Class 387 to GN

[physics34]

All of them.

Are they actually needed.... ? considering they will be replaced in a couple of years anyway.

 

[traji00]

Are they actually needed.... ? considering they will be replaced in a couple of years anyway.

They (and GN's 321s) may provide a temporary peak enhancement until the new trains arrive.

(Open for correction)

 

[Mordac]

Are they actually needed.... ? considering they will be replaced in a couple of years anyway.

No idea. Clearly someone at Abellio thought so at one point, but then they were only meant to be getting less 321s than the 10 they have now. So the plans may have changed at some point, but if they did, it didn't come out anywhere in the press. Hence my wondering if this is still happening or not.

 

[D365]

Peak service enhancement and covering for refurbishment is why the additional units have been bought in I believe...

 

[jopsuk]

Theres still at least one pair out and about - was on one of the Royston peak extras one morning this week

my train was a pair, in the "swap the doors to red and it's the GA livery" colour scheme, and there was at least one in FCC colours at Hornsey

 

[notverydeep]

Nearly the end​? This morning 2R35, the 0835 Letchworth to King's Cross is 387s 119 and 114. This is (or was) one of the two remaining 317 diagrams. Does anyone​ know if this means that the 317s no longer have any diagrammed work? If so, they haven't quite finished as 3R41, an ECS from King's Cross to Letchworth was a pair of 317s.

 

[bramling]

Catching a Cambridge Express today, sort of expected a 387... got a 317x2.

Won't be long before 387s appear on the Cambridge and Kings Lynn service.

From a cursory glance through the diagrams, the May timetable looks like this:

* If my counting is correct there appears to be an increase of 2x diagrams compared to the 317/321/365 days.

* Everything to Kings Lynn appears booked for 387s, with no length enhancements as far as I can tell. Unless I've missed anything there's no 365 work north of Ely nor stabling at Kings Lynn as far as I can see. It will be hard for 365s to reach Kings Lynn as so many diagrams involve dividing or joining, although apart from this presumably there's no technical reason why not.

* Ely gains heavily, with the hourly KX-Cambridge fast service extended to Ely, mostly 8-car throughout, a mix of 365 or 387.

* The hourly KX-Cambridge stopping service is generally extended to Cambridge North (or occasionally Ely) throughout most of the daytime, a mix of 1x365 or 1x387.

* The semi-fast Cambridge and Peterborough services (XX22 and XX52) are a mix of 365s and 387s, with 365s being marginally in the majority. A few further off-peak journeys increase to 8-car, although this appears to be more for diagramming convenience as this generally involves lightly-loaded services. Most off-peak journeys are thus 2x365 or 2x387, although there are exceptions especially contra-flow in/around the morning peak, and late evening.

* Many peak Royston, Cambridge and Peterborough services have reverted from 387 to 365. Excellent! There are still some 387s in there though, and not just the SDO services.

* An extra service, 1T88 0608 KX to Cambridge North, which appears to be mainly a positioning move to get the units north from Hornsey.

* This timetable isn't getting any improvements as a result of SDO. All the London-Cambridge (now North) stopping services (XX04) are generally 4 cars only still, a mix of 365 or 387. Likewise the evening XX04 and XX52 services which stop at Meldreth, Shepreth and Foxton remain 4 cars only, mainly 1x387 as far as I can see. The 3x morning peak 2x387 services remain, although the remainder of their diagrams alter.

* A handful of middle-of-day London to Peterborough XX34 services and their corresponding return workings are lengthened from 4 to 8 cars, mainly 2x365. Again these appear to be mainly for diagramming convenience, but will prove useful for passengers travelling into town from the likes of Welwyn GC and Hatfield, especially those who can vary their travel time to suit. Unfortunately this doesn't include some of the busier services, and there still some 1x387 services in the middle-of-day period.

* The two busiest 4-car services (1C49 0756 Cambridge to KX and 2T26 1653 KX to Cambridge North) remain 4 cars, but change from 1x387 to 1x365. A marginal improvement.

* Much less difference on Fridays evenings compared to the Monday-Thursday timetable. The two extra services are simply formed from incoming trains which would otherwise go ECS from King's Cross to Hornsey.

* There are a few 365 diagrams which work as pairs or triples throughout, and are thus readily suitable for conversion to Undesirable Sh*tty operation.

