Class 88 UKDual & EuroDual

[CosherB]

A class 88 made its first revenue freight journey today hauling the Tesco intermodal from Daventry to Mossend.

I was most impressed to see a full load (bar one container) and no backup 68 attached.

If this carries on, especially through inclement weather, I will have to eat my words!

And partly operated on diesel! hock:

 

[leomartin125]

And partly operated on diesel! hock:

I thought Mossend had wires? Does the yard at Mossend not have wires?

 

[furnessvale]

Where on that isn't electrified?

I don't know if all sidings are wired at both ends, but where else are DRS going to test them with such a load, or even use them without it being overkill?

 

[InOban]

I thought the big advantage of the 88 is that it can switch to diesel and run into the container load/unload area. An electric-only engine requires a reception siding from which a shunter can move the train under the cranes.

 

[Sunbird24]

The 88 can operate in both modes, either singly or together and changing on the move. It's limit load is 1800 tons I understand, whether for that route or all routes I don't yet know.

 

[TimboM]

The 88 can operate in both modes, either singly or together and changing on the move. It's limit load is 1800 tons I understand, whether for that route or all routes I don't yet know.

I'm assuming the 1800 ton(nes?) limit load is for when it's running on A/C - certainly for main line running?

 

[furnessvale]

I'm assuming the 1800 ton(nes?) limit load is for when it's running on A/C - certainly for main line running?

I think it has the same tractive effort in diesel as well as electric mode so in theory it can shift the same load. However it may top Shap at 2mph! and only then if the rails stay dry!

 

[TimboM]

I think it has the same tractive effort in diesel as well as electric mode so in theory it can shift the same load. However it may top Shap at 2mph! and only then if the rails stay dry!

Ah ok - but in reality the diesel tractive effort would be adequate/suitable for shunting/moving a big load like the Tesco train in/out of an un-electrified yard and then the electric is suited to hauling it up Shap/Beattock etc.

 

[furnessvale]

Ah ok - but in reality the diesel tractive effort would be adequate/suitable for shunting/moving a big load like the Tesco train in/out of an un-electrified yard and then the electric is suited to hauling it up Shap/Beattock etc.

Correct, although I still think the diesel side is being oversold as MORE than a last mile unit.

It will be handy when the wires come down and it can take a diversion, albeit at a reduced speed.

 

[TimboM]

Correct, although I still think the diesel side is being oversold as MORE than a last mile unit.

It will be handy when the wires come down and it can take a diversion, albeit at a reduced speed.

The fuel capacity/consumption will be interesting too. No doubt its diesel engine will be very efficient, but I'm assuming it doesn't have huge fuel tanks given what else needs to fit in the loco and the fact its diesel capability is designed for that "last mile(ish)".

If it was trying to shift the Tesco train, for example, I expect the mpg would be pretty high (even with a modern efficient engine) - so would be interested to know what the range would be. I'm guessing a reasonable diversion as you suggest wouldn't be a problem, but possibly could go on for hundreds of miles?

 

[furnessvale]

The fuel capacity/consumption will be interesting too. No doubt its diesel engine will be very efficient, but I'm assuming it doesn't have huge fuel tanks given what else needs to fit in the loco and the fact its diesel capability is designed for that "last mile(ish)".

If it was trying to shift the Tesco train, for example, I expect the mpg would be pretty high (even with a modern efficient engine) - so would be interested to know what the range would be. I'm guessing a reasonable diversion as you suggest wouldn't be a problem, but possibly could go on for hundreds of miles?

I think Vossloh are insisting it is more than last mile.

At least in a wires down situation it can drag the train to a place of safety, either back under working OHLE or somewhere a full size diesel can join it.

 

[TimboM]

I think Vossloh are insisting it is more than last mile.

At least in a wires down situation it can drag the train to a place of safety, either back under working OHLE or somewhere a full size diesel can join it.

I'm sure we'll find out soon enough given the propensity for overhead wires to come down!

 

[Sunbird24]

It has an 1800 litre fuel tank so way more than the norm of c250 litres of most last mile designs. I would not be surprised to see them on some nuclear workings in the future. TPE expressed an interest in them but they would not be able to provide train services and maintain most schedules away from the wires.

