newspaper) may well work out to be the cheaper option and won't have the same affect on your health.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

.

It was worse when there was a stupid o clock back from Newcastle to Darlo. Always a good opportunity for making new female friends

Do they still double man the last one south? There were bouncers and BTP the last time I traveled.

The 02:10. Before Newcastle depot was established the train was double manned by york crews at Newcastle as a revenue exercise. Both standing by the local door checking and selling tickets before boarding. While one was booked to work the train The second conductor actually worked the 06:11 service. Once Newcastle depot was set up the 06:11 became a Newcastle turn as did the 07:33 while the 02:10 was cut back to start at York. The hassle being not worth the income, plus the train fresh off depot would be trashed by Darlington of pizza, kebab, vomit and urine, yet still expected to take people to and fro all day but often needed swapping out for cleaning at some point due to the mess.

The Saturday 21:55 isn't double manned as such, but sometimes an on call manager accompanies the traincrew as additional eyes/backup

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

To those who are "outraged" by the concept of the railway declaring certain trains/stations to be "dry" at certain times I can only say that you have never been caught up in the middle of the problems that genuinely arise on a regular basis. And while I agree it's a shame that responsible drinkers may feel their enjoyment is being curtailed slightly it's also inevitable, given both the size and frequency of these problems, that the railway as a whole has to take such steps as it is able to mitigate them to some degree. Perhaps some have forgotten the horrendous issues that London Midland was having on Fridays and Saturdays with drinkers from stations north of Crewe going into Liverpool which eventually resulted in what amounted to returning passengers being subjected to security checks before being allowed to board at Lime Street.

There is clearly a wider social issue with binge drinking. Like it or not some of it arises from people having more disposable income than in times past. And some younger people feel the need to party every weekend; seemingly they get bored with their home town and decide to travel "away" for variety's sake leading to larger towns and cities filling up with the party people. As for why York is such a problem I recall the apocryphal cricketing tale: York has within its city walls 365 pubs and Freddie Truman (RIP) was (allegedly) banned from every single one of them! Proximity of drinking establishments is a significant factor which is being made worse by the on-going long-term trend in retailing, namely that town centre locations are closing as shops and some then re-opening as bars. But I can't see any council ever taking any measures against this.

 

[Robertj21a]

We have a national problem with alcohol abuse and, like alcoholics themselves, too many people deny the problem. We waste critical resources in hospitals, and the Health Service in general, treating people who think it amusing to get so drunk that they need help and have younger generations assuming that's a normal way to live.

I can see alcohol being banned from all public transport in years to come.

 

[yorksrob]

Whilst like other forum members I enjoy a pint from time to time (preferably from a hand pump) I really don't understand why when faced with a long train journey people don't just bring something to read instead of relying on alcohol to pass the time. In particular buying a book to read on the train (or even more so a newspaper) may well work out to be the cheaper option and won't have the same affect on your health.

But that would mean missing out on the window gazing.

 

[DarloRich]

To those who are "outraged" by the concept of the railway declaring certain trains/stations to be "dry" at certain times I can only say that you have never been caught up in the middle of the problems that genuinely arise on a regular basis. And while I agree it's a shame that responsible drinkers may feel their enjoyment is being curtailed slightly it's also inevitable, given both the size and frequency of these problems, that the railway as a whole has to take such steps as it is able to mitigate them to some degree.

I am not outraged by it. I understand why it is done, however I still maintain it merely treats a symptom transferred from "outside" the railway rather than the cause.

Perhaps some have forgotten the horrendous issues that London Midland was having on Fridays and Saturdays with drinkers from stations north of Crewe going into Liverpool which eventually resulted in what amounted to returning passengers being subjected to security checks before being allowed to board at Lime Street.

Perhaps I don't live in as sheltered a world as other posters as your horrendous issues didn't seem that bad when i traveled. Yet above you indicate you support these restrictions. Are they only appropriate when they don't inconvenience you? Perhaps people ought to be banned from travelling away form their homes.

There is clearly a wider social issue with binge drinking. Like it or not some of it arises from people having more disposable income than in times past.

So pay people less is your answer? :roll: It is odd no one seems to want to look at WHY there is an issue with binge drinking.

And some younger people feel the need to party every weekend;seemingly they get bored with their home town and decide to travel "away" for variety's sake leading to larger towns and cities filling up with the party people.

God how awful, those terrible young people going for a night out. They should know their place and stay there :roll: People go out for a drink with their mates, to have a nice day out, try and pull, have a few drinks and a laugh. is that so awful?

As for why York is such a problem I recall the apocryphal cricketing tale: York has within its city walls 365 pubs and Freddie Truman (RIP) was (allegedly) banned from every single one of them!

Personally I blame Hedley Verity for the drink problems in Yorkshire but each to their own.

Proximity of drinking establishments is a significant factor which is being made worse by the on-going long-term trend in retailing, namely that town centre locations are closing as shops and some then re-opening as bars. But I can't see any council ever taking any measures against this.

I don't think that situation is any different in Leeds or Manchester or Newcastle etc. Why is York special?

We have a national problem with alcohol abuse and, like alcoholics themselves, too many people deny the problem. We waste critical resources in hospitals, and the Health Service in general, treating people who think it amusing to get so drunk that they need help and have younger generations assuming that's a normal way to live.

I can see alcohol being banned from all public transport in years to come.

Perhaps we should just ban it entirely. Although there are many other things that "waste critical resources in hospitals, and the Health Service in general" so they best go at the same time. Hopefully none that you enjoy.

 

[yorksrob]

I can see alcohol being banned from all public transport in years to come.

A move that should be heavily resisted as far as I'm concerned.

 

[DarloRich]

The 02:10. Before Newcastle depot was established the train was double manned by york crews at Newcastle as a revenue exercise. Both standing by the local door checking and selling tickets before boarding. While one was booked to work the train The second conductor actually worked the 06:11 service. Once Newcastle depot was set up the 06:11 became a Newcastle turn as did the 07:33 while the 02:10 was cut back to start at York. The hassle being not worth the income, plus the train fresh off depot would be trashed by Darlington of pizza, kebab, vomit and urine, yet still expected to take people to and fro all day but often needed swapping out for cleaning at some point due to the mess.

The Saturday 21:55 isn't double manned as such, but sometimes an on call manager accompanies the traincrew as additional eyes/backup

thanks - i had assumed it was double manned as a rule. Perhaps it should be! I also assumed the early am train went to the depot before morning service.

 

[al78]

Perhaps I don't live in as sheltered a world as other posters as your horrendous issues didn't seem that bad when i traveled. Yet above you indicate you support these restrictions. Are they only appropriate when they don't inconvenience you? Perhaps people ought to be banned from travelling away form their homes.


So pay people less is your answer? :roll: It is odd no one seems to want to look at WHY there is an issue with binge drinking.


God how awful, those terrible young people going for a night out. They should know their place and stay there :roll: People go out for a drink with their mates, to have a nice day out, try and pull, have a few drinks and a laugh. is that so awful?


Perhaps we should just ban it entirely. Although there are many other things that "waste critical resources in hospitals, and the Health Service in general" so they best go at the same time. Hopefully none that you enjoy.

You should start a scarecrow selling business with all the strawmen you are erecting here. :roll:

 

[DarloRich]

You should start a scarecrow selling business with all the strawmen you are erecting here. :roll:

Eh? or you could try to offer an alternative view. Perhaps comment is only acceptable if it meets with the approval of the majority?