All-in-all, looks not a bad timetable, and an improvement for some services who no longer suffer from the 387s reduction in seating and overall capacity. However, this issue simply transfers to the Cambridge and Kings Lynn fast services, as again 387s are replacing 365s with no length increase at this time. Likewise I can't see any peak-time improvements for London commuters arising from the increase from 25x317/321 to 29x387, any improvement seems to centre around the Cambridge-Ely area. A slight increase in the number of spare units should improve reliability however, as will a slight reduction in the number of joins/divides at King's Cross.

 

[MikePJ]

* This timetable isn't getting any improvements as a result of SDO. All the London-Cambridge (now North) stopping services (XX04) are generally 4 cars only still, a mix of 365 or 387. Likewise the evening XX04 and XX52 services which stop at Meldreth, Shepreth and Foxton remain 4 cars only, mainly 1x387 as far as I can see.

Thanks for the update!

I wasn't expecting any use of 8-car trains (even with SDO) at Meldreth, Shepreth and Foxton until the platform extensions on the Cambridge-bound side have been completed, which aren't due until "the autumn" (details here: http://www.thameslinkprogramme.co.uk/villageplatforms).

 

[Ianno87]

* This timetable isn't getting any improvements as a result of SDO. All the London-Cambridge (now North) stopping services (XX04) are generally 4 cars only still, a mix of 365 or 387. Likewise the evening XX04 and XX52 services which stop at Meldreth, Shepreth and Foxton remain 4 cars only, mainly 1x387 as far as I can see.

The platform extensions at Shepreth and Foxton won't be ready for the May timetable change, so Cambridge stoppers will have to remain as 4-cars at least until these are done (later in the year, I think?). The diagrams *might* be designed in such a way that they can be converted to 8-car with only minimal timetable alteration.

 

[bramling]

The platform extensions at Shepreth and Foxton won't be ready for the May timetable change, so Cambridge stoppers will have to remain as 4-cars at least until these are done (later in the year, I think?). The diagrams *might* be designed in such a way that they can be converted to 8-car with only minimal timetable alteration.

Unfortunately I don't think that's the case - many are 365 for a start. Furthermore, I'm not sure there would actually be enough units to allow this to be done. The daytime Welwyn stablers have been reduced and nothing now stables at Cambridge during the afternoon. Everything else goes into Hornsey and is thus available for maintenance - bear in mind virtually all of the GN outer-suburban fleet stables at the country end overnight, where only light maintenance/cleaning can happen. One presumes the 387s require less maintenance than 317s/321s.

 

[D365]

One presumes the 387s require less maintenance than 317s/321s.

Absolutely, I believe one of the key specifications for the Class 387 was that they had to achieve a miles per technical incident (MTN) figure which was double that of previous Electrostars. Something like 80,000 MTN.

 

[MrTurbostar170]

Nearly the end​? This morning 2R35, the 0835 Letchworth to King's Cross is 387s 119 and 114. This is (or was) one of the two remaining 317 diagrams. Does anyone​ know if this means that the 317s no longer have any diagrammed work? If so, they haven't quite finished as 3R41, an ECS from King's Cross to Letchworth was a pair of 317s.

I was at St Neots & Huntingdon today and saw a pair of 387's out.

 

[Ianno87]

317s out tonight on the 1714 Kings X-Ely, plus another pair waiting to leave Hornsey as I passed about 1725.

 

[philjo]

Nearly the end​? This morning 2R35, the 0835 Letchworth to King's Cross is 387s 119 and 114. This is (or was) one of the two remaining 317 diagrams. Does anyone​ know if this means that the 317s no longer have any diagrammed work? If so, they haven't quite finished as 3R41, an ECS from King's Cross to Letchworth was a pair of 317s.

The 17:14 from Kings Cross to Ely was 2x317 this evening.

 

[GW43125]

Apologies if I've missed something, but what's the net gain in units from the 317/321 days to now having the 387s?

 

[D365]

Apologies if I've missed something, but what's the net gain in units from the 317/321 days to now having the 387s?

25x Class 317/321 goes up to 29x Class 387/1, though as said above the Electrostars are far more reliable by design, and they won't be the long-term replacements for what was the 317/321-operated services.

 

[adamedwards]

When do we first see a class 700 in service on GN? One x 8 car then releases 2 x 4 to lengthen more trains. Well I assume that's the plan?

