43096
On Moderation
- Joined
- 23 Nov 2015
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It is if they are delivered years late and are riddled with faults.The delivery of 2,600 vehicles isn't failure.
It is if they are delivered years late and are riddled with faults.The delivery of 2,600 vehicles isn't failure.
A quarter of them are four years late and still don't work properly. That's not the best advertThe delivery of 2,600 vehicles isn't failure.
As far as I know today's Aventra hasn't lost any tenders it's been entered for (the Thameslink bid was an earlier version subsequently redesigned).No its not but building some of them to such a poor quality that no one wants to order more is failure.
They do work, 345's, 710's, 720's and the 730's that have been introduced work. It's SWR's management that doesn't appear to work.A quarter of them are four years late and still don't work properly. That's not the best advert
But was mostly due to having to sort shorter cabs during COVID and the bad discussion to outsource software to save costs.No its not but building some of them to such a poor quality that no one wants to order more is failure.
Other countries have created successful export industries. Why are we so uniquely bad at it?The worst part is the government refuses to give up and keeps chasing the illusive export orders - ironically making decisions that weaken the domestic potential for the industry.
We chose the AGR over the SGHWR because it was considered to have more export potential, but it never sold a reactor abroad and we ended up with an operationally inferior nuclear fleet.
Or just buying the CANDU as was originally proposed.
Then there is this whole mess, we've created a mess of train producers, none of which is able to truly compete with manufacturers abroad.
Or spread out 15x replacement orders so the UK factories have a steady stream of work over several years, rather than another "boom and bust".Surely got to add to that other 15x units at other TOCs (EMR, GWR and SWR), not just the ones at Northern? Makes little sense replacing the Northern ones and none of the others - beneficial to replace them all in one go.
For trains there are different requirements in other countries, it must be possible to get some flexibility in UK factories to economically produce trains for export (as in the past). But the market is getting competitive.Other countries have created successful export industries. Why are we so uniquely bad at it?
Because we don't support them, other countries visibly ignore things like EU procurement rules, but we never do. Then you have shareholders who are only interested in short-term money making, and not investing for the future etc. Can anyone imagine France letting its last steelworks close?Other countries have created successful export industries. Why are we so uniquely bad at it?
Survivorship bias, we only hear about the ones that succeed.Other countries have created successful export industries. Why are we so uniquely bad at it?
For other European countries, they can deliver rolling stock by rail from the factory to a port or customer. From British factories, they would have to go by road... Whilst the track gauge is the same across most of Europe , the loading gauge isn't.Or spread out 15x replacement orders so the UK factories have a steady stream of work over several years, rather than another "boom and bust".
Ideally there should be an Aventra prototype version of the fast charge battery 230 train testing on various lines.
For trains there are different requirements in other countries, it must be possible to get some flexibility in UK factories to economically produce trains for export (as in the past). But the market is getting competitive.
We have higher expectations for pay than we can afford in a global market.Other countries have created successful export industries. Why are we so uniquely bad at it?
Yes I did indeed mean to spread out the orders - I meant my comment more to get the order to cover all the 15x in one go.Or spread out 15x replacement orders so the UK factories have a steady stream of work over several years, rather than another "boom and bust".
I think there’d be a few Brendas from Bristol under that systemMajor decisions, such as building new alpine tunnels, are also taken by referendum, not by the Prime Minister of the day and his advisors.
From what I can see, individual referenda are included in the regular election cycle, so you vote for multiple issues on the same day as electing a government.I think there’d be a few Brendas from Bristol under that system
NB: that’s the woman who said “not another one [general election]!” ahead of the 2017 election .
UK exports plenty of manufactured goods; $40bn of cars (JLR, Nissan, MINI, Aston Martin/McLaren/Bentley/Rolls Royce in smaller volumes); $30bn of jet engines (Rolls Royce), medicines (loads of manufacturers), and, leaving aside oil and traded gold, whiskey!Other countries have created successful export industries. Why are we so uniquely bad at it?
I don't think so. We need to buy 400-500 vehicles a year and Litchurch Lane is capable of 300-400 per year, so really there's a market for maybe two factories (plus Siemens building tube trains).Is it possible to create a steady stream of work for four factories?
I'm guessing either a steady stream for fewer, maybe, but still very hard to organise within procurement regulations.
My bold. Sticking to procurement from solely UK factories would not fit the competition rules but we could then threaten to buy from abroad if the bids from UK factories are not competitive enough. Stadler Flirt anybody ? - hmmmm.UK exports plenty of manufactured goods; $40bn of cars (JLR, Nissan, MINI, Aston Martin/McLaren/Bentley/Rolls Royce in smaller volumes); $30bn of jet engines (Rolls Royce), medicines (loads of manufacturers), and, leaving aside oil and traded gold, whiskey!
(Plus a lot of aircraft parts such as Airbus wings, F-35 rear fuselages, A220 wings and lots of other parts)
Historically we've exported few trains as the British loading guage is rather smaller than that used elsewhere in the world.
I don't think so. We need to buy 400-500 vehicles a year and Litchurch Lane is capable of 300-400 per year, so really there's a market for maybe two factories (plus Siemens building tube trains).
Might one british problem be the one-time policy of creating massive 'national champions', meaning that if one company fails, the entire industry goes with it?Survivorship bias, we only hear about the ones that succeed.
There is a long list of failed attempts that noone outside that country ever hears about.
In addition, countries that succeed often don't set out to chase exports, it happens organically.
I doubt it, given that most countries that have suceeded also have 'National Champions'.Might one british problem be the one-time policy of creating massive 'national champions', meaning that if one company fails, the entire industry goes with it?
GEC made profits in excess of £1 billion per year at its peak in the 1990s.Might one british problem be the one-time policy of creating massive 'national champions', meaning that if one company fails, the entire industry goes with it?
Yes, and GEC effectively bankrupted itself by overpaying around $1.5bn for FORE systems and other acquisitions in cash rather than paper, at the height of the dot-com bubble.GEC made profits in excess of £1 billion per year at its peak in the 1990s.
Unscrupulous investors then broke it up for cash rather than long term growth.
Plus they wanted out of the loss-making GEC-Alsthom JV so they could invest in defence for US sales.GEC made profits in excess of £1 billion per year at its peak in the 1990s.
Unscrupulous investors then broke it up for cash rather than long term growth.
And we do export buses too. This week Wrightbus announced an order for 46 hydrogen buses from GermanyUK exports plenty of manufactured goods; $40bn of cars (JLR, Nissan, MINI, Aston Martin/McLaren/Bentley/Rolls Royce in smaller volumes); $30bn of jet engines (Rolls Royce), medicines (loads of manufacturers), and, leaving aside oil and traded gold, whiskey!
(Plus a lot of aircraft parts such as Airbus wings, F-35 rear fuselages, A220 wings and lots of other parts)
Thats not an easy comparison as Wright Bus are based in Northern Ireland. Is there still a slightly different trade arrangement towards the EU ? I don't know. I struggle to keep up with everything.And we do export buses too. This week Wrightbus announced an order for 46 hydrogen buses from Germany
To contrast with the Nuclear Industry's AGR experience, Wrightbus didn't force the purchase of nothing but left hand drive buses to improve the chance of export orders!And we do export buses too. This week Wrightbus announced an order for 46 hydrogen buses from Germany
[pedant alert] I think you'll find that the product we export is whisky!leaving aside oil and traded gold, whiskey!
Quite a few of the German and Swiss bus buyers have had enough of certain German bus builders (including notably MAN based products) and have been looking else where and Alexander Dennis has been doing moderately well as result.Wrightbus didn't force the purchase of nothing but left hand drive buses to improve the chance of export orders!
Because we don't support them, other countries visibly ignore things like EU procurement rules, but we never do. Then you have shareholders who are only interested in short-term money making, and not investing for the future etc. Can anyone imagine France letting its last steelworks close?