 

[apk55]

The maximum load that a loco can haul depends on the maximum up gradient and the locos maximum tractive effort. If a loco can not restart a train on the steepest gradient then there is a possibility of being stalled and stuck requiring assistance. Lesser loads may be specified where there is a timing requirement. As the tractive effort is the same for the both diesel and electric modes then the load would be the same.

 

[37038]

1650ton load on the train. Operated in electric mode for most of it. Performed within the timings for the train on Shap and Beattock.

Euroterminal at Mossend isn't completely wired AFAIK and seeing as the point of the loco was to overcome such eventualities, it worked the last leg on diesel as it is able to transition on the move.

 

[TimboM]

It has an 1800 litre fuel tank so way more than the norm of c250 litres of most last mile designs. I would not be surprised to see them on some nuclear workings in the future. TPE expressed an interest in them but they would not be able to provide train services and maintain most schedules away from the wires.

Thanks for the info.

Yes, you'd think the nuclear trains would be an obvious option - the light load and a mix of electrified lines and non-electrified would cause the 88 no issues whatsoever. Also added redundancy in the event of any issue under the wires.

I have it on very good authority they won't be on TPE as you say. Never say never though (e.g. in an "emergency")...!

 

[CosherB]

Thanks for the info.

Yes, you'd think the nuclear trains would be an obvious option - the light load and a mix of electrified lines and non-electrified would cause the 88 no issues whatsoever. Also added redundancy in the event of any issue under the wires.

I have it on very good authority they won't be on TPE as you say. Never say never though (e.g. in an "emergency")...!

Indeed, however, I doubt that DRS originally envisaged their pride of the fleet being used in pairs on such a duty!

 

[TimboM]

Indeed, however, I doubt that DRS originally envisaged their pride of the fleet being used in pairs on such a duty!

It's what DRS was originally set up to do - surely the crown jewel of their operations!?

I did read somewhere the (new?) DRS boss had asked for the flasks to be 68 hauled wherever possible (i.e. instead of "classic" traction) and indeed these days it is more often than not a pair of 68s, so joking aside, DRS are clearly not averse to using their newer, more efficient/reliable locos on the flasks.

 

[CosherB]

It's what DRS was originally set up to do - surely the crown jewel of their operations!?

Deleted.

 

[CosherB]

Reported elsewhere that the 88 'failed' it's poor railhead conditions test over Beattock yesterday; a 34 minute climb with speed down to 5mph at one point. It may only have been the first indication of wet weather performance, but it doesn't sound great.

 

[TimboM]

Reported elsewhere that the 88 'failed' it's poor railhead conditions test over Beattock yesterday; a 34 minute climb with speed down to 5mph at one point. It may only have been the first indication of wet weather performance, but it doesn't sound great.

Any idea what load it was hauling?

And did it make the top (eventually)?

 

[37038]

Any idea what load it was hauling?

And did it make the top (eventually)?

38 IKAs from memory. Train length was 710m.

Yes eventually, sanding problems like 68s have so ran out almost immediately

 

[boby32]

88002 under diesel power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84o4qNAGh58

 

[ac6000cw]

88002 under diesel power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84o4qNAGh58

Wonder why it was using diesel power?

 

[159220]

No wires in the Stobart Mossend Terminal. Switches to bi-mode whilst approaching the terminal.

 

[ac6000cw]

Switches to bi-mode whilst approaching the terminal.

Do you mean diesel mode, or can the 88s take power from both OHLE and diesel at the same time?

Thanks for the info - that makes sense.

 

[gsnedders]

Do you mean diesel mode, or can the 88s take power from both OHLE and diesel at the same time?

Thanks for the info - that makes sense.

Diesel mode, hence the pantograph is down.

 

[TimboM]

Diesel mode, hence the pantograph is down.

May have been asked before, but whilst it was diesel only on this occasion, are the 88s able to have both modes providing power at once? Or is it once or the other?

 

[gsnedders]

May have been asked before, but whilst it was diesel only on this occasion, are the 88s able to have both modes providing power at once? Or is it once or the other?

I should've been more explicit: I believe it's one or the other, though wherever I read that probably isn't totally trustworthy (given the amount of technical misinformation that gets about!).

 

[TimboM]

I should've been more explicit: I believe it's one or the other, though wherever I read that probably isn't totally trustworthy (given the amount of technical misinformation that gets about!).

Indeed - that's why I was asking to see if someone can give a definitive answer on here...! You'd think it would be one or the other.