 

[bramling]

When do we first see a class 700 in service on GN? One x 8 car then releases 2 x 4 to lengthen more trains. Well I assume that's the plan?

Unfortunately the plan may well be One x 8 car then causes 2 x 365 to be stored. Sadly.

 

[Hadders]

Unfortunately the plan may well be One x 8 car then causes 2 x 365 to be stored. Sadly.

I think you're right

 

[D365]

Is there a specific date by which the 21 "currently spare" units have to be taken out of service?

 

[bramling]

Is there a specific date by which the 21 "currently spare" units have to be taken out of service?

From an operational point of view I can't see why there would need to be one - it's not like they've currently got a future use lined up. One suspects the leasing company would be happier to have them running and earning even minimal lease revenue than paying for warm storage.

In any case, GN needs them ready & waiting for when Thameslink Programme ends up being an untenable failure and there needs to be some kind of remedial plan.

 

[Fuzzytop]

Today under train formation updates:

13:56 Cambridge to London Kings Cross due 15:20
This train is being delayed from Cambridge and is now expected to be 10 minutes late.
Will be formed of 3 coaches instead of 4. First class is declassified.
This is due to a fault on this train.

That's interesting - presuming a 387 missing a coach? Surely they haven't done the unthinkable and sent a 313 up to Cambridge!

 

[jon0844]

I've been on a 377/5 from Wimbledon to St Pancras with the last coach locked out (due to what the driver said was a major technical fault) but never saw if it was shown as 3-car (or 7-car in this case).

 

[bramling]

I've been on a 377/5 from Wimbledon to St Pancras with the last coach locked out (due to what the driver said was a major technical fault) but never saw if it was shown as 3-car (or 7-car in this case).

Can happen on any train, and doesn't have to be a fault, could just be something as simple as someone having soiled the train. The inter-car doors would be locked with a T key and the external doors similarly locked, then the rest of the train can run. I've seen it happen with 365s a few times.

 

[Ianno87]

Today under train formation updates:

13:56 Cambridge to London Kings Cross due 15:20
This train is being delayed from Cambridge and is now expected to be 10 minutes late.
Will be formed of 3 coaches instead of 4. First class is declassified.
This is due to a fault on this train.

That's interesting - presuming a 387 missing a coach? Surely they haven't done the unthinkable and sent a 313 up to Cambridge!

Highly unlikely - don't think 313s are route-cleared beyond Royston due to their shoegear.

 

[bramling]

Highly unlikely - don't think 313s are route-cleared beyond Royston due to their shoegear.

I've been on a 313 to Cambridge, on the day of the Hatfield derailment, and I think there have been very occasional visits since. It's Peterborough where the 313s are not allowed, north of St Neots if I remember rightly.

 

[D365]

It's Peterborough where the 313s are not allowed, north of St Neots if I remember rightly.

That will change though as the Class 700s also have fixed shoegear.

 

[Failed Unit]

That will change though as the Class 700s also have fixed shoegear.

The 387s still have theirs I am sure. I guess they don't count as they move.

 

[philjo]

this morning 1 x 317 turns up on the 07:12 royston to Kings cross service (though the screens and announcements said it was 8 coaches !)

as it was a 317 everyone at Letchworth still got a seat - I doubt I would have got past the door it it was a 387 ..

This evening I got the 18:07 Peterborough train from Kings Cross - 12 coach 365 instead of waiting for the 18:23 which would be 2x387 & usually very full. changed at Hitchin - the connecting Royston train a few minutes later was 2x 317 (the 17:52 from Kings cross to Royston which is usually 2x387 in recent months)

 

[Failed Unit]

In the evening peak for last 2 months the following are certain 317s (well nearly)

1723 Kings Cross to Royston.
1752 Kings Cross to Royston. (Very rarely a 317 since the last diagram reshuffle)
1758 Kings Cross to Welwyn.

Not sure if any of these have changed in the recent reshuffle.

Are 387s still banned from platform 10 in multiple? I have a feeling the 1758 will be the last to convert.

Going the other way upto 2 weeks ago the following from wgc were 317.

0704 Welwyn- London.
0844 Welwyn - London.
0859 Welwyn- london. (0834 ex Letchworth)

I believe from Gen above the 0704 and 0859 are now 387s. (Same diagram) will know for sure